Smaller Than The Mini PC, The P4/2400 Micro PC

fist_187 writes "Tom's Hardware Guide has a story on the smallest PC since the Mini-PC: The MicroPC. It's a Pentium 4/2400 MHz machine, but you'd probably mistake it for a cable modem. I'm sure this trend will continue on to the Nano-PC, Pico-PC, and the Dick Tracy Watch."

Comments

What would be nice...

[teamhasnoi]

A breakout box for all the cables to go into, rather than having them all stuck in the back. That would allow many more options for placement, and reduce cable pileup.

Just a thought.

I can understand the mini pc

[Morgahastu]

but at this point, this thing is basicly a laptop without any output or input devices. It's nothing spectacular. A mini pc would be good to keep arround if you are a technician and you just need a portable machine to plug a hard drive in to recover files (or something similar, you get my drift) but this is just not practical.

I am hoping shuttle makes a semi-mini pc since the mini pc is a little too small for me (I like to add pci cards). Or have they already?

Built-In SiS Graphics chip

[cioxx]

How many of you want to bet this will not even install UT2003, let alone run it.

Sort of defeats the purpose of a LAN party convinience. If only they could make it 1 inch wider to include a Radeon 9700pro...

But that's just wishful thinking.

It makes sense

[JanneM]

Since competing with speed is turning out to be non-productive, the focus will be on something else, and an obvious candidate is size. Another issue I would fervently hope gets on the table is noise and power consumption.

I am sick and tired of large beige boxes sounding like a jet taking off. Having a unit like that as the home-wide server would be a dream come true. In the same way, the 'maxi'-notebooks increasingly seem like an excellent alternative to a traditional desktop, and much for the same reasons. Maybe, hopefully, we are not too far away from another format switch, where the base hardware is smaller and quieter than the stuff we put up with today.

Re:It makes sense

[iankerickson]

If you think a laptop will be money well spent towards getting a quieter computer, I think you'll be disappointed. I do a lot of service on PCs and laptops, and I've been repeatedly surprised how loud the laptop's really are -- almost a bad as a PC, if not as bad.

I suspect the noise is from MTBF of fans and hard disks. It's true that some models of hard disks and fans really are quieter or louder than others. But take two PCs of the same model with exactly the same model parts and one will be louder. A fan can get dirt in the bearings, spin unevenly, or vibrate in place, all causing irritating noise. Everyone's experienced a hard disk that works just fine but has a piercing, tinitus-inducing whine, which usually gets worse over time. Just like when you a buy a PC, there's a certain chance that when you buy a laptop that you'll get a noisy one, and you'll either have to swap the guilty parts yourself, experiment with accoustic matting, or come up with a good excuse to exchange the noisy laptop for another of the same model and hope lightning doesn't strike twice.

Now if you want your laptop to get _noisier_, just move it around a lot while it's powered on with the drives spun up and be sure to place next to a pile of dust-ridden papers. Bump, move, or shove the desk the laptop sits on as much as possible. It won't take long...

If you want permanant lasting quiet, get a handheld PC, like a Psion or a PocketPC. They're certainly not as good as a "real" PC or laptop for the money, but they are _totally_ silent. The only sound mine makes is a slight hum from the backlight, but I have to put my ear near the screen to notice.

When you say you hope we're up for another format switch in PCs, I think you're right. DoC sockets are becoming common on motherboards. CompactFlash cards are getting bigger and cheaper. USB 2 is adequate for connecting external hard disks. I suspect PCs are going to become more and more solid-state, but not for good reasons. I think Microsoft is going to push for the core of their OS to live on a DRM-enabled, read-only flash that requires digital keys to modify. Sure it will be cracked in a week, but I think the current X-box vs. Linux charade is just a rehearsal. Their using it as free research to see if it would work for PCs. Eventually PCs are going to become so powerful and so cheap that the threat "Buy a new computer!" if you want to upgrade your version of Windows will be like ordering someone to spend $50 to double the gas mileage of their car.

Let the funny Microsoft/Automotive metaphors begin.

Re:It makes sense

[Chanc_Gorkon]

You know, solid state is going to very soon look more appealing then anything else for storage and even for booting a PC like OS. Read only OS on compact flash? Sure. This would not only be a good idea, but a good thing for security. Less moving parts is always a good thing. And I think that Intel and AMD both know they need to do something about the power of these beasties. 350 W, 450 W and even 550 W Power Supplies are out and mostly because of the processor and the multiple drives alot of us are starting to really gain affinity for. DVD-RW drives will obsolete the need for more then one other 5 1/4 drive (unless you want to copy a disk, but then you could always copy it down to your massive hard disk....). Eventually, soon, you may even be able to boot fully functional Windows, or a special version of it on a cd for trouble shooting. Even booting a full Linux distro off of a CD will be possible too (I know it's mostly there now, but usually the cd bootable ones have stuff missing). The 1/44 MB 3.5 inch drive will go bye bye and be replaced by the DVD-RW and for smaller yet tech, CF cards or SD cards. Apple started getting rid of 3.5 inch floppies. We could get rid of them too but they still hang around our necks like a shackle. How would you flash a bios with out a floppy you say? How about create a small, bootable iso image with Linux and then flash it that way? ASUS has Live Update and it works, mostly. Never had it fry my bios anyway. I still feel uncomfortable doing this especially since there is a risk the OS could crash during the flash procedure. MB Companies need to do something here too. Using AFLASH is becoming harder because it's getting harder to create that dos diskette. If you have Windows XP or Windows ME, with exception of ME's emergency boot diskette, you cannot create a bootable floppy with format a: /s.

In any event, these PC's along with others that finally start to look at what users want (cheap, powerful machines that can do any PC game with out having to buy a 300 dollar vid card) instead of the bottom line are what they will go for. Eventually, PC's that cost 2-3 thousand dollars will come with a screen comparable to a big screen TV. For us normal folks, we can be happy with a nice 15-17 inch screen and only have to pay about 200 bucks for top o da line..It will happen and sooner before later. IN 5 years, Hard disks could be obsoleted with the exception of those who need LARGE storage (storage like 2-4 TB Storage). Thos who need multi TB's of storage will still use harddisks, while us 100-200 GB Folks will be using CF cards.

Re:It makes sense

[Jhan]

Interesting points... Summary:

• OS in read only memory
• Booting applications or even full OS environments from removable media
• Cheap, yet powerful machines that are ultracompact, quiet and cool.

Something similar to this A600, perhaps? This fits nicely with my theory that the market for home computers (as oppsed to office computers transplanted to the home) never really went away. They just stopped being produced, for no very good reason.

Toaster Mac

[yerricde]

If they make a computer that looks like [a stereotypical two-slice toaster], I'll buy it just for a good laugh.

They already did. It's called the Power Macintosh G4 Cube computer.

Why not just buy a laptop?

[dpbsmith]

I'm obviously missing something here (or missing something obvious here). What's the point? Why not just buy a laptop?

Re:Why not just buy a laptop?

[carpe_noctem]

Because the most expensive part of the laptop is really the screen, and when you have a micro PC, you are free of that component. (Note: I'm not necessarily agreeing with the logic here, I'm just trying to explain why people might want them.) Oh, yeah, and plus, there's the geek factor in owning a really cool looking gadget that all your nerd friends don't have yet.

Re:Why not just buy a laptop?

[Black Copter Control]

Because the most expensive part of the laptop is really the screen, and when you have a micro PC, you are free of that component.

That might be a nice explanation if this box wasn't more expensive than some laptops. At $2000 without a screen, it should probably be compared against $2300-$2500 laptops in terms of general performance -- Unfortunately, the benchmarks for this article weren't written up with that sort of comparison in mind.

Re:Why not just buy a laptop?

[MikeFM]

Going by the data and pictures this is at least as small as a laptop.. maybe a little wider but not as high or wide. It also looks like it'll take more abuse than your average laptop. Also the screens, keyboards, and mouse doodads on laptops all sort of suck. Really to me a tiny PC like this is much more interesting than a normal laptop because in theory the same hardware should be cheaper which allows me to add my own i/o devices to fit my needs and location. Why choose between a laptop or a monster box for your office when you can have this and a nice flat panel monitor and a real keyboard and mouse.

The only thing I'd like to see for this is an attachable power pack. A case mod to make it wearable would be interesting too. This has real possibilities as a wearable. :)

Obligatory Manufacturers Link

[Kaypro]

And please no jokes when the site get's /.'d that it must be running on one of these things ;)

http://www.jadetec.co.uk/products/micropc4/

Picocomputer?

[Citizen of Earth]

Tom's Hardware Guide has a story on the smallest PC since the Mini-PC: The MicroPC.

Given "microcomputer" as a synonym for a personal computer, would a micro-PC also be called a "picocomputer"?

Call me crazy, but...

[sssmashy]

I'm not going to spend an additional $1000+ or more just to save a cubic foot of space on my desk.

It's not the size that matters.

[docstrange]

The designers of this computer certainly aren't compensating for anything.

It's not the size, but the way you use it.

Legacy Ports

[spankalee]

I don't really understand including so many connectors in a mini computer. Why have two PS/2 ports, a serial port, a parallel, analog and digital audio in/out, 2 ethernet, and 2 non powered firewire ports?

USB should replace the PS/2, serial and parallel ports, and I'd rather have one powered firewire ports then two unpowered ones, and I don't need 2 ethernet ports, or even a modem port on htat kind of computer.

I wouldn't mind a PC Card slot though, and where's the DVI?

Any one have a good reccomendation for a super-mini that can boot with LinuxBIOS so it doesn't need a HD or CD drive, but does have ethernet and USB?

Shuttles are great though!

[T-Kir]

A friend of mine works in the Digital Video business, and I was telling him about the shuttle systems. A couple of days later he told me that his workplace were very interested in one (esp. when I updated him with the integrated monitor).

The reason they were so interested is that they have to take a laptop and docking bay with PCI adaptors so they can show customers any demos, yet with the Shuttle they're able to completely package the system and it works a charm. The bean counters were even more surprised at the cost of the system, they thought $2500, but it only cost £330 for the shuttle and the rest of the bits were already on site (although they are still sorting the Xenarc version).

Although with the size of the Jadetec, I doubt they'd be able to fit in the custom PCI cards, pity!

fucking sheep!

[Anonymous Coward]

It amazes me that this guy, who posts utter garbage on purpose, can continually get modded high for his inane and pointless comments in story after story as he sits there first-posting all day.

At least he's knows he's posting garbage, you mods seem to completely freaking clueless as to what make a good comment.

It's just a Mocha P4

[Wonko42]

This is just a rebranded (and uglified) Mocha P4, which was reported on previously right here.

No power required?

[A non moose cow]

I couldn't help but notice that this thing has no internal source of power. Are they not showing us the cubic foot wall wort that goes with it?

Great for if your server is colocated!

[rnd()]

Step 1: Stack 5 or 6 of these into a tall ATX case.

Step 2: Put an ethernet switch inside the case and connect ethernet cables.

Step 3: Put a power-strip inside the case and plug in all hardware.

Step 4: Install one or two case fans in the ATX case.

Step 5: Bring the contraption to your local colocation provider and plug it in.

Step 6: Enjoy the fact that you have 5 or 6 colocated servers for the price of one!

shuttle

[asv108]

The shuttle mini-pc's are a better option because their performance is in-line with a typical pc. The biggest advantage with the newest pentium base shuttle, is that they have an AGP port so it makes it a viable option for LAN party folks, since they can stick a radeon 9700 in there.

From the article

[giminy]

The current version is equipped with AGP graphics that will even sway 3D-game fans.

and later...

Not for suitable for 3D games: The built-in SIS graphics

The following benchmarks show that the Micro PC doesn't do well running 3D games. But that's not too surprising, since this PC was not designed as a gaming machine.

Evidently the editors fell asleep?

Where's the space?

[Bartab]

One solitary 2.5" drive, which guarantees slower speeds than desktop, higher price, and general lack of space (I use 200+gig on my main machine)

I can't see value for this in langamers (of which I will admit, I am not) because of the lack of module replacement and overclocking. Lacking either an AGP or PCI it doesn't even take the place of business on-site demos that require such things - the laptops will still be preferable.

Of course, I look across the room at two 18" tall towers, the second case I recently purchased -because- it was so roomy. I find small machines too annoying to work on.

These small things are OK, but...

[foo fighter]

I'm a big fan of Micro ATX.

Small and unobtrusive, but with enough expansion to replace integrated components.

I really don't understand why there aren't more Micro ATX mobos and cases available to the general public.

Re:it lacks DVI,,,

[rodgerd]

DVI and a decent chipset - I'd be interested to know why they didn't go with a mobile Radeon or GeForce chipset, which would presumably be OK heat and power wise for the enclosure.

Even with only mediocre graphics, it's a tempting bumble.

No Fans

[dgp]

The main thing im looking for is a PC of this size that requires NO FANs. Go ahead, slow it down to 700mhz or less. Thats plenty of speed to run a head-less http, ssh, mail, ftp server. Ive got a Pentium class 166 that is doing everything I need without making a sound and I love it! Its getting a little old and Im looking for a no-fan PC (Including no cpu fan). By the way, the Seagate Barracuda IV IDE drives are extremely quiet. Its the only moving part in my system.

Re:No Fans

[kjr71]

Hi,

anyone interested in a desktop workstation with no fans might want to check out this german machine: http://www.signumdata.de/english/futureclient.htm

2.2 Ghz P4, no fans at all - not even in the power supply. It's not ultra small, but still it looks very sweet...

real niche product

[g4dget]

For people who want a small, quiet PC for their desktop, I think they need to put it into a nicer-looking case and make it quieter (I didn't see anything in the review about noise so I assume it's not particularly quiet). Also, something like a DeskNote (search on Google)--a laptop form factor with desktop components--is cheap and space saving. For gamers, it really needs a PCI+AGP slot so that they can put in their favorite graphics cards. For lab equipment and other uses, you probably don't need such a high-end processor--a min-ITX board is cheaper, quieter, and generates less heat. Overall, I think this is a real niche product. But it shows that more small PCs are on the horizon.

Aimed at what market really?

[Dark Lord Seth]

Seriously, all products (used) to be aimed at a market. Since I live in a rather small and boring town, I might be wrong but isn't targetting a market essential for a product to get off the ground? Who are these people aiming for? Apparently no companies, who in their right mind would pay the (probably) insane ammount of money required for that when you can get an otherwise fine workstation for about 40% of the price and onboard graphics is the fastest way to scare away any potential gamers. Video and graphics editing people will still prefer the Mac for their job and because of horrible expandibility it won't be of any use in the CAD/CAM area either.

So what niche is JadeTec trying to fill here? Or are they going for the "I want to have something more espensive then the guy in the next cubicle/office" idea to sell their Micro-PC?

ENLARGE YOU PC!!!!!!

[wirelessbuzzers]

GAIN 3-4 INCHES GUARANTEED! OUR ONLINE PHARMACY IS OPEN 24-7!!!!

sigh, I need to get some sleep. Still, one wonders what women will think when you show off your micro PC to them...

Sooooo.......

[brad3378]

Is that a computer in your pocket
or are you just happy to see me?

Re:it lacks DVI,,,

[mentin]

Yeah, DVI is a must.

They would better remove the usual COM and parallel ports - who the hell needs them now? Sure not the people who would buy this thing. It would save them one third of the back panel space and sure lots of space inside.

I will also wait till this thing gets build-in Bluetooth and WiFi, so I don't have to connect zillions of cables that take more space than the box itself.

OpenBlocks

[Nishi-no-wan]

You're describing the OpenBlocks 1U Micro Server. It is an assembly of five OpenBlocks by Plat'Home. (Use your favorite on-line translator if you can't read Japaense.)

These and Centrury Sytems' FutureNet products have been around for quite a while in Japan, and they appear smaller than the micro computer in the original article. (But then these are server devices and don't have monitor or keyboard controllers.)

As even those of you who can't read Japanese can get from the comparison page, OpenBlocks comes with the Linux 2.4 kernel and FutureNet come with the Linux 2.4.10 kernel. (If they had a FreeBSD version, I'd retire the old laptop I'm using as a router to my cable modem. The price certainly isn't a problem.)

Amen

[0x0d0a]

I've been looking for this for a while.

The problem is that there's been a sense of "damn the noise and heat, give me speed" among PC users for too long, and it's really caused a distortion in the market. Hot, noisy systems that run 50% faster.

The Barracudas are nice, but here are a couple of other thoughts:

Current x86 processors pretty much suck from a heat perspective. You can't really get below 40 watts. I believe there's still a fanless Cyrix processor in production, but it's kind of slow. You might consider a PPC box from Apple.

There are "quiet hard drive" cases. Unfortunately, they generally can't cope with the ventilation demands of 7200RPM drives -- another nice reason to get the Barracudas, which run cool. With 5400 RPM drives, though, you can use these.

There are cases designed to reduce noise. Haven't tried these. Also, haven't tried "silence mods" by adding sound-absorbing material like cork to the inside walls.

There are "quiet power supplies". Haven't tried these either...think they mostly just put a nicer fan in.

Stick with large, low-RPM fans. They're quieter. There are also a few expensive fans designed to be really, really quiet.

I miss my (literally silent) Mac Plus.

I'm sick of PCs

[Francis Avila]

I'm sick of PCs.
I look at a PC and what do I see? Decades of short-sighted design, kludges, needless complexity, and backward compatability.

Why? Because it's cheap? Because it's what we've always done? Is that all?

I say throw off the x86 architecture--we've long sinced reached its esthetic limitations. It's ugly; it's hot; it's loud; it has bus after redundant bus; it has a cpu architecture that's wheezing; it has connectors up the wazoo; and don't even get me started on the abomination that is the PC bios!

I want something simple, elegant, and quiet; something that doesn't have to answer to the kuckelheaded profit motives of twenty years of design revisions. Something that doesn't give kernel hackers cold sweats when they think of all the chaotic evil hiding in that arch just waiting to be unleashed!

I want the BeOS of hardware!

Designing a PC today like remodeling an abandoned house. Who cares then if you've replaced the tile in the kitchen if the pipes are wrapped in duct tape? (Oh. And the house is haunted, too.)

Note, however, that I still prefer cheap hardware to good hardware. Which, um, I suppose is the problem....

That said, however, surely someone can design an architecture using existing technologies that doesn't have to answer to ISA madness (or equivalent) yet is still an open standard? I mean, can't someone take a bunch of standard buses (PCI, IDE, USB, etc) and design something sensible to connect them to? Am I really so stupid about what's involved? (Entirely possible)

I just find it very hard to believe that the PC is really the best one can do.
--
Francis Avila