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What's with Zipcar?
MrMrBen asks: "I've been seeing ads for Zipcar on the subway in NY. I didn't realize that it's actually out there and working. Apparently, you make a reservation on their web site, show up at the car, wave your membership card over the windshield and it unlocks for you. Does anyone know what kind of wireless network they use? Can they track the car while you're driving it? Have people been using zipcars, and what have their impression been? Is this the future of cars for city dwellers?"
flexcar does the same thing in different markets than zipcar, and predates zipcar (barely).
I can just imagine people hacking them and havin some good old fun but on the other side if they do track u is that spyware?
I'm a geek deal wit it
1) Identify Zipcar card holder.
2) Beat holder senseless and steal his zipcard.
3) ???
4) JOYRIDE!!!!11!!1
It's about time, the car-rental industry caught up. zipgirl have been at it for years.
I've been involved in the development of a similar project, which has not hit the market yet (and probably never will, due to other factors than technology). We didn't go for the "wave your card in from of the windshield" approach, but used SMS(!) for communication. Essentially, there was a GPS receiver and a GSM module in the car, and a box stuffed with our custom software.
:) To bad it never took off, but nice to hear that someone else got things through the non technical stumbling blocks of such a huge project...
The user made a booking on a website. When he was by the car, he sent an SMS to our server, which analyzed the SMS (for passphrase, phone number, correct car id etc), and if the SMS passed the tests an encrypted unlock request was sent to the car. Similar approach was used when locking the car.
The stuff was combined with GPS so, yes, we could keep track of the cars - but that info was SMS based too - we sen't a "please tell us your position" SMS to the car, which then replied with GPS coordinates. So, I guess that if you managed to unlock the car (which was non-trivial, you'd have to hack our encryption scheme and protocol - tricky but possible), and then trash the GSM module you'd be safe. OTOH, the cars we were using (or rather, supposed to use this with) were highly peculiar (as in they certainly stood out in a crowd) electric driven things that had a range of 90 km, so it wouldn't really do you much good.
It was a rather cool project, actually
May we live long and die out
I haven't used one, but I've seen one in Boston. Zipcar has one of these cars located in a parking lot on the corner of Congress St and Boston Wharf Rd. It seems to get used often enough because it's not always in its assigned space. It doesn't seem like a bad idea for people who may not be able to afford to have a car in the city.
Lessee...
The wave-your-card thing isn't very sensitive--I've generally had to actually touch the windshield to get it to register. I think the tech is the same that a lot of companies are using for ID cards these days--a radio pulse, if memory serves, that the cards reflect in a particular way.
Flexcar is a direct competitor in DC now.
The web signup form is pretty slick, They're trying to setup a phone signup as well, but it's not available yet.
I'm a new driver--just got my license this summer. My girlfriend's car is a stickshift, which kind of scares me. I'm in the habit of getting around by bus & bike. Apart from direct utility, Zipcar is giving me a chance to get practice driving every couple weeks.
My second session with with Prius Pam at Alewife, which was fun! People who enjoy riding different kinds of cars might want to get a trial membership just to muck around, particularly once they get the Mini Cooper in.
My wife and I are pretty much the target market for ZipCar. We live in Boston's South End. Our car was costing us $600/month in lease, insurance, parking spot rent, gas, and parking tickets, and we were using it about 4 times a month, so we got rid of it. When we heard about Zipcar, we joined up.
Within a 4 block radius of us there are 5 zipcars, parked in various alleys and parking lots. Prices range from $6-$8/hour and @ 40 a mile. The cars are all nice economy cars (Beetles, Jettas, etc.) The website reservation system works incredibly well, and the people are very nice to deal with. Zipcar even hosts occasional get-togethers around the area (we went to one - an outdoor picnic at the DeCordoba museum - nice and not at all cultish as I expected).
My take on it? Zipcar is a great deal for people who live in a city, especially one where having a car is outrageously expensive such as Boston, San Francisco, or NYC. For many people, an automobile is difficult to give up. But like smoking, once you do you realize how much of your time and money it consumes, and how much happier you are without it - especially since so few people actually *need* a car.
I found a car was more a pain in the ass than anything else (I'm old enough that I no longer tie my self-image to inanimate objects I own), and for those few times when I actually need a car, Zipcar fills the need with a minimum of hassle and at a reasonable price. For longer trips (say, anyhting over 20 miles or 1/2 day) renting a car is cheaper...for now.
The crimes of eBay are a disgrace to it's pig latin heritage!
Actually, they seem to encourage people like me. I took an interest in Zipcar a couple years ago, before I had my license, and corresponded with the CEO, Robin Chase, about it. She urged me to join, and I explained that I didn't drive.
"Well," she wrote, "then you'll have a clean record when you apply!"
I said to a friend of mine recently: I could buy a car, and practice with one that I own, I could borrow a car from someone I have a personal relationship with, or I can do Zipcar,and be using one I have a business relationship with. That really seems like the best idea of the three.
America, wave snazzy card, rent car by the hour.
Holland, swipe snazzy card, rent bike by the hour.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Zipcar is best for folks that don't want to deal with owning a car and only use it for short periods of time. It's not really cost effective for full day rentals (of course, I'm saying this while I have a full day rental today...). You can rent a car from Avis or Hertz at better rates for the whole day even if you add insurance and gas (which you don't have to pay directly in the Zipcar case). The tradeoff is, of course, that you have to get to a rental car place (the closest zipcar is a block away from my apartment). And deal with gas, etc. That's why, for example, I'm using it today for the wedding... I'm going to be coming home late from the reception, and I don't want to deal with dropping a car off tonight at a rental place, or with parking it overnight without getting a ticket. So, it's worth it to me to pay $15-20 more just for that ($65 vs. $50ish for a rental with gas+insurance).
But, for short trips, like to BJ's (which is far away from any sort of T/public transportation) or for the once a month super-stock-up-on-non-perishables grocery runs, it's invaluable and quite cost effective. Especially here in Mass... I just had two friends pay their excise taxes on their cars. Man, they were complaining for DAYS about that. My zipcar bills for 6 months adds up to their excise tax. Forget about insurance, gas, parking (or parking tickets with on street parking in Boston), maintenance, etc.
With Zipcar, you pay per hour (between $5-8 depending on their cost for the parking space) plus $0.40/mile (with 125 free miles on full day rentals). that's the other thing... long trips even for a short time can add up. And, you're indirectly paying for the gas and maintenance of the car. But, for short trips, it hardly matters. I always estimate costs for my errands by just adding another hour onto my reservation times. Generally, that works out to be a reasonable estimate.
The cars are generally well-maintained, clean, and easy to find. I have 5 cars within a 5 minute walk. :) It makes a huge difference to my quality of life in the city.
Sujal
politics, food, music, life: FatMixx
We've been Zipcar members in Boston for more than a year, and we're incredibly happy with it. It helps that there's a car that lives right in the parking lot of our apartment complex, but there's other nearby convenient ones too. We've had no problem getting the car when we need it, but it also seems to be gone often enough that we know we're not the only users. The technology they use is great -- works in a way that is almost indistinguishable from magic. And the people are nice and responsive, as are the cars, for that matter. Really, I can't recommend it enough for city-dwellers.
The only problem is that I lie in bed at night worrying that they'll go the way of Kozmo.
Difficult to give up? I'd say so. That means I would be at the mercy of the merchants within walking distance and/or the piss-poor service that one often associates with public transport. I don't like people to begin with, so cramming me in a metal box with lots of others is not enjoyable. I'd rather live in the sticks with a car.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
Here in Sweden there's a similar scheme (though without the snazzy technical solution). There are many car co-operatives where for a small yearly sum one gets access to one of several cars the co-op owns for a much lower rental price than a straightforward hire car.
For drivers like myself (living near enough to work to cycle and not requiring a car on a daily basis) the system works out incredibly well.
Hmmm - if I were in the market to start my own company I would actually look at something like Zipcar and aim it at the London area. I would love to try and help reduce the amount of privately owned cars in the UK.
A little planning goes a long way...
I would be at the mercy of the merchants within walking distance and/or the piss-poor service that one often associates with public transport.
Well, he did say it was good for people who live in big cities like NYC or San Fran. And those cities have good (and varied) merchants in walking distance, almost anywhere you live, AND good public transport. When I lived in NYC, I didn't have a car and was happier. When I needed one for a weekend trip, I rented one. Worked out great.
I HATE those So-called Mini Coopers... They bear even less relationship to the real Mini Cooper than the new Beetle does to the old one.
Look at the name Mini... Guess what, it's supposed to be small. You could practically fit an original Mini Cooper in the boot (trunk for Americans) of these over sized monstrosities...
I assume it's a safety feature making them so much bigger. After all the guys driving over sized trucks with lift kits on them wouldn't be able to see something as small as an original Mini Cooper... Mind you, you could probably drive the Mini under some of them...
Z.
-- Under/Overrated is meta-moderation, and therefore is Redundant.
In the San Francisco area there's a similar outfit called City CarShare, although if I recall correctly, ZipCar is a for-profit concern; City CarShare is a nonprofit.
I've been a member for a year or so, and I love it. On the rare occasions I need a car, I reserve one via the web and walk a couple of blocks to pick it up. Every month they send me a bill. I don't have to worry about insurance, repairs, parking tickets, breakins, or any of the other car owner headaches. They even take care of gas; when the car is running low, there's a fleet card in the glovebox that lets you fuel up almost anywhere.
The drawbacks are pretty minor: If I need a car on a weekend day, I have to reserve a few days in advance. And the rates are such that if I'm going more than about 30 miles away, I'm better off just getting a car from Enterprise.
But overall, it's great! Since I live in an urban area, I just don't need a car very often, and so I end up saving a lot of money by just getting one for the few hours a month I actually use one.
...you weren't using it for business?
It would be a good idea for a seperate business credit card to use with the ZipCar
Hi, I'm one of the engineers at Zipcar. Here are some quick answers to the questions you posted:
Does anyone know what kind of wireless network they use?
We use the CDPD network at the moment. One day, when we get around to it, we'll use GPRS. CDPD is slowish but all our packets are tiny (we use maybe 30kb per month per car), so it's fine for us.
Can they track the car while you're driving it?
For our members' privacy, we don't have GPS in the cars. We can sense the ignition, track the mileage, and keep up with who enters and exits the car, but that's about it. We don't want to know where the members are, and in two years we've only "lost" a car once or twice, so the benefit to us is pretty small. (incidentally, "Do you have GPS?" is the most frequently asked technology question for us.. people think we should have it because it's cool)
Have people been using zipcars, and what have their impression been?
I use it myself and I love it, but I'm biased. See the other replies from our members in this thread.
Is this the future of cars for city dwellers?
We'll see! (I hope!)
Here we see the flexcar hiding behind a small bulding, waiting for a zipcar to appear. Here comes one now. It has drifted away from its pack and is vulnerable. The zipcar pounces...
:)
Oh, pre-dates....
Baz
slightly OT, but what's the purpose of the scoring of posts here ? in this thread, there is a post by tashian which answers every point asked in the original question, and it gets rated a 1. On the other hand, there are lesser (or un-)related posts that get 4s/5s.
What happens if you find the car (internally or externally) dirty? (e.g. mud on the outside, fast-food on the inside)
;-)
I note you are not allowed to smoke - what happens if you do? Hopefully the airbags go off..
Basically, I'm just wondering what would happen if the slob after you said "oh, the guy before me made all this mess".
Matt
I tried to, but couldn't, justify the zipcar argument. (I'm in the s/e as well, btw)
For w/e trips, a rental is cheaper, and for infrequent short trips, such as shopping, a cab is cheaper. That's all I need a car for, pretty much. Ok, so I can't impress dates with my car, but zipcar would hardly help there either.
The only niche for a zipcar would be if I often had a day's worth of errands, as pretty much the only arguments are convenience of pickup, and letting you run around town on your own.
I was toying with rolling something like this for myself and friends: pool a bit of money, buy a cheap car, insure it to the wazoo. Since I need a car less that 10% of the time, almost 10 people could share the car. Resident parking the SE isn't that bad. I figured it should be easy to get access to a decent car for a bit under $100 a month. In the end, that failed the cab/rental acid test as well: $100 is quite a bit of cabbage and rentals; more than I spend at any rate.
Do rental agencies deliver? That would make zipcar even less attractive.
I live in Brooklyn, NY and was very excited when we finally got ZipCar in our neighborhood a few months ago. But I was really put off by the fine print in the signup that basically said "You have to give us a $200 deposit to join zipcar. If you ever leave, we'll give it back to you, but you should realize that it is mixed in with other Zipcar corporate funds in several accounts, and there is no guarantee that you will be able to receive your deposit if Zipcar ever goes out of business"
What a "nice" revenue model they have! More like a pyramid scheme - get $200 (or at least six month's revenue for the average Zipcar user) every time a new person signs up, and then use that money to expand the business rapidly. If and when they go belly-up, you'll be waiting in line with VW and every other creditor trying to get your $200 back.
I was hoping to use Zipcar at least once a month, but I don't want to risk losing my $200 just to try it out. Maybe when other competitors come to NYC they will change the policy?
Hey, is Zipcar publically held? In large cities, this could be the best thing since cars themselves. I would love to invest, if Bush ever stops screwing up the market (How the hell can a president drive down the economy and still be in a 'wartime' ecomony?), in Zipcar.
./ approval with little friction, it's gotta be good. Half the time we can't even decide if a new kernel patch is good or not, let alone cars..
Its seems like a really great idea, and even the jadedness of citydwelling slashdot members seem to find zipcar favorable. I mean, if it can pass the
Tibbon
tibbon.com