Posted by
CmdrTaco
on from the breaking-into-new-markets dept.
the beava writes "Palm has officially announced the release of their latest handheld, the Zire. At $99 dollars (retail), it looks like they're trying to market this thing to people like parents and children. " Not a bad looking unit for the price.
parents and children?
by
tps12
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Parents and children don't need handhelds. I was all excited about handhelds a few years ago, but these days the only people still using them are CS grad students (not that there's anything wrong with that). I only keep mine around because my watch broke. Once the novelty wears off (and it has), the ability to play Asteroids at a movie theater isn't all that great a selling point. Palm is on its way down, and PDAs will be remembered as the pet rock of the late 90's and early 00's.
--
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
Re:parents and children?
by
nullard
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
When I heard Parents I immediately thought of people that are not technically inclined.... If they are truly marketing towards Parents and Children, they are making a huge error.
Because geeks never have kids, right? Geeks never have parents for that matter either.
Here's a hint: We are all our parents' offspring and many of us will (or already do) have kids.
My stepfather uses a palm for his real estate business.
Just because it is interesting technology doesn't mean that it is dificult to use either. Dead tree organizers sell well and there are themed ones targeted towards children. I saw a Harry Potter one a few days ago. Now tell me again why someone wouldn't want an inexpensive pda?
--
t'nera semordnilap
Re:parents and children?
by
bruanor
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
I gotta say, I Completly disagree. Ive been a handheld user since the very first gen of Palm and have handed down several handhelds along the way. Any one common trait among everyone who has recieved one from me, or gotten on on my advice.. they become indespensible. They aren't the pet rocks of the 90/00's.. they are the wallets/phones/messengers/notpads of the future.
Re:parents and children?
by
Cutriss
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
Electronic shopping lists could be a real blessing for parents, specially those of young kids. Imagine putting your shopping list into your palm, then either syncing it with the grocery stores website or walking into the grocery store and beaming the shopping list to the store's computer. You can then sit at the coffee shop (more business for the store!) while someone packs your groceries for you and brings them over.
Probably won't happen, for the same reason that a lot of good things don't happen - money.
If I program my list into my PDA and sync it to the grocery store, I probably about brands enough to also record which brand of something I want. That leaves it open to interpretation. Imagine the nightmare of having to resolve vaguely shopping items with a database of similar matches...50 times (an assumed average number of items for a shopping trip).
This means that, ultimately, certain brands would likely get weeded out, as they'd lose their shelf visibility, and thus their marketability. Price would soon be the only attracting option for those purchases...and you'd probably be a lot less inclined to invest in the purchase since you probably don't know the brand name (since you were never in the store to see it).
Also, stores don't just put on sales to attract customers to shop there. Sometimes it's a calculated risk. Let's say (fake numbers) that I have a $0.20 margin on a gallon of milk. If I lower the price by $0.10, and it sells three times as much, I've still made money. Most of us have been in college before...What happens when you see "8 for a dollar" ramen noodles? You stock up, right? If you don't ever go in the store to see the prices, you'll likely be a lot less inclined toward impulse purchasing of stuff like that. Also in the impulse-purchasing category, you wouldn't see some other things in the store that you would consider purchasing, only to let it sit in your pantry or fridge.
It's unfortunate that all this is the case, of course. It's rather likely that all these boosted sales would be outweighed by the cost-savings of implementing a fully-electronic store. Logistics would be a one-time expense...you'd need fewer staff...and costs would go down. Naturally, though, the corps only see things in terms of profit and growth...
-- "Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
Re:parents and children?
by
athlon02
·
· Score: 1, Insightful
I disagree, I don't believe they're a pet rock. A PDA has the potential to be quite a few things along with what they already are: of course there's the organizer, internet, and cell phone features, then there's handheld gaming system (like a gameboy), digital photo album (partially what I use my handspring for), pager, eventually a video phone (I'm thinking something like from Zenon: Girl of the 21st Century, see here if you don't know what movie I'm talking about), a sub-notebook with gigs of space once magnetic RAM and such come out and drop in price, etc, etc.
Basically I see PDAs and laptops merging into what looks like just the LCD portion of a laptop, but that has all the ports you need to plug in peripherals, along with solid state drives (with MRAM, Flash, or whatever), plenty of RAM, and the latest and greatest processors so you can run Windows 2000/XP, MacOS X, FreeBSD, Linux, or whatever OS you want on. And of course the screen would be a touch screen with a pen so you could write documents in your own handwriting, if you so choose, or you could use your fingers with the onscreen keyboard (or plug one in if you absolutely need one). And as a matter of portability, the screen would be hinged in a few places to let you fold it up and put it in your pocket...
Sure that kind of stuff is still a ways into the future, but that's what I believe should happen and that would grab a reasonable chunk of the market, if done properly.
Re:parents and children?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Insightful
> Palm is on its way down, and PDAs will be > remembered as the pet rock of the late 90's and > early 00's.
Palm may be on its way out, but the PDA is a useful tool. I do not wear a watch, I do not have to carry my appointment book, I can keep track of phone numbers, and I can keep my to-do list. All very important stuff for me.
I think the PDA may get whacked by integration with cell phones, and (truth be told) I would love to have the new Handspring Treo PDA/cellphone combo once it gets somewhat cheaper.
The idea of a portable device to provide basic information management functions is an excellent idea. Is it useful for everyone? Well...no. Not everybody needs something like this to keep on top of their lives. I find it incredibly useful, and it has helped me to keep my life somewhat more sane than it would otherwise be. That, plus I can play Scrabble in the bathroom.
The one killer app I see...
by
Docrates
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
Is for those supermarket and logistics people that get to buy $800-$1200 rugged versions of palm for their inventory and tracking applications. Somehow I think that 10 cheap palm devices last longer than one expensive tough one.
--
There are two kinds of people in the world: Those with good memory.
Re:The one killer app I see...
by
Faggot
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
Put a barcode reader on this, and you'll have proprietors of even small-time grocers in the (ahem) palm of your hand. Especially for the price of a few tanks of petrol.:)
--
But what do I know. I'm just looking for anonymous gay sex.
2 Meg of ram?
by
TheLoneCabbage
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
With only 2 meg of RAM it's not going to be worth much more than an organizer. And you can buy those now for $20 (and some look much cooler than this).
Personaly for my tastes just sell me the husk, and let me buy the memmory as an option. I would think that a unit with NO memmory would be cheaper to manufacture and the modularity would allow it to have a wider market apeal (for the same manufactureing line).
Comments: Zire is reported to be extinct. No mother tongue speakers. There are apparently a few who learned it as second language. Grammar. Extinct.
--
Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
Backlight and Palma Sutra
by
Adam+Rightmann
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
is bliss for this married man, though had to binary edit the latest version to remove the positions that diminished chances of fertility.
Plus, then the little lady is expecting, some of the more acrobat positions are challenged.
Unmarried, adulterous fornicating folks please ignore this post.
--
A. Rightmann
Re:two nice features
by
Pulzar
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
Exactly, I was surprised to see those two, which are usually only in more expensive units ($199+). A refurbirshed Visor Edge at $149 used to be the cheapest unit with rechargable batteries and USB.
If it had 4MB, I'd get one right now:(.
Anybody know any other PDAs with rechargable batteries, usb, and at least 4mb of ram at below $150?
-- Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
Re:Whats the point of a handheld without wireless
by
Mr.+No+Skills
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· Score: 2, Insightful
How much R&D do you think it took to place a Palm III in a new case?
-- Sleep is for the Weak
See how far we've come!!
by
PeterChenoweth
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· Score: 5, Insightful
So in 8 years of progress Palm has gone from a 1MB Palm Professional with a backlight, a strange input character set, Notes, Calendar, To-Do, Appointments and Expense. To a 2MB Palm Zire with no backlight, same strange input character set, Notes, Calendar, To-Do, Appointments, and Expense.
It's no great wonder that Palm Inc. is dying a slow death.
Re:See how far we've come!!
by
Mr_Silver
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
So in 8 years of progress Palm has gone from a 1MB Palm Professional with a backlight, a strange input character set, Notes, Calendar, To-Do, Appointments and Expense. To a 2MB Palm Zire with no backlight, same strange input character set, Notes, Calendar, To-Do, Appointments, and Expense.
I argued this very similar point once on comp.sys.palmtops.pilot and got the following response:
In that time a top-of-the-line PalmOS device has gone from 160x160
monochrome with a 16 MHZ CPU, 4M of RAM and a unique internal
expansion slot... to 320x480 16-bit color with a 66 MHz CPU, 16M
of RAM, and an expansion slot that's shared with digital cameras
and MP3 players... the lightweight devices have gone from 160x160
monochrome with 16MHZ and 2M of RAM to 320x320 color with 33MHz
and 16M of RAM.
The operating system has added a new file system, a new network
stack, and a whole new collection of standard libraries... and it's
still backwards compatible and mostly forwards compatible with the
IIIx and V.
Meanwhile, the top-of-the-line Windows Powered device has gone from
240x320 8-bit color with a 70 MHz CPU, 16M of RAM, and a standard
CF expansion slot to 240x320 16-bit color, a 400 MHz CPU that's
not any faster than the previous 200 MHz one, 64M of RAM, and a
less capable expansion slot. The lightweight model has gone from
40 MHz to 200 MHz, 8-bit color to 16-bit color.
The operating system has changed the user interface incompatibly,
and added new drivers and applications.
So my figuring is that in the time it's taken low-end PPCs to cost
as little as top-of-the-line Palms used to, Palm's increased CPU
speed 4 times, display resolution 6 times, color depth 16 times,
and memory 4-8 times. Windows powered devices have increased CPU
speed 3-5 times, desplay resolution not at all, color depth 2 times,
and memory 4 times.
The operating system has had significant UI makeovers and new apps,
but the underlying functionality hasn't changed and some functionality
has actually been removed from the UI.
If you extend the timeline back to the first models, the differences
are even more striking. The first Palm only had 128K of RAM!
So don't tell me the Palm camp has been standing still, and expect
me to believe you have the vaguest idea what you're talking about.
Something to think about. Although having said that, I do think that Palm are dying a slow death. If OS 5 doesn't take off (and there is nothing radically different about the UI which will make most people go "oh, nothings changed") then they're going to be pretty much shafted.
-- Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
Makes sense IFF street price is lower...
by
dpbsmith
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Like others, I'm scratching my head at this if the price is really $99.
The Palm m105 really does cost $99. (A quick check at Yahoo stores shows: Palm Online Store $99.00; Circuit City $99.95; Datavision $99.94; BuyDig.com $90.00).
Maybe the Zire costs Palm much less and is sold to retailers for much less; and, as with some other products, maybe the price at Palm's store will continue to be $99, but street prices at the Best Buys, Staples, and Wal*Marts of the world will be much lower.
If the price were really $58.88 or $49.95 or "39.95 after $30 mail-in rebate" I'd buy one for my wife in an instant.
Re:I just don't get it
by
ashpool7
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
The introduction of the M series for Palm was the beginning of the end for them.
* No compelling new features, minus the to-do/calendar view (which doesn't display alarms or notes)
* Switchable faceplates? Surely a sign that they've run out of *really* good ideas.
* Color? What about battery life? I thought Palm had proven color wasn't a must-have feature.
* Still-broken cradle drain problem.
* Wireless solution for the masses still not solved.
* SD/MMC Card that the technophiles already despised ("Secure" digital? We all know how much we like hardware that says that)
* m130: $250 un-upgradeable hardware. What a plan!
Palm just lost it. They had a dreat idea, ran with it, and then fumbled. Now CE is slowly replacing them. Zire just reaffirms that they still don't get it anymore.
Re:I just don't get it
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Palm's market for this thing doesn't care much about stats, they wouldn't know how to interpret them anyway. And honestly, they will never fill that 2MB anyway. They will like the look of the Zire, though, a lot more than they'd like the look of the M100 series.
The big difference is for Palm. The Zire is much cheaper to produce than the M100 series. Those $100 M105s probably cost Palm $60 to make. A $100 Zire probably costs Palm $30 to make. Considering dealer markup, etc. Palm probably makes 3x more on a $100 Zire than a $100 m105.
Re:No backlight
by
c.derby
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
yes, but the m105 was originally more expensive. it only dropped to the $99 range when it was discontinued.
btw, if you know what avantgo is, you know where to get it. if you don't have it and dont' know what it is, do you really miss it? besides, this unit only has 2MB. avantgo would only fill up the "entry level" amount of memory.
yes, i think that the lack of backlight is a big mistake. i could never own (another) pda without a backlight. but remember, this unit isn't for the pda connoisseur. its for the k-mart, target, walmart crowd. an "affordable" palm handlheld to get them hooked on the technology.
This is the same as a Palm V with a different case. Go on e-bay and get a Palm V for about $75.00.
-- Do really dense people warp space more than others?
Re:No backlight
by
palmpunk
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Not only is my palm my organizer, its also a flashlight. Come on Palm. No one even makes watches without backlights!
They were engineered that way.
by
stud9920
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
The people behind Palm had studies that showed that the greatest part of the market for palmtops are people that already have a desktop computer, a home computer, a laptop. Heck, with a price tag of hundreds of dollars to start with, only geeks and your boss could afford one, and only AFTER buying said devices.
Those are better fit to run full screen, full motion, full color videos and play mp3s. I don't need that on my palmtop. Besides, how long a video can you fit in even 64 MB of RAM ?
That's not what a PDA (Personal Digital Assistant) is for. That's why these should be black and white, lowres. That's what rules about Palms. That's what sucks about $700 Windoze CE devices. If I want to play a video game, I buy a Gameboy, that's much cheaper.
Besides, Notes, Calendar, To-Do, Appointments, and Expense are only the surface. You're free to add dozens of other little softwares. The Hacker's Diet. AvantGo, to cite a few.
If you want to whine about the lack of evolution in Palm devices, complain about the fact that batteries still last for about three weeks only.
The Zire is all about focus
by
JonathanF
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
I see the same criticisms repeated over and over: only the two buttons (not including scrolling), slower, less memory... but I think a lot of people are missing the point.
The Zire isn't a PDA in the "small computer with a stylus" sense. You aren't supposed to turn this into a game box or use it as a tiny replacement for an office computer. It's intended as an organizer - the fact that it has extra memory for one or two other apps (assuming you can get them to the Zire) and can sync with your computer is just a nice perk.
And the fact that Palm is marketing the Zire in a different way is also crucial. This is the PDA for people who might otherwise think of PDAs as expensive toys. It's the PDA you give to your mother as a Christmas gift, not something for the "mobile professional."
The only practical problem with it is a lack of backlighting. The monochrome screen is supposed to have a nice contrast, so this probably won't be trouble on the level of the Gameboy Advance, but you'd better hope you don't need to check your memos when you're on a nighttime bus.
Slashdot Mirror
Parents and children don't need handhelds. I was all excited about handhelds a few years ago, but these days the only people still using them are CS grad students (not that there's anything wrong with that). I only keep mine around because my watch broke. Once the novelty wears off (and it has), the ability to play Asteroids at a movie theater isn't all that great a selling point. Palm is on its way down, and PDAs will be remembered as the pet rock of the late 90's and early 00's.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
Is for those supermarket and logistics people that get to buy $800-$1200 rugged versions of palm for their inventory and tracking applications. Somehow I think that 10 cheap palm devices last longer than one expensive tough one.
There are two kinds of people in the world: Those with good memory.
With only 2 meg of RAM it's not going to be worth much more than an organizer. And you can buy those now for $20 (and some look much cooler than this).
Personaly for my tastes just sell me the husk, and let me buy the memmory as an option. I would think that a unit with NO memmory would be cheaper to manufacture and the modularity would allow it to have a wider market apeal (for the same manufactureing line).
I would rather be ashes than dust!
ZIRE: an extinct language of New Caledonia
SIL code: SIH
Region: Bourail, coastal plain.
Alternate names: ZIRA, SIRHE, SICHE, SÎSHËË, NERË
Classification: Austronesian, Malayo-Polynesian, Central-Eastern, Eastern Malayo-Polynesian, Oceanic, Central-Eastern Oceanic, Remote Oceanic, New Caledonian, Southern, South, Zire-Tiri.
Comments: Zire is reported to be extinct. No mother tongue speakers. There are apparently a few who learned it as second language. Grammar. Extinct.
Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
Plus, then the little lady is expecting, some of the more acrobat positions are challenged.
Unmarried, adulterous fornicating folks please ignore this post.
A. Rightmann
Exactly, I was surprised to see those two, which are usually only in more expensive units ($199+). A refurbirshed Visor Edge at $149 used to be the cheapest unit with rechargable batteries and USB.
:(.
If it had 4MB, I'd get one right now
Anybody know any other PDAs with rechargable batteries, usb, and at least 4mb of ram at below $150?
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
How much R&D do you think it took to place a Palm III in a new case?
Sleep is for the Weak
So in 8 years of progress Palm has gone from a 1MB Palm Professional with a backlight, a strange input character set, Notes, Calendar, To-Do, Appointments and Expense. To a 2MB Palm Zire with no backlight, same strange input character set, Notes, Calendar, To-Do, Appointments, and Expense.
It's no great wonder that Palm Inc. is dying a slow death.
Like others, I'm scratching my head at this if the price is really $99.
The Palm m105 really does cost $99. (A quick check at Yahoo stores shows: Palm Online Store $99.00; Circuit City $99.95; Datavision $99.94; BuyDig.com $90.00).
Maybe the Zire costs Palm much less and is sold to retailers for much less; and, as with some other products, maybe the price at Palm's store will continue to be $99, but street prices at the Best Buys, Staples, and Wal*Marts of the world will be much lower.
If the price were really $58.88 or $49.95 or "39.95 after $30 mail-in rebate" I'd buy one for my wife in an instant.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
The introduction of the M series for Palm was the beginning of the end for them.
* No compelling new features, minus the to-do/calendar view (which doesn't display alarms or notes)
* Switchable faceplates? Surely a sign that they've run out of *really* good ideas.
* Color? What about battery life? I thought Palm had proven color wasn't a must-have feature.
* Still-broken cradle drain problem.
* Wireless solution for the masses still not solved.
* SD/MMC Card that the technophiles already despised ("Secure" digital? We all know how much we like hardware that says that)
* m130: $250 un-upgradeable hardware. What a plan!
Palm just lost it. They had a dreat idea, ran with it, and then fumbled. Now CE is slowly replacing them. Zire just reaffirms that they still don't get it anymore.
Palm's market for this thing doesn't care much about stats, they wouldn't know how to interpret them anyway. And honestly, they will never fill that 2MB anyway. They will like the look of the Zire, though, a lot more than they'd like the look of the M100 series.
The big difference is for Palm. The Zire is much cheaper to produce than the M100 series. Those $100 M105s probably cost Palm $60 to make. A $100 Zire probably costs Palm $30 to make. Considering dealer markup, etc. Palm probably makes 3x more on a $100 Zire than a $100 m105.
yes, but the m105 was originally more expensive. it only dropped to the $99 range when it was discontinued. btw, if you know what avantgo is, you know where to get it. if you don't have it and dont' know what it is, do you really miss it? besides, this unit only has 2MB. avantgo would only fill up the "entry level" amount of memory. yes, i think that the lack of backlight is a big mistake. i could never own (another) pda without a backlight. but remember, this unit isn't for the pda connoisseur. its for the k-mart, target, walmart crowd. an "affordable" palm handlheld to get them hooked on the technology.
-- derby
This is the same as a Palm V with a different case. Go on e-bay and get a Palm V for about $75.00.
Do really dense people warp space more than others?
Not only is my palm my organizer, its also a flashlight. Come on Palm. No one even makes watches without backlights!
The people behind Palm had studies that showed that the greatest part of the market for palmtops are people that already have a desktop computer, a home computer, a laptop. Heck, with a price tag of hundreds of dollars to start with, only geeks and your boss could afford one, and only AFTER buying said devices.
Those are better fit to run full screen, full motion, full color videos and play mp3s. I don't need that on my palmtop. Besides, how long a video can you fit in even 64 MB of RAM ?
That's not what a PDA (Personal Digital Assistant) is for. That's why these should be black and white, lowres. That's what rules about Palms. That's what sucks about $700 Windoze CE devices. If I want to play a video game, I buy a Gameboy, that's much cheaper.
Besides, Notes, Calendar, To-Do, Appointments, and Expense are only the surface. You're free to add dozens of other little softwares. The Hacker's Diet. AvantGo, to cite a few.
If you want to whine about the lack of evolution in Palm devices, complain about the fact that batteries still last for about three weeks only.
I see the same criticisms repeated over and over: only the two buttons (not including scrolling), slower, less memory... but I think a lot of people are missing the point.
The Zire isn't a PDA in the "small computer with a stylus" sense. You aren't supposed to turn this into a game box or use it as a tiny replacement for an office computer. It's intended as an organizer - the fact that it has extra memory for one or two other apps (assuming you can get them to the Zire) and can sync with your computer is just a nice perk.
And the fact that Palm is marketing the Zire in a different way is also crucial. This is the PDA for people who might otherwise think of PDAs as expensive toys. It's the PDA you give to your mother as a Christmas gift, not something for the "mobile professional."
The only practical problem with it is a lack of backlighting. The monochrome screen is supposed to have a nice contrast, so this probably won't be trouble on the level of the Gameboy Advance, but you'd better hope you don't need to check your memos when you're on a nighttime bus.