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GNU/Hurd Gets POSIX Threads
An anonymous reader writes "Neal Walfield announced the first release of RMGPT, which is (or rather, aspires to one day be) a complete, portable implementation of IEEE Std 1003.1-2001 threads also known as POSIX threads. With this new pthreads library, it will soon be possible to run complex software packages on the Hurd, including the GNOME and KDE desktops, the OpenOffice suite, and the Mozilla web browser. Find more information here, including the humorous meaning behind RMGPT, and insight into a future Hurd release..."
Looks like the Hurd server collection is starting to lift off. Since Debian is working on Debian GNU/Hurd, and now this new ability, all the Hurd developers need is some more driver developers.
:)
If they get that Hurd will start to become a world usable kernel, and it's always good to have some competition in kernel land
What is the relationship between GNU/Hurd, Darwin and MKLinux? All is based around a Mach-kernel. Are there any familiarity between them that have any relevance? Does the continuing work on Darwin and GNU/Hurd benefit from one another, and if so, in what respect?
- Henrik
- when the Shadows descend -
Regarding the name, RMGPT, Neal explains, "Most new program names are a bunch
of letters stuck together. Only later does it become an acronym and the words
become bound. This is boring; each new release of RMGPT will offer a fresh, new and
exciting expansion of the 'acronym'." For this first release, RMGPT stands for
"Rubbish, I asked for mine with Minced Garlic, Please Take this back".
Yeah, but equally you could say "Why didn't all the Linux developers join the HURD project".
It's good to have variety. I don't care if Windows gets destroyed or not. It's rubbish, but I don't care, I don't want to see billg thrown to the lions, I just want to use softs that don't suck.
Sooner or later, we will have machines that work properly - and it might even be that the HURD is the first one to get there.
Fitness through diversity, my friend.
Justin.
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! *gasp, pant, pant* Developers! Developers! Developers!
The problem, I think, is that people really haven't taken a whole lot of interest in it so far, because in general it doesn't really do anything that Linux doesn't already do better.
On the other hand, if it's really going to be able to run modern desktop environments now, perhaps people will start taking a bit more interest in it, and then developers will start to show up. I think it's just a matter of reaching critical mass.
I won't even go into the overhead inherent in a micro kernel message passing architecture.
That, and rest, means you are not aware of the research done in the last 5 or 10 years in the field of micro-kernel, with what we called the 'second generation micro-kernels', like L4. The cost of "message-passing" (or IPC to use a correct term) can be minimised and reduced by a factor of 10. With fast IPC, a lot things become possible, that are not in monolithic kernels, and even in many micro-kernel based systems. Look at some papers on http://www.l4ka.org/publications/ for more informations.
I've always found myself intrigued by that fact that Windows NT has a POSIX subsystem. However, security folks always tell you to disable it so I've gotten the distinct impression it isn't really used for anything (I've never personally seen a program that uses it.). Now this post comes along and it becomes obvious to me that POSIX is a big deal in the UNIX-like-OS world. Did MS just screw up their implementation or is it something potentially useful that nobody happens to use? TW
Hi! I don't think any of us is working on the Hurd "because RMS says so". The Hurd already provides many things that other systems will never be able to to. I love being able to add root privileges to a running Emacs when I quickly want to edit a system, configuration file. This is possible on GNU/Hurd, as are many other cute thinks. Cheers, GNU/Wolfgang
Bottom line is that both of them and their "followers" (if this term can even be used in this context) have done a lot for free software. The RMS camp will continue to exert an important influence within the community and their work will be highly valued, but as you say "business seems to have and apathy for ideals."
Pragmatism is very important for bringing useful things into the market quickly, and naturally that is where many people are coming from. On the other hand, in the long run, ideas (and ideals) do matter.
It is important that the GPL is widely adopted, and there isn't a lot of confusion from variations on license terms, but that doesn't mean you should get religious about it. In the long run, these things will settle out, and they already are.
The microkernel ideas behind Mach and all of its derivatives are an important advance in Computer Science, and the HURD project is where these ideas are being devoloped in full. They are not ready for full scale deployment, but when they are, they will be adopted quickly. That is the beauty of a single clear Free license (GPL), because there is no reason that these two projects can't exchange large pieces of code. If the Linux team wants to pull in the HURD microkernel in a major release cycle, there is no licensing issue. The only issue is whether it make technical sense. Nobody should worry that the HURD doesn't have many drivers, since it should be possible to import drivers from Linux. In fact it should be possible to import them wholesale if the interfaces can be matched.