Slashdot Mirror
On Balancing Career & College...
An anonymous reader asks: "Hi folks. Some advice please - I've been in university twice already and quit both times - the first due to lack of interest in the course and the second a combination of lack of interest and work pressures. The second time round, I started a tech company and it's now three years old and doing OK. I am now seriously thinking about going back to Uni to get a degree (for real this time ;-). Is anyone out there successfully juggling running a company and studying at the same time? How do you juggle the two without hampering either due to lack of the right amount of attention?"
No one I've talked to that's gotten their degree after they've gotten their career started has regretted it.
Always going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse.
"How do you juggle the two without hampering either due to lack of the right amount of attention?"
Learn to deligate. Hardest lesson for begining CEO's to learn.
I am in a similar boat. I work 40 hours a week at night, and go to school during the day. I also like to go out once in a while, and I have a full time girlfriend.
First if you are with someone, they are going to need to understand that school and work are going to have to come pretty close to first. What this means is, you might not be able to be there all the time. (If they love you, they'll understand).
Find a mix of classes that work for you. Obviously if you are going for computer science you don't want to take 5 upper level computer science classes in the same semester. Take 1 and take a few ( 2 - 4 ) other general elective classes that you need. This should get you through the fall and spring, while knocking out your gen-ed requirements.
Then continue on with school throw the summer. This time take 2 computer science classes.
A schedule like this should get your through, while still allowing you a wee little bit of free time.
Keep in mind that you are going to live a very very structured life for the next few years as you work towards your degree. Sleep will become something you value, because you won't be able to do it as much as you'd like. Make sure you get 1 day off a week, or every 2 weeks. This is important, because it keeps you sane and the g/f happy.
Just my thoughts, and what works for me.
Never give up sleep time for study time. During sleep your mind makes the transfer to long term memory. If you are not sleeping 7 hours, you might as well not study at all that day.
And get a good outside accountant. Nothing will go wrong with your business that you cannot fix by delegating, except your in house accountant stealing from you.
So, study, sleep, delegate and don't let the mice play while you are away.
If voting were effective, it would be illegal by now.
Do a few classes a term.
The rule of thumb is 2 hours coursework for every hour in class. So figure out how much time you want to spend a week, and do those many hours/3 until you graduate.
Focus on courses you really care about -- I'm much happier now that I've left CE for political Sciene and History. I'd do this stuff anyway, now I get credit for it.
You should realize that one Liberal Arts degree is as good as another, if your passion is something that is technically useless (Philosophy, Art history) you should major in that. You'll do well, and nobody really cares what the words on the degree are.
You may be able to save time by taking courses you already know -- if your business ws web design you might want to take a course on PERL. If you already know it you'll do well without effort; and if you don't you'll be doing training you should do anyway.
In short, you should focus on the shit you'd do even if you weren't in school. I read about politics for fun, so I do PoliSci. I don't do CompSci because I've never gotten around to reading any of my dozen or so programming books. You should also manage your time wisely -- but you have a business so tyou know about that.
...and it is defined as being able to clearly remember your goal at all times. Paper chasing has it's merits...such as a higher salary than someone who didn't finish the chase.
Without it, you are doomed to a life as a semi-pro.
Pick something and stay with it. (haven't we been around this tree once already this year?)
1. Be very clear on why you are going (back) to university.
2. Where do you think you are going to get the time to stay on top of your profession while also studying?
3. Have you spoken with the professors who will be teaching the courses you would be taking? Do you already know more than they do about business and technology? If so, what do you expect to learn from them?
4. Assuming you are currently on the bleeding edge of some technical specialties, expect to be obsolete when you graduate.
5. Don't assume there will be a job waiting for you when you graduate.
6. Don't assume your current customers will still be in business when you graduate.
7. Don't assume your current business will be viable when you graduate.
I went to University in order to get a good job. Now I have one, I dream of running my own company. You have your own company which by your admission is doing OK. Ask yourself why it is you really want to go back to school for a third time. You are older and have a business to run now. What could a degree change in your situation? I could understand if you were in a job and a degree could help your career prospects, but here that does not appear to be the case.
You need to do some soul searching. Don't get caught up in intellectual snobbery where you (or other people make you) think that getting a degree is somehow going to change you as a person or change the way people look at you. Don't be ashamed if people working for you have better qualifications that you do. The bottom line is that they are working for you, not you for them!
I think the current western trend to work hard, always biting into your free time, is the wrong way to live. That's just my opinion. If you think you can run a company and go to school and still have a fulfilled life (family, home, and love is what it's really all about, not your salary) then you go ahead. I will be the first to congratulate you if you succeed. But perhaps now the thing to think about is why you feel you need a degree if you are already running your own company. Strengthen your character and your interpersonal relationships, and take some professional qualifications / courses related to your line of work if you want, but why torture yourself about going back to school?
Also, bear in mind that a lot of responses here so far are probably from college students. They think (and they are right, from their perspective right now) that school is the best thing in the world. But school is not about getting a degree, it's about getting independance and working out a number of work ethic structures, logical thought processes, prioritisations, etc. The degree is just part of the process, and the better a degree you get is due to how well you organise, communicate, and learn (in an abstract sense) to use tools at your disposal.
So if you really feel you need a degree for your own self esteem, then go for it. But don't do it to the detriment of everything else, because you may find that if you ever get the degree, that your life does not change significantly. Anyone who thinks they are better than you just because they have a degree and you don't is clearly wrong, but you may not be old enough (or they may not be) to realise it. Perhaps something else is really at the root of your problems, and you need to search your heart to find out what your life priorities really are.
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
you've quit twice allready, now your looking for a per talk about going back. I'd be willing to take a bed that you won't finish. Why are you going back? What is it going to get you?
I'm in the same boat you are, EXCEPT I'm getting my graduate degree I LIKE school. I suspect you don't and staying will be a pain for you, and unless the rewards are VERY great your going to leave again.
Good advice ... if you want to limit your opportunities for advancement and salary limits.
In the REAL WORLD, IT experience is difficult to *measure*.
In the REAL WORLD, perception matters and first impressions count.
In the REAL WORLD, HR departments look at your level of education achieved, in addition to experience. For example, this is used to set starting salaries for new hires.
In the REAL WORLD, a college/university degree is a long-term investment. Having a good job (today) is no guarantee of security -- it is a short-term, short-sighted view of the world, in an industry still experiencing layoffs.
See ya in the food stamp line!
Question why you need to go to University if you're already becoming successful. Taking your eye of the ball can be fatal to the operation of your company.
Secondly in the UK there are Open University courses which allow you to get a degree at home - You do about 90% of the work at home and attend the actual university for some workshop type courses - I'll be very surprised if there isn't an equivalent in the US (or wherever you live)
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
I just read books on what I want to learn and leave it at that.
...), and you will need to look for a job ? finding a job is definately easier with a degree. Will your children be any less hungry then because you are fulfiled today ?
That's the GOOD thing about a degree, it makes you learn some important stuff you did not want to learn. It also makes you solve problems, not just read the books for pleasure. Both are a good thing (TM).
I have nothing, along those lines, to prove to myself. I have a very successful software company and quite fulfilled.
But a degree is, in career terms, like having an insurance. What will happen if your company will fail (shit DOES happen
Working for necessity's mother.
Seriously man,
If you got the oppertunity to go back, take it. What is the nature of your business, do you have any staff you can trust to run things?
See, right now, me and all my chums are out of work, and it's been that way for a while (and not looking much better) I was a sysadmin for 7 years and was making 86k at my last sysadmin job without a degree. It was dot com times man!
The one universal thread between me and my other jobless cohorts is the lack of education. Your situation might have been different, but I chose the career path over school, as did many of my friends, but now we're beggin our families to help us out.. It's not industrious self reliance.
And damn those people with degree's that got the burger flipping jobs over us here in silicon valley. I'd take ANY job right now, I applied to the orchard supplies and the Mc Donalds, my wife doubled up, filled out applications, and applied again and STILL NO response.
It's hard as hell out there, i'm in a position where if I just had a burger flipping job, I could go back to school. Dammit.
--toq
Don't let anyone fool you. If you're rich and miserable you'll still be as unhappy as poor and miserable.
In my case, I started with computers when I was in high school and it seemed like a natural choice for college. I finished an associates degree and started working. 7 years of professional programming have taught me one thing. I hate computers. Or at least programming them. I thought long and hard and finally realized my true love is aircraft and space craft. I'm going to school part time (7 credit hours this semester) for an aerospace engineering degree while at the same time working full time as a programmer. (Oh and I'm married.)
First, decide what it is you want most to achieve happiness. Don't even start school until you decide that. Once you have, make achieving that goal your priority. Remember, we're talking about happiness here. If it means sacrificing some work here and there, it will probably be worth it in the long run.
Planetes
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promo Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitl
I'm confused. Your school seems to be offering courses on the tools of CS rather than the philosophies and theories of CS. Tools are skills to acquire in your spare time; theories are concepts to discuss and evolve, to apply through those tools.
Maybe you should consider returning to school, but reading a different subject: math, electrical engineering, physics, software engineering (if offered as distinct from the tools curriculum foisted upon you). This may not be a feasible option, depending on how focused your A-levels were. On the other hand, I went from Classical Civilization as an undergraduate to Computer Science as a graduate student, so anything is possible.
My suggestion, I guess, is follow your interests. The "useful" or productive part of university for me was less the classes and the books (although those were important), and more the discussions with my peers and professors. Through that, I learned how to learn, and how to approach complex problems. The tools just sort of arrived based on need.
I hate to say this, but I don't blame you for dropping out, based on your description of your course of study.
Good luck!
Russell
I work full time and I'm completing my second degree part-time. (My first degree was as a full-time student.) Once that is done I intend to obtain a Masters part-time as well. Clearly, I like school.
Last semester I was taking 2 courses part-time, planning my wedding, working 60+ hours a week F/T and house-hunting. It was a crazy schedule to begin with, and then when you add a psycho I had to work with and my parents driving me nuts over the wedding plans and 0 vacation time (saving it up for the honeymoon) and I nearly went insane.
I still got through it, sanity intact, so here's what you need.
Determination and Motivation.
You've said before that you've tried out school and then quit. You have to really want to do this. When everything gets hectic and crazy, the thought of quitting may look appealing. After all, in University, you're paying to work really hard -- at work, it's the other way around. Plus, when your livelihood demands more time then usual, it can be hard to push that aside to do an assignment, or keep up with the reading.
But I really love what I'm studying, and even the required non-major courses (some of which I never thought I'd enjoy) appeal to me, so the idea of quitting school never crossed my mind. (Quitting work, on the other hand...) And because I enjoy it, it's easier for me to make time for school.
Discipline.
So imagine you finish work-work for the day, and you're exhausted, and the last thing you want to do is read a textbook. Will you put it off until the next day? Procrastination is a slippery slope -- when you're tired, it's so easy to put things off, and then suddenly, you're pulling all-nighters. Now for me, all-nighters are usually very productive, but pulling too many of those is increasingly draining as you get older. It's only been 6 years since I was a F/T frosh, and already I can't sustain the same low-sleep schedule that I could then. Now I have to force myself to do things on a regular and sane schedule, get enough sleep, eat properly -- all these things help.
You've been able to start and succeed at your own business, which says that you probably have all of these within you. But the big question for you to answer is -- are you willing to apply the same determination, motivation and discipline to school?
I can spell. I just can't type.