O'Reilly Holds DRM Debate at Mac OS X Conference

suzanne writes "A panel discussion was just added to the O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference, moderated by Dan Gillmor. He and Cory Doctorow, J.D. Lasica, Victor Nemechek, and Tim O'Reilly debate the expansive, pro-customer stance on DRM built in to Mac OS X. (Oh, and in case you don't have enough toys to play with yet, the complete conference schedule is available via iCal, Apple's latest groovy app.)"

Comments

Apple...

[littlerubberfeet]

Apple should continue providing the tools to use and manipulate media, after all, isn't thatr what the mac is? a desktop multimedia machine. I hope they don't kill the functionality of the system. They are finally recovering from the Scully years, and gaining market share.

If they do go the way of the evil empire, I suppose Linux will have to do.....hopefully functional media programs like Nuendo and Maya will be ported sometime....

Re:Apple...

[pauljlucas]

...isn't that what the mac is? a desktop multimedia machine.

No, the Mac is a desktop Unix machine that, among many other things, just so happens to be good at manipulating digital content.

For mac users...

[GreyWolf3000]

...who drew back in fear at the sight of this article. There is hope ;)

Mac OS X is becoming, whether by design or by accident, a Digital Rights Management operating system where the rights in question are the user's rights--and they are expansive. Apple's Digital Hub concept continues to take shape in the OS, the add-on applications and third-party products such as EyeTV, typically enhancing the user's ability to do what he or she wants.

This makes me very pleased--if anyone finds real evidence that this is merely a pr move and that Macs will take a turn for the worse, by all means let me know a bit later on from now--I want a few hours to enjoy my bliss.

Re:For mac users...

[tupps]

This is a discussion at an O'Reilly conference, I don't think it is going to change Apple's strategy in consideration of DRM. I hope Apple continues down the same route that they followed with the iPOD, eg stick a big bright sticker on the box saying: "Don't Steal Music" It is probably just as effective as all the other measures put in place.

Re:For mac users...

[Melantha_Bacchae]

GreyWolf3000 wrote:

> This makes me very pleased--if anyone finds real
> evidence that this is merely a pr move and that
> Macs will take a turn for the worse, by all means
> let me know a bit later on from now--I want a few
> hours to enjoy my bliss.

Be at peace and enjoy your bliss. This is for real.

Steve Jobs took the occasion of Apple's recent Grammy win to make an acceptance speech that pretty much blasted the recording industry for its DRM stupidity:

"Apple strives to protect the rights of both intellectual property owners and consumers alike and believes there is a 'middle path' in digital music distribution which actively discourages the theft of music, while at the same time preserving consumers rights to manage and listen to their legally acquired music on whatever devices they own,"
Steve Jobs, 2002 Grammy Awards, as reported on http://sg.news.yahoo.com/020227/1/2jun2.html.

Jobs has been known to say that piracy is not a technological problem.

When asked what Apple was going to do with their shopping acquisitions (the various media production tools that Apple recently bought), Jobs said "democratize them".

Apple has to take this position, fight this fight, and win. Their future is at stake here: the combo of the Hollings bill and Microsoft's DRMOS patents could force Apple to pay huge licensing fees to MS or be forced out of business.

Yes, there is indeed hope. The sun with a bite out of it over Cupertino on December 14th, and the recent antics of sunspot #69 (heart shaped, then apple logo shaped, followed by a solar flare on the day Jaguar was released) are proof enough that the power that once resurrected a charred Apple sapling loves it still.

For the media sharks she has no love, only a hurricane force fury at their greed and cruelty.

On December 14, 1996, Mothra resurrected a charred Apple sapling ("Mosura", days before Apple announced Jobs' return).
On December 14, 2001, Mothra returned to see its fruit ("Gojira, Mosura, Kingu Ghidora: Daikaiju Soukougeki").
OS X Jaguar: truly the Apple of Mothra's Aqua eye.

I love my mac's but I have to agree with others

[BoomerSooner]

If apple goes the drm route all my posts lauding the PPC/OS X platform will die a quick death.

This could be the application that gives apple the needed boost from 5% to 10~15%.

Personally I'm betting on Apple. I know it's a risky venture but I believe they can grow beyond a niche market. My companies software is being developed concurrently for Apple/Linux/Windows and will be offered at the same time on all systems. It is specialized s/w that would never appear in BestBuy or Fry's but if Apple proves to be worthy (which I believe it will), my company will continue to develop products for it and support our clients using Apple. All that being said I'm still hedging my bet by developing for Windows and Linux (fyi the apple development is done in Cocoa/Java/Interface Builder, the linux development is all Java/JFC (cannot wait for 1.5 and cleaned up Swing, they really need to trash it and just start from scratch), and windows is .Net/CLR/VB/C# this is because the classes converting to C# from Java are almost identical! Lol, MS thieves).

Personally if I had to dictate to the world what to use I would say go with Mac & OS X, but choice is also a good thing (keeping the megacorps on their toes).

A typical /. comment

[mhesseltine]

Why wait? Join the penguin side now. Get away from the closed, proprietary, DRM, ??AA enforced fluff.

All kidding aside, just because a NEW mac comes out with DRM and other assorted crap, doesn't mean that your machine instantly becomes subject to the same.

Re:The first time I see a apple

[vitaboy]

Uh, excuse me, but isn't Palladium a Windows-based DRM technology? I very much doubt we'll see Palladium on the Mac. Secondly, I think the purpose of the conference is to underscore the fact that Apple is taking a PRO-CONSUMER stance with regards to DRM, from iTunes use of MP3s to the ease with which one can burn CDs and DVDs. The debate is whether Apple will continue taking this pro-consumer position or whether they'll cave in like Microsoft and Intel to the forces of the RIAA and Hollywood. At least that's how I read the announcement.

"Consumer-friendly" DRM?

[clontzman]

Yeah, Apple's DRM stance is so consumer-friendly that I deleted all the music on my iPod by -- get this -- plugging it into another Mac! No warning, no dialogue, no music.

Happened to a friend of mine too... 6 GB of music wiped out. That's not what I call user-friendly.

Re:"Consumer-friendly" DRM?

[clontzman]

Thanks, but that was the way it came out of the box. I didn't set anything. I've since changed that behavior and all's well, but that's a really stupid and destructive default behavior. How about a dialogue box: "I'm about to delete 6 GB from this iPod and replace it with the dozen or so songs in this library. Are you sure that's what you want?"

THAT's consumer-friendly DRM.

Re:"Consumer-friendly" DRM?

[sg3000]

> No warning, no dialogue, no music.

when I plug my iPod into a different Mac, I get a dialog box asking if I want to associate this iPod with this new Mac. If you click yes, it will delete all your music and then autosync with the new Mac. If you click no, you're safe. Apple's Knowledge Base has more info on this.

You must have accidentally dismissed the dialog box without really reading it.

Re:"Consumer-friendly" DRM?

[clontzman]

Actually, I had used the iPod in my PC at home via EphPod, which didn't require me to "lock" it to the computer. So when I brought it back to work, it said, "Hey, I know this iPod!" and proceeded to wipe it clean because it thought the iPod "belonged" to it.

Maybe I'm an unusual case, but it seems like the software should be a little smarter than that. At any rate, it's Apple's default sync behavior that screwed me. You could say it was "my fault," but I'm sure I'm not the only one who has made the "mistake" of thinking I could use my iPod on a Mac and a PC without having it erased without warning.

Re:"Consumer-friendly" DRM?

[clontzman]

You're missing my point. iTunes cared not what was on the device and ERASED EVERYTHING ON IT WITHOUT WARNING. Regardless of what I was doing, my opinion is that good software shouldn't wipe clean a device attached to it.

People make mistakes and it's the job of a good programmer to plan for them, I think? I mean, the same thing happened to a friend of mine, so it's not like I'm uniquely foolish here. I didn't do anything unusual with the device -- I just added music from a different computer.

Re:Apple and Gateway

[gerardrj]

AS another poster mentioned, Steve (the undeniable voice of Apple) at the Grammys stated that Apple believes consumers should control their own content while being discouraged from illegal copying. Not the word discouraged, not prevented.
Apple has put that philosophy in to action with the iPod... no DRM. You CAN get the songs from an iPod to another computer, they just don't support it, and contorted things a litte. They discouraged copying, but did not prevent it.

With Rendevous they encourage streaming version of MP3 and video sharing while generally preventing copying by default. Any two Macs with AiirPort and Redevous enables will be able to listen and watch each other's content, but unless specifically shared as a folder via the sharing panel, it will not be copyable.

So pretty much at every point where Apple has to decide between enabling or restricting consumer choice, they choose to enable consumer choice while discouraging abuse, but not eliminating it. I think this goes simply beyond just spouting a tag line.