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Returning to School for a Better Degree?

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the disillusioned-with-the-current-degree dept.

HerbieTMac asks: "I graduated a few years ago (AB '00) from a decent school. Having worked my myself quite nearly to death, I am now the proud owner of two bachelor's degrees in Economics and Public Policy. I also have put in a couple of years working as a Computer Science TA for the masters program. Being older and arguably wiser, I find that I don't really like where I am going and instead want to pursue a PhD in physics. The problem is that most PhD programs require an undergraduate degree in physics first. Or at least a significant amount of classwork in the field. Most of my physics knowledge has come from self-study and bumming class notes from friends. I'd love to go back to school and do the work for the AB but most schools won't accept applications for a second (in my case third) bachelor's degree. Has anyone else decided that they really didn't want to work with the first degree? How did you go about convincing a school that you are a good bet? Or even to let you do some preparatory course work?"

9 of 60 comments (clear)

  1. Older and wiser? by xyzzy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I really hate to say this, but if you are legitimately older and wiser, you'd reconsider the PhD in Physics, unless you are REALLY in love with the field.

    In ~15 years in the computer biz, I have worked with numerous Physics PhDs who have gotten OUT of the field due to lack of jobs (since we stopped doing bombs in the 80s), lack of research funding, and lack of ability to make progress in the field.

    Again, I don't want to disuade you if you are really in love with the field. But remember, a PhD is a 4-8 year commitment, and you better know where you are going before you jump.

    I think the Economics and Public Policy gig, combined with a knowledge of computers (which I am assuming from your /. posting) is a hot combo, personally!

    1. Re:Older and wiser? by Chilles · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Your data set is screwed, all physics PhD's you meet have gotten out of the field already and therefore where not motivated enough or able enough to find a job in the physics field (or they felt the lure of IT money).
      If this guy is in love with the field he should go for it, physics needs motivated people, most physics students I know (myself included) get out of the field because they are unable to continually perform at the high intellectual level physics requires of them. To actually make a meaningfull contribution to physics these days you need to be one intelligent single minded dedicated person, It's just too damn hard for the rest of us.
      I would advice the original poster to honestly test his knowledge of physics and mathematics when compared to that of the physics bachelors/masters he knows. If he can convince his friends (who should be very sceptical if they take their own hard work serious) that he is at least at bachelor level in physics he should be able to convince a university.

    2. Re:Older and wiser? by rw2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Your data set is screwed, all physics PhD's you meet have gotten out of the field already and therefore where not motivated enough or able enough to find a job in the physics field (or they felt the lure of IT money).

      So how is his dataset screwed. All he said was that people were leaving it. The most plausible reason being one you yourself mention "the lure of IT money"

      The fact of the matter is that there are far more physicists graduating than there are physics jobs. Since he already has an Econ degree, I'll not bother enumerating what the does to physics salaries.

      If you love it, go into it. Be prepared not only for the educational cost, but the fact that you will likely be working for not much money for many years after you get your degree and that many physics positions that are available are as term employees and that even the above average will go through several terms before getting a 'real' job.

      Also be aware that physics is in many respects a government gig, and the government has dropped the physics budget every year for the last decade.

  2. What a mess by ivanandre · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you want to do a PhD in physics, believe me, you WANT to get an underdraduate title first... after all, physics is hard!

  3. government lab work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I wonder, you mentioned having an AB in Economics and Public Policy, did you attend the University of Chicago perhaps? Speaking as an alum myself I can understand your position. With how one takes a little bit of everything while at the UofC, it can be hard to figure out what it is you really wish to do for your career. I have undergraduate degrees in both Math and CS but working for a few years in the Sillicon valley really turned me off from the computer profession. By then I wanted to do something that really had some meaning and I was too old to reasonably continue in math so I took a job as a software engineer at a governemnt lab.

    If you want to work in the physics field you really do not need much of a physics background. For example much of experimental high energy physics and astro is done in large colaborations. They need computer programmers, sys admins, engineers, and technicans.

    You mentioned you have TA'ed for a Masters CS program. If this is the proffesional CS program from the UofC be sure to take the 'hard' courses. Most of that program is looked down upon by people in the know. When you are ready you can apply for a job at a national laboratory, say in the DoD or DOE. Look for work in in 'operations' on an accelerator, often this will be shift work, or in accelerator controls for example.

    Your coworkers will teach you what you need to know about physics to do your job and if you do it well you will be helping the collaboration do physics which is wgat you wanted. If you do indeed decide that physics is for you and you have some good luck, you may be able to do graduate research related to what you do, say accelerator operations, and have the lab fund a portion of it.

    1. Re:government lab work by HerbieTMac · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I feel like there should be some sort of secret handshake here. But what's the need when we can so easily identify the incidary markings of those years.

      I am curious; do you perceive your job now as meaningful? In other words, are you looking for something better? If so, what?

  4. Take time to make the right decision. by cybermace5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sounds like you have a little difficulty determining what you really want.

    Did it ever occur to you, while working toward you other two degrees, that it wasn't what you wanted to do? You could have switched majors and been much further ahead then where you are now, which is probably in debt and with two essentially worthless (for what you want to do) degrees.

    I suggest you pay more attention to what you're doing this time. Maybe find a way to work with actual physicists and determine if you like it.

    Whatever, it's just another "O Great Oracle of Ask Slashdot, guide me in my everyday life choices!" question.

    --
    ...
  5. Try a state university. by Eric+Green · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Middle-tier state universities (as vs. top-tier universities) typically don't care whether this is your second or fiftieth undergraduate degree. They get funded by the state based on how many bodies they have filling chairs, so most of them will accept you regardless as long as your transcript shows that you had at least a 2.5 GPA at your last university. Though I'll note that in many cases it's just as easy to get into a Master's degree program as it is to get another bachelor's degree at these universities (though you have to take the GRE and have a 3.0 GPA in most cases). For example, at the university I graduated from, many of the folks going for a MS in Computer Science had degrees in a wide variety of subjects. My TA when I was a freshman had an undergraduate degree in general studies!

    Eric Lee Green BadTux

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    Send mail here if you want to reach me.
  6. Dude, life in general sucks! by ecloud · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Nothing is what it seems. Most experiences are disappointing. Coding the same thing more than once is a bore; and each time, when you're finished the company dies and takes their proprietary software down with them, and you have nothing except the money you probably already spent, and your hard work never sees the light of day, or is properly rewarded if it does.

    Probably the best advice is if you have food on the table and a roof with a computer and a 'net connection under it, be happy; and if you like coding so much, get your thrills from releasing open source. A job is generally just a job - to support your habits.

    Maybe if you had an advanced degree you could work in a cool research lab, but otherwise the only real opportunities will be those you create for yourself.