Java Development Environments for Macintosh?

spacecowboy420 asks: "My company (with my persuasion) has decided to move from a Windows platform to a Macintosh. The issue that is slowing this move is one of software solutions - more specifically a Jave IDE and Sales Contact Management software. We have been using JBuilder and Act!. Jbuilder is available for mac but is pricey, but the real rub is we need an IDE that supports the JClass Libraries (which Jbuilder does, but we would like to consider an alternative). Act! also doesn't have a mac version, so I am in new territory when it comes to mac contact solutions. What solutions have the Slashdot community found to be the best? What are the thoughts on Power Builder (although I know it doesn't support the JClass Libraries)?."

Comments

Try Onyx

[mjpaci]

Can't help you on the JBuilder aspect of your question, but I may be of help on the contact management/sales datatbase side.

There is a product we use that is web based and very robust called Onyx.

--Mike

Re:Shouldn't you have thought of this first?

[Anonymous Coward]

JDK 1.4 for osx is in developer seeds now. Jboss , Bea, and tomcat as well as several other non gui java applications run fine (sometimes better) in the 1.3 enviroment,and many you would not run in the using the 1.4 jdk in production enviroments quite yet.We deploy our apps on several platforms (linux, OSX , windows and solaris) and I find it a joy to program (using netbeans btw.) on OSX.

netbeans...

[jeffy124]

try a look at NetBeans. Opensource'd under the Sun Public License, cross platform IDE that's written in Java and works quite well. Works for 1.3 or better.

Why is JBuilder Pricey?

[fm6]

Because it doesn't have any real competition.

Think about this. You're spending thousands to license JClass. Apparently you're doing some heavy-duty enterprise applications, so you're spending tens, maybe hundreds, of thousands on hardware, bandwidth, etc. Plus you're spending similar amounts on programmer time.

Yet now you want to skimp on the one tool you use to tie all these expensive pieces together. At most this will save you $3K per programmer. Probably a lot less. If using a less effective tool delays your project just one week, you do not come out ahead. Does this strategy make sense?

A vote for ProjectBuilder

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally, I really like ProjectBuilder for java development. PB is developed by Apple and comes free on the Dev Tools CD with Jaguar. It's primarily used for Cocoa/Carbon/Kernel projects, but also fully supports Java, and does a damn good job of it, IMO. On Windows, I use CodeWarrior for Java development. I like it, but after years of using CodeWarrior, I became a PB convert almost overnight. And Apple runs a PB interest list that the PB developers actually read and respond to on a very regular basis.

In the interest of full-disclosure, I should mention that PB doesn't have all the whiz-bang features of other Java-specific IDE's, like RAD GUI development, and the like. At least not that I'm aware of. But, personally, I've never had much use for stuff like that anyway. So, I haven't investigated what, if any, "extras" like this PB has for Java development.

My only real complaint is not with PB itself, but with Apple's slow uptake on new JVM's. I love the way java is just part of the OS. But, I hate how long it takes Apple to catch up to the latest version of the JVM. They've said that this will change. And I know that 1.4 is currently in beta. But still, 1.4 has been out for Windoze/Linux for ages. And 1.4.1 is now available (which has a slightly different class file format, and fixes some memory management issues in 1.4.0). So, when Apple does finally release 1.4, is it going to be 1.4.0 or 1.4.1? I don't know. But I sure hope they can get things more in sync than they are now.

Eclipse

[Anonymous Coward]

Eclipse is a very nice Java IDE. I think it is much much better than ProjectBuilder, mainly because the latter lacks code-completion. Eclipse works great with CVS, unit-tests, debugger, you name it.

Furthermore it is:
- 100% Free
- 100% Open Source

Although there are no builds available for macosX I know it can be done, a colleague of mine had it running on his ibook a few months ago.

Re:Shouldn't you have thought of this first?

[BitGeek]

The only ego here is yours.

Apple's VM tracks sun fairly closely... but they also have a lot of optimization that they do beyond what sun ships. Thus, Apple's releases will not coincide with Suns. And this is a Good Thing.

Its not like not using 1.4 is bad-- 1.4 is a minor update, and anyone developing java software right now really should not be requiring 1.4.

Furthermore, Apples 1.4 will likely be out soon, and will likely, once again, be the best VM on the market.

You should be happy he's leaving windows, rather than let your ego flame him for choosing mac.

Re:Learn VIM or Emacs

[bwt]

Both are far more powerful development environments than ANY IDE or any editor (sorry JEdit) and can interoperate with ANY SYSTEM YOU CAN THINK OF.

People say this kind of thing all the time. I use vi when all I have is a shell, but I do not understand why you would call them a "more powerful development" environment that something like JEdit or an IDE. How do you justify this statement?

the IDE issue.

[GOD_ALMIGHTY]

I don't know anything about Act! or how you were planning on using it with or without Java. I also can't really comment on a CRM system for Mac.

As far as JClass and an IDE go. Take your pick. I personally prefer Intellij's IDEA. You could use VIM, WebSphere Studio or NetBeans if you want. The JClass stuff is pure JavaBeans, which means you get to do drag and drop programming in any IDE's GUI builder.

Since neither IntelliJ or VIM have GUI designer's it looks like you prolly want NetBeans or JBuilder.(IntelliJ's beta releases also require JDK 1.4, so that may not work on Mac for a while.)
I personally don't like the way NetBeans works, but if your looking for a cheap solution that will allow you to use JClass in a GUI designer it's the way to go.

Quite frankly, you don't sound incredibly knowledgable about developing Java solutions. Don't take that as an insult, just an observation since you left out a lot of information pertinent to your question. Do some more research using Google next time. Most of your questions can be answered if you better understand your problem.

You can use JClass in anything you want. Import the Jar's, make sure they're on the classpath, then write the code by hand that accesses the classes and methods in your own code. The fact that they're JavaBeans allows the GUI designer to automagically load up the properties and provide you with a visual way of laying out the components and hooking them up together. Read more about JavaBeans if your interested in this. You should be writing your own JavaBeans to speed your internal development. BTW, XDoclet now supports JavaBeans, so you can generate all the extraneous classes required by IDE's from the actual Beans source code. It's pretty slick.

Stay away from Powerbuilder. I'm currently developing a J2EE solution in a Powerbuilder shop. It's a nice self-contained environment, but it doesn't integrate well with others. I have no personal experience try to do this, but the other developers on this project have been writing Powerbuilder apps around here for the past 8 years. If you don't think you'll ever have to integrate your powerbuilder apps with anything else, it's a fast and easy solution. It's also pretty powerful for data entry and reporting. Just keep in mind that after 8 years of Powerbuilder, these guys chose J2EE.

Good Luck

Re:Java is for wimps

[quintessent]

Real programmers don't even use computers. They write everything as operations on a Turing Machine language, and then run the operations with a paper and pencil.

The IDE's of Mac

[wazzzup]

Check out the O'Reilly Network here:

http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2002/04/16 /o sx_java.html

It's a quick overview of the Java IDE's available for OS X, namely IntelliJ's IDEA, Borland's JBuilder, Apple's Project Builder, the open source NetBeans/Sun's Forte, Eclipse from OTI and Jedit. The article was written in April so it may not be entirely current as to what's available but it should get you going.

Re:Shouldn't you have thought of this first?

[Daniel Dvorkin]

The Mac ships with Java 1.3 but not yet 1.4 (afaik), and for that reason is not an ideal platform for Java development. Linux, Windows and Solaris are ideal platforms -- shouldn't you look at them first?

This is obviously just an ideology game on your part, and you aren't putting your company's business needs first. You should not be in charge of IT decisions.

He doesn't say what else his business does, or what other reasons they may have for moving to Macs. It's entirely possible that Macs suit their business better than any other platform in most ways, and that this problem is one of the few downsides.

I love Macs, too, but if you have to Ask Slashdot, you are not a professional.

[yawn] I'm really sick of people ripping on Ask Slashdot. Here's a clue: if you think the people who post questions to Ask Slashdot are idiots, don't read it. I goddamn well am a professional, and you're full of shit if you think otherwise -- and while A.S. is far from the only resource I use when I have tricky questions, or even the first, it has in the past provided me with a whole lot of immensely valuable information. One of the things I like best about IT is having a wide network of knowledgeable peers who are generally very willing to share the benefits of their experience. Attitudes like yours do nothing but harm to the field as a whole.