Financial Institutions Balk at MS Licensing

mmol_6453 writes "Now, not only are hospitals groaning under the combination of Microsoft and the HIPAA, but banks are having issues relating to federal privacy laws. Favorite line: 'Microsoft has told...that it plans eventually to eliminate users' ability to disable Microsoft's access to their systems.'"

Comments

Trojan Horse?

[mdechene]

And in other news, Microsoft becomes the first fortune 500 company to trogan horse an operating system.

Trust

[DoctorFrog]

Trusting the bank != trusting Microsoft. A bank that takes customer privacy seriously and switches away from using Microsoft products has a better chance of getting my business. Pity my account is so small... :(

Probably a misquote

[0x0d0a]

Notice that everything he's directly quoted on in the article is straightforward...and then a completely bizarre indirect quote.

Most likely he gave a bunch of examples of macro viruses or undocumented APIs and the reporter decided to "condense" things a bit.

Re:Probably a misquote

[Dynedain]

Exactly.

When a reporter was writing an article on my company, we were asked what software packages we use (we mentioned both 3D Studio and Maya).

When we go the first draft of the article passed by us, the reporter had written that we used Maya on a certain major project for a whole slew of reasons, when in reality, we had been working exclusively in 3DStudio for that project.

What we had said was that Maya and 3DStudio were both good programs for all those reasons. We never mentioned what package we were using on that project but the writer had 'condensed' the quotes, to the point where it was false.

Its like condensing this quote from the Bible: "Thou shalt not kill." to this: "Thou shalt ... kill."

Hard to fathom

[SgtChaireBourne]

I can see reasons for and against (mostly against) running Win2000 on workstations. But given the licensing and security problems to date with WinXP and various service packs, I still find it hard to believe that anyone requiring privacy of data or security would consider istaying with MS-Windows even for the workstations. There are neither technical reasons nor financial reasons to use it on any of the infrastructure, at least none that stand scrutiny.

Arguments against using Macintosh or Linux usually center on retraining issues. However, heavy retraining occurred when migrating between Win3.11, WinNT, Win2000, and - for the chumps - WinXP. So if you have to retrain anyway, then why not go with something easier to both use and maintain like Macintosh OS X or Mandrake/Redhat?

When you consider the bizarre nature of the service pack EULAs, the migration to Macintosh or Linux should be the obvious choice to anyone that can read English.

Re:Hard to fathom

[Dynedain]

its not retraining....

its software, software, software

Find a *nix based CAD package that compares to AutoCAD. In terms of 3D, Maya is as usable as 3D Studio, but costs twice as much. And Gimp has absolutely nothing on Photoshop (I use both). Music Editing/Sound Engineering? forget it. Tax and Accounting packages (QuickBooks, TurboTax, etc.) - not there.

Although the training is a big issue (hint, its training end users in new software thats expensive, not the OS training), the big concern is software availability. What good does having the option of 30 different email clients if you cant do the major task that your company pays you to do.

Financial institutions??

[Polo]

Heck, EVERYONE Balks at MS Licensing.

How many people have passed on XP because of the licensing crap? I'll bet a LOT of people have.

I have, and it has nothing to do with piracy.

An unusual prediction

[astrashe]

I think that MS is going to back off on a lot of this stuff, probably even Palladium in its most extreme form.

Their strategy at the highest level seems to be two pronged. On one hand they want to gather up all of the power and control of the monopolist, and on the other hand, they try to respond to customers as if they had to compete.

I know that a lot of people are skeptical about the last part of that, but I believe it. They backed off of the passport nightmare to a large extent.

There are lots of smaller things they've backed off on as well -- their first incarnation of their anti-piracy measures would have made it impossible for corporate users to roll out systems using software like ghost, but they backed down on that, and that concession has had a real effect on the ease with which one can pirate their software.

The banks have a real problem, and MS is going to have to address it or lose the business. I think they're going to address it.

The big conceptual problem, I think, is to consider MS to be a monolith. There are people who are pushing for this stuff, and there are others who are talking to the customers who are screaming bloody murder.

In the end, they will have to listen to their customers.

Re:An unusual prediction

[Verteiron]

This is how you make horrible things happen: propose something truly nasty, and let users and techies make a huge fuss about it. Then back down from the worst practice due to "customer input" and simply go forward without the top 5% of the bad stuff. Now MS has implemented 95% of their bad stuff, but techies and consumers don't mind because they've now Made a Difference.

Lather, rinse, repeat...

All missing the point!

[krazyninja]

We are all missing the point. The point is, where is Warby, and others like him going to go? The moment he takes his eyes off Microsoft, there is *no* other singly unified system, that can provide both ease of use, and integration. He has to worry about retraining his staff. That is why most admins think that "a known devil is better". Unless other backend server vendors like Novell/oracle come up with a better, unified proposition, it is going to be a tough sell.

Re:All missing the point!

[Corrado]

I think Apple should step up and fill the gap. They have very capable machines and could support almost any business. Besides the power of the machines, the user experience is like no other. I love Linux, but I wouldnt give up my Mac for every day use.

They even have servers. With no license fees!!!

It's kinda funny; when we accuired a well known pizza chain they were using Macs. We "converted" them from those hethen machines. Now, it looks like they might have been right going with the Macintosh. At least from a legal/licensing point-of-view.

Re:All missing the point!

[IamTheRealMike]

Hmmm, perhaps, but Apple sell hardware primarily, and there's nothing wrong with the hardware most business has - the issue is with software.

A medium sized company can easily have 5000 desktops. The average price of a Mac is I'd guess about £1000, so that's a cool £5,000,000 (about $7,500,000) just to replace hardware that already worked? You might as well pay the fees to Microsoft, that's almost certainly cheaper. And don't forget that most businesses have at least 1 or 2 custom apps.

The obvious solution is Linux - with a decent set of administators Linux is within a year of being just great on the corporate desktop. The final usability problems are being hammered at a truly astonishing rate, and with tricks like CrossOver Office Server you can pay for 1 copy of Office (I guess it'd work with other programs too) but have it serve hundreds of desktops. Wine is so critical in these areas, for custom business apps, and the Mac has no equivalent, probably won't for some time, if ever.

Re:what other options would you suggest?

[Jouster]

Actually, there are three settings:

Off. Pops up dialog boxes and warnings: "DO YOU REALLY WANT TO DO THIS!?" sort of things. After clicking "yes" a few dozen times, WinXP no longer attempts to auto-update, and doesn't poll for update availability.
Automatic Download. Periodically (timeframe? anyone?) polls an MS server for updates, downloads them in the background, you have to click a little taskbar widget to install them.
Automatic Download and Install. Yep, just what it says: "Please, Microsoft, install arbitrary code on my system without alerting me!"

Of course, I'm currently leading an initiative to have all non-technical people required to set their level to "Automatic Download and Install", so I can only be a certain degree of harsh about what that means.

Jouster

Re:what other options would you suggest?

[pennsol]

As a street level tech mostly working on MS boxes I can be a tad upset about the "auto update" feature.. i've made so much money in billable hours on boxes that just needed windows updates and a disk defrag that i can't even count.. i usually charge $50 for this service and explain what i did and that they need to do it themselves evey once in a while... well i still get reapeat calls to do it about once every 10-12 months on most boxes..and they don't want to be bothered by learning to click on it themselves.. hey..let the little guy make a buck..:)

Re:Preventing piracy? ha!

[marauder404]

Piracy hasn't been eliminated, but it's way down. No longer can the office secretary pass the copy of XP that she got with her computer around the office. She has to go find a warez group on IRC or on Usenet, download the ISO, and then burn it to disc, which are skills beyond the average Windows user. Microsoft's activation policy solved what it set out to do: prevent casual piracy.

Re:Preventing piracy? ha!

[BrainInAJar]

So it turns casual pirates into seasoned ones?

People who have now found connections to a world of pirated software, right at their fingertips?

No - it's enforcing obsolence

[Analysis Paralysis]

By requiring a key to activate XP, Microsoft has the ability to force an OS upgrade simply by no longer issuing them. Therefore if (say) Windows YP is released and sells abysmally, MS can announce the withdrawal of keys for XP, forcing users to get YP should they need to reactivate. Instant sales boost, instant share price surge.

Re:Some corrections

[rseuhs]

You quietly assume that

• Microsoft actually does what they say they do. Last time I checked Microsoft didn't give any guarantees of what they do, just a bunch of webpages. (And even IF they would issue some kind of guarantee or agreement. They have broken such things in the past often enough)
• Microsoft installed the new EULA just for kicks and will never ever use the power to access YOUR system.

If lying to yourself makes you comfortable, well just keep lying to yourself.

Re:One thing to note

[Asprin]

So the question is, what on earth will compell them to drop Windows on the desktop? Because it's sure as hell not any of the issues we've seen so far.

When I can buy LeasePlus, Smart.alx and Great Plains Dynamics as ELF binaries.

Seriously, the reason small-medium businesses buy MS servers and workstations in the first place is because they need to run that one application that runs their business, and it only runs on MS because the vendor doesn't have the resources to devote to multiple platforms. For us, it's a combination of the apps I mentioned (and a couple of other minor ones).

There are hundreds (if not thousands) of small software companies that write, manage and maintain ONE niche-software app to run the businesses in their specific industry. They use MS tools and platforms because they are easy, cheap*** and ubiquitous. There is some competition, but it is limited by huge barriers to entry -- mostly, up-front capital and specific in-depth industry experience (for example: in order to write effective lease management and accounting software, you first have to know the leasing industry inside and out.)

Oh, and did I mention that we hate the software we're using, but so does everyone else. We're stuck with it because the only alternatives are either prohibitively expensive to switch or crummier or both. We're too small to pay someone develop custom software in-house, and our industry is too small to generate enough free-developer interest for a non-propretary/open-source solution to be practical.

There is only one way Linux is going to **REPLACE** the MS servers in our storage/mopcloset/utility/telco room: Our vendors need to start developing for Linux, or at least on an open platform like LAMP or WAMP that allows us to pick one or the other.

Why do you think monkeyboy gets so jacked up about DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! ?

Until then, Linux is going to have to run our web site and our email and be happy with that. There aren't enough open-source developers in equipment leasing.



*** "cheap" in a relative sense. Consider that we're going to send the equivalent of a small automobile to each of our two or three software vendors every year for the priviledge of being able to call them when their shitty, crappy, slow and bug-infested software takes a dump after an update all the while frustrated that we can't get working features we were promised three years ago when we bought the software for the price of a good-sized house.

But, you know what? Our business couldn't function without it.

Why doesn't the media talk to lawyers?

[sheldon]

Just seems rather odd, doesn't it?

All these articles from journalists complaining about Windows EULA, and quoting people at hospitals, financial institutions and so forth and asking them if they are afraid. But not once do they ever actually quote a lawyer who can interpret the real legal language.

I work for a Fortune 30 company, we're moving to XP. We're also a financial institution. Our lawyers looked over the licensing and saw nothing to be concerned with.

I've spoken to other people in this industry who are in the same situation.

It almost seems like the media is trying to promote FUD concerning Windows. Of course we all know that /. would never do something that hypocritical, right? I mean promoting FUD about Windows to further some weird Linux agenda.

You don't understand.

[RatBastard]

We're not talking programs like The Gimp or even Mozilla. We're talking professional grade applications that often have to follow Federal guidelines in their implementation. You can't just yank these programs and replace them with some home-grown FSF/GNU/OS replacement.

I haven't worked in the medical industry, but I have worked in the banking industry. They are in a very similar situation regarding software. There is no window shopping. You don't get to decide what platform these programs run on. You get what your vendor makes.

These programs must often follow stringent federal guidelines and the vendors often offer 24/7 live support (and I've called my vendor at 11:30pm on Christmas Eve and there was a knowledgable tech there to help me out).

Idealsim is a fine thing, but don't let it get in the way of getting your actual work done.