Re:about time
by
goon+america
·
· Score: 0, Flamebait
Apple doesn't have forty billion in the bank.
Yeah, it just has a paltry 4.5 billion. Peanuts.
Really a deal for someone in subsidized housing.
by
fmaxwell
·
· Score: 2, Flamebait
There are counties in the U.S. where the starting salary for teachers qualifies them to live in government subsidized housing. Few such teachers can afford to blow $1,200 or more on an iMac.
Here's a wild idea: Apple could price their computers such that an entry level iMac costs what an entry level Intel-architecture PC does. They could stop trying to be the Bang & Olufson of computers and build machines that teachers and students could readily afford. Not only would that get teachers and students on board, but also make the machines more appealing to the public at large. Instead, Apple seems to be doing just the opposite by integrating expensive LCDs into their entry level iMacs and not selling an entry level machine sans monitor so that consumers can go to Best Buy and purchase a cheap 15"-17" monitor.
Double standard? Yup.
by
JonTurner
·
· Score: 2, Flamebait
Yeah, but everytime Microsoft gives away/subsidizes MS software to Schools/Universities the whole Slashdot world erupts into riot. The cries of "Monopoly!" and "brainwashing students" and "conflict of interest" are plentiful.
Now Apple decides to give away their next-gen OS and everyone here thinks that's a great gesture.
Double standard? Definitely. Hypocrytical? It sure looks like it.
Lets see... I just grabbed these in a few minutes of browsing. There could be better deals.
AMD Athlon XP 1600+ - $52.99 EPOX EP-8KHAL+ VIA Apollo KT266A - $77.00 Western Digital 80 gig 7200 RPM HD - $111.00 Crucial Micron pc2100 256M RAM - $64.99 Lite-On 16X DVD ROM - $42.00 Sound Blaster Live! - $34.00 Harman HK 19.5 SPEAKER - $29.00 Antec Case w/ 300W power - $55.00 Samsung SyncMaster 753DF 17" DynaFlate CRT monitor - $135.00 Logitec Optical mouse - $11.00 Logitec keyboard - $13.00 3COM 10/100 NIC - $26.00 Windows XP home - $90.00 and last but not least Sony 1.44MB 3.5 inch INTERNAL FDD DRIVE - $8.00
grand total: $ 804.98 shipped (prices calculated from newegg.com being shipped fed-ex saver to Georgia)
That's twice as good in most categories compared to the Imac (right down the number of mouse buttons).
Apple is in the business of selling hardware for more than it's worth. Giving away their operating system to teachers doesn't mean much since it can only be run on their hardware. (OS-X versions they're willing to release, at least)
OS X "Jaguwire" requires a 3d video card with T&L engine (ie, Nvidia geforce1 or ATI radeon +) the new Jag "makes your video card THINK the desktop is 3d, even though its just 2d" (Apple Computer) to accelerate and make the GUI faster (ie, its using OpenGL calls to draw some shit). Big deal. Apple wants to basically drop support for the old machines and that is why they don't let you run their new shit from older hardware.
I don't blame them.
Too many mac users (reason I specify 'mac' users is because mac users tend to think that mac's last longer than PC's for some reason, hint: they don't last longer) think apple's were ment to last a lifetime, then get pissed off at the store when they need a new $400 motherboard after the 1 yr warranty expires (yes, $400).
The faster apple can get rid of all the old machines being used, the less bitching and bad rep they get from broken hardware, and the more money into their pockets from new sales.
Before someone tries to refute my "lasts longer" statement. Please, don't compare emachines and $400 gateways and compaqs to eMacs. They aren't competitors. the price difference is far greater than 2x.
-- Two infinite things: your stupidity and mine. But I'm not sure about the latter. If my sig offends you, I'm sorry.
Re:wash repeat...
by
gabba_gabba_hey
·
· Score: 0, Flamebait
Occasionally, I substitute teach...
In exchange for free TVs in every room (and the cable infrastructior [sp] along with it)...
Maybe if you worked on your spelling they'd let you teach more often;-)
Explain to me why easy-to-use, effective and free movie and image editing software is good for education so I won't be pathetic. I don't see where this free software is useful in a math class. Are students going to video tape their book reports? Is that the purpose of a book report, to put on a show? Or is it to learn how to critically read the material, formulate an argument, and present it in front of people? What about chemistry class? A student could video the experiments, add commentary, and show it around. But, the purpose of the experiments was to have hands on experience following procedures, recording observations, handling the equipment, measuring, etc. It was not to see the red liquid turn clear. If that was the purpose, teachers would only show video tapes of experiments done by professionals and the school could forgo the expense of a chemistry lab.
These tools could be useful in education. But to what end? At what expense? With what trade-offs.
I looked at Apple's website again, as you asked, but, without a thorough search, I found only one instance of a teacher using the iTools. She was a professor and she used the tools, not the student. I would also argue her use of the tools was excellent. But, I've also seen video tapes of professional documentaries that had the same type of information.Cost of the video tapes, $60. Cost of her Mac, $1100. Sure, she'll be able to make more videos for her class without paying again for the Mac, but that is about 18 videos. I wonder how many years it will be before she has the time and inclination to create 18 videos in support of her class teaching? Will it be before she feel's compelled to purchase a new machine?
Reading my original post I realize that I didn't make my points clear. I was ranting. Basically, what I want to say is that a computer + free software (whether Linux, OS X, GNU, or Microsoft) does not make an educational tool instantly. Just because it has software that "could" be put to education use doesn't mean that using it is a good use of time for the educator or the student. Teachers have a limited amount of time with the children and I question whether that time should be spent with either of them in front of a computer when it isn't the best tool for the job.
I can purchase 30 computers, stick them in a lab and have my 4th graders come in and use a math program that drills them on multiplication. That's 15k in computers at a minimum, plus the cost of a lab person to administer the machines. They will be put to use by multiple classes througout the week. Or, I could buy 15 sets of flash cards and pair the students up and have them drill away with each other. The flash cards will last longer than the computers. The students learn the same skills, and they arguably learn them in a better way because they are interacting with a real person who will be more sensitive to mistakes and probably help guide them to better answers.
Yeah, it just has a paltry 4.5 billion. Peanuts.
There are counties in the U.S. where the starting salary for teachers qualifies them to live in government subsidized housing. Few such teachers can afford to blow $1,200 or more on an iMac.
Here's a wild idea: Apple could price their computers such that an entry level iMac costs what an entry level Intel-architecture PC does. They could stop trying to be the Bang & Olufson of computers and build machines that teachers and students could readily afford. Not only would that get teachers and students on board, but also make the machines more appealing to the public at large. Instead, Apple seems to be doing just the opposite by integrating expensive LCDs into their entry level iMacs and not selling an entry level machine sans monitor so that consumers can go to Best Buy and purchase a cheap 15"-17" monitor.
Yeah, but everytime Microsoft gives away/subsidizes MS software to Schools/Universities the whole Slashdot world erupts into riot. The cries of "Monopoly!" and "brainwashing students" and "conflict of interest" are plentiful.
Now Apple decides to give away their next-gen OS and everyone here thinks that's a great gesture.
Double standard? Definitely. Hypocrytical? It sure looks like it.
Lets see... I just grabbed these in a few minutes of browsing. There could be better deals.
AMD Athlon XP 1600+ - $52.99
EPOX EP-8KHAL+ VIA Apollo KT266A - $77.00
Western Digital 80 gig 7200 RPM HD - $111.00
Crucial Micron pc2100 256M RAM - $64.99
Lite-On 16X DVD ROM - $42.00
Sound Blaster Live! - $34.00
Harman HK 19.5 SPEAKER - $29.00
Antec Case w/ 300W power - $55.00
Samsung SyncMaster 753DF 17" DynaFlate CRT monitor - $135.00
Logitec Optical mouse - $11.00
Logitec keyboard - $13.00
3COM 10/100 NIC - $26.00
Windows XP home - $90.00
and last but not least
Sony 1.44MB 3.5 inch INTERNAL FDD DRIVE - $8.00
grand total: $ 804.98 shipped
(prices calculated from newegg.com being shipped fed-ex saver to Georgia)
That's twice as good in most categories compared to the Imac (right down the number of mouse buttons).
Apple is in the business of selling hardware for more than it's worth. Giving away their operating system to teachers doesn't mean much since it can only be run on their hardware. (OS-X versions they're willing to release, at least)
I should hope my teachers are smarter.
OS X "Jaguwire" requires a 3d video card with T&L engine (ie, Nvidia geforce1 or ATI radeon +) the new Jag "makes your video card THINK the desktop is 3d, even though its just 2d" (Apple Computer) to accelerate and make the GUI faster (ie, its using OpenGL calls to draw some shit). Big deal. Apple wants to basically drop support for the old machines and that is why they don't let you run their new shit from older hardware.
I don't blame them.
Too many mac users (reason I specify 'mac' users is because mac users tend to think that mac's last longer than PC's for some reason, hint: they don't last longer) think apple's were ment to last a lifetime, then get pissed off at the store when they need a new $400 motherboard after the 1 yr warranty expires (yes, $400).
The faster apple can get rid of all the old machines being used, the less bitching and bad rep they get from broken hardware, and the more money into their pockets from new sales.
Before someone tries to refute my "lasts longer" statement. Please, don't compare emachines and $400 gateways and compaqs to eMacs. They aren't competitors. the price difference is far greater than 2x.
Two infinite things: your stupidity and mine. But I'm not sure about the latter. If my sig offends you, I'm sorry.
Occasionally, I substitute teach...
;-)
In exchange for free TVs in every room (and the cable infrastructior [sp] along with it)...
Maybe if you worked on your spelling they'd let you teach more often
Explain to me why easy-to-use, effective and free movie and image editing software is good for education so I won't be pathetic. I don't see where this free software is useful in a math class. Are students going to video tape their book reports? Is that the purpose of a book report, to put on a show? Or is it to learn how to critically read the material, formulate an argument, and present it in front of people? What about chemistry class? A student could video the experiments, add commentary, and show it around. But, the purpose of the experiments was to have hands on experience following procedures, recording observations, handling the equipment, measuring, etc. It was not to see the red liquid turn clear. If that was the purpose, teachers would only show video tapes of experiments done by professionals and the school could forgo the expense of a chemistry lab.
These tools could be useful in education. But to what end? At what expense? With what trade-offs.
I looked at Apple's website again, as you asked, but, without a thorough search, I found only one instance of a teacher using the iTools. She was a professor and she used the tools, not the student. I would also argue her use of the tools was excellent. But, I've also seen video tapes of professional documentaries that had the same type of information.Cost of the video tapes, $60. Cost of her Mac, $1100. Sure, she'll be able to make more videos for her class without paying again for the Mac, but that is about 18 videos. I wonder how many years it will be before she has the time and inclination to create 18 videos in support of her class teaching? Will it be before she feel's compelled to purchase a new machine?
Reading my original post I realize that I didn't make my points clear. I was ranting. Basically, what I want to say is that a computer + free software (whether Linux, OS X, GNU, or Microsoft) does not make an educational tool instantly. Just because it has software that "could" be put to education use doesn't mean that using it is a good use of time for the educator or the student. Teachers have a limited amount of time with the children and I question whether that time should be spent with either of them in front of a computer when it isn't the best tool for the job.
I can purchase 30 computers, stick them in a lab and have my 4th graders come in and use a math program that drills them on multiplication. That's 15k in computers at a minimum, plus the cost of a lab person to administer the machines. They will be put to use by multiple classes througout the week. Or, I could buy 15 sets of flash cards and pair the students up and have them drill away with each other. The flash cards will last longer than the computers. The students learn the same skills, and they arguably learn them in a better way because they are interacting with a real person who will be more sensitive to mistakes and probably help guide them to better answers.