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Two Reviews of Debian 3.0
FrankNFurter writes "Debian Planet features a review of Debian 3.0 from a user's perspective. Time for a reality check, debianistas." And twstdr00t writes "Linuxwatch.org has posted their review of Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 Woody. 'The package managment system is nice and easy to use. But the lack of good configuration and installation takes that all away from Debian.'"
The article does discuss the Progeny Graphical Installer, which is being included in the next release. The last time I used this installer was roughly a year and a half ago. I could install a progeny 1.0 system in 25 minutes flat with this installer.
/etc/apt/sources.list to reflect the new base and downloading the updated packages.
Yes, the current installer stinks, and it needs much work to catch up to Mandrake, Red Hat and SuSE. But to move from the progeny to potato to woody releases was as simple as changing my
However, I have not had to reinstall my primary system in a year and a half. I cannot say that for any other operating system. The stable archives work well together.
Debian: not for newbies. Higher learning curve than others. Worth learning if you want more control over your system.
The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them. -Einstein
Debian is NOT for first time linux users! Unfortunately, the reviewer(s) definitely sounded like they were anyway. Aside from dselect being a little daunting the first time you use it, the install is very easy. Dselect is very easy to use, after you hit ? and read the help page. Otherwise, don't bother.
I'm not really sure why the people at Linuxwatch need a Debian config generator.. XFree86 4 has included two generators that work fine for me. Oh, and I have a rather odd dual head system. Geforce2 and a Voodoo 3. XFree86 -configure, and xf86cfg. Is it really so hard to type those out?
For anyone with a clue, Debian is great! There are so many things that just *make sense* and are missing from other distros. For instance, the reason KDE's application menu was so hard to use as the review stated is because applications from DEB packages are automagically shared between window managers.
Debian is something that you either love or hate. I love it. Everything from the directory structure to the logs to the default application settings are wonderful. How many distros ship sendmail with smtp auth and TLS enabled? :) If you are an advanced user don't let the review fool you. Give it a chance!
Check out Gentoo Linux [gentoo.org].
I tried it, went back to Debian
The only downside is it will take a while to build X, or any other large package(Gnome, KDE, etc).
You can say that again. On average, a package takes about twice as long to download in source form than in binary form. Also, source takes about as much time again to build. So all up, you're looking at about 4 times as long to install a given Gentoo package as the same package on Debian.
While Gentoo takes you close to the bleeding edge, and while its build system is well put together, it is a far more complicated process to set up a system to your tastes than it is with Debian. You need to know a lot of esoteric internals with some key packages, and are left in a position of often having to beg for help on the #gentoo irc channel.
After going back to Debian sid, I was surprised to find that Debian goes from power-up to usable desktop in 2/3 of the time Gentoo takes (which is 1/2 the time Mandrake takes).
In conclusion, there is no bliss which compares to an installed and working Debian desktop. The installer might not be pretty, but once you're up, you can trust apt-get to add anything you want, to a state which actually works.
-- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
apt-cache is pretty useful as a search utility. "apt-cache search " usually gives me what I need.
Anything worth doing is worth doing badly -- G.K. Chesterton
My first distro was Debian. I love the apt system. I cannot, however, live without software RAID.
/dev/hda1, then move that to /dev/md0. Too much work for too little return. If your distro doesn't support my needs, there are hundreds more that do.
After booting the Woody CD, I tried "modprobe md", only to discover that it isn't supported. I went on the assumption that it was compiled in, but alas, "mkraid" was nowhere to be found. The only real option was to install to a
I'd also like to see a source compile option added. If apt was combined with Gentoo's emerge, Debian would be almost unstopable.
I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
I wonder where this apparent perception that Debian GNU/Linux for newbies (on the part of the reviewers) comes from. Debian is not for newbies. What, do these people think that because Debian sounds friendly, its somehow for newbies?
No, its not. Debian-based Lindows and Libranix are for newbies.
Debian is for experts. Anyone *can* install it and get it set up to their liking, but it won't be fun. It will require knowing your exact hardware specs, exactly what you want, and reading alot of manuals. The only people who will easily navigate their way around installing and configuring Debian are people coming from Slackware, Gentoo, OpenBSD, minix, or other hard-core UNIX-like OS' even more hard-core than Debian.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
dselect's interface leaves some to be desired. I don't see the validity of your point, dselect has a HUGE database of packages in a non-intuitive text interface, if you don't know what you're looking for, I don't see how dselect helps at all.
Am I missing something?
When all freedom is outlawed only the outlaws have freedom
I'm not entirely comfortable with the premise of this review. Thi author prefaces the review with this:
The Redhats and Mandrakes of the world are dependant upon user adoption because they have a financial interest at stake. User adoption means increased revenue, and with that, provided they run their business well, financial success.
In courting users, Corporate Linux vendors have to appeal to as broad a cross-section as they can, in an effort to become all things to all people. There's nothing wrong with this, and I applaud their efforts, but there's no reason to hold Debian to the same standard as distributions with mass-market appeal.
The Debian project does not cater to the same people, nor are it's goals in line with these other Linux distributions. Those of us that choose to run Debian tend to look at issues other than "ease of installation," or "latest and greatest" software packages.
It is far closer to a server-class distribution than these others can claim to be, in my opinion.
When I'm looking to play Quake III, I don't install it on my server. I install it on my desktop system, where I run Mandrake.
When I want to ensure that my infrastructure is sound and stable, I run Debian. I want my upgrades to come off without a hitch. I want to upgrade in place, with little to no downtime. I don't want to worry about dependencies that need to be satisfied. I want it all to happen cleanly, and efficiently.
Debian is unmatched when viewed from that perspective. If the Developers decide to allocate their time and resources toward a fancy installation routine, that's fine, but it's not what concerns me most. I hope they never sacrifice the things they do well so that they can chase after the userbase. It's a niche distribution that suits me just fine the way it is.
For those that would die defending it, Freedom
has a sweet taste that the protected will never know.