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Nosy Vendors?
avante asks: "For reasons ranging from political to financial, we have convinced an organization who wants to use our software to use only Open Source and Free Software, including GNU/Linux as their operating system. Because they will need support, we decided to go with Dell, since we had heard that they distribute a free operating system with their computers. First, I found out that they only sell non-Microsoft OS's on their 'server' models, which cost several hundred dollars more than comparable 'desktop' configurations. Since our clients are a cash strapped not-for profit group, we decided to purpose a low price 'desktop' as a server, and suffer the expense of the superfluous OS. When the sales rep. at Dell was told of our decision, he became upset and began demanding explanations as to why we wanted to use a 'desktop' as a server, what version of GNU/Linux we had intended to use and other things that were not any of Dell's concern. This is not the first time this has happened to us. Has anyone else experienced this sort of hostility when you try to deviate from their pre-ordained sales path and use Open Source/Free Software?"
...which means your choice of software isn't their business. If they MAKE it their business, put them out of business.
'nuff said.
-- We live in a world where lemonade is artificial and soap has real lemon.
...but frankly, that is none of your business. If you choose not to support the software configuration I choose for this system, that is your option. However, I may use hardware I purchase in any way I see fit.
How hard it's going to be for him to get another job in Austin.
And then cancel your contract and buy your machines cheaper from a local white-box guy, which is what you should have been doing all along.
Dell has quit being it's own company and become a mildly independent subsidary of Microsoft sometime ago.
Then demand of him
his name,
his supervisor's name and phone number, and
the phone number of a DELL competitor which doesn't presume to tell customers how to use their machines.
Then tell him good-bye.
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
I put the boards together with a soldering iron.
I make the chips by melting sand.
And I like it.
Well, although the comments previous to mine vehemently disagree with me, the Hardware vendor needs certain information about your OS config, IFF you expect to receive any type of support from them.
Look at it this way -- if the server support desk is trained in handling Linux issues on Server hardware, but the Desktop Team is trained in handling Windows issues on Desktop Hardware, who will provide support for Linux Issues on Desktop hardware?
Their questions should be angled at finding the Business Problem, and recommending the appropriate solution, but sometime the implementers have already defined the Business Problem in technical terms. (Linux WILL run on Dell Desktop Hardware, for under $XXXX.XX). Now, the salesperson has to try and work with this to recommend a solution that fits those criteria, is supportable by Dell, AND is a solution that will not fall apart and make Dell look bad.
Of course, the sales person should be nice about, and not "demanding"....
10b||~10b -- aah, what a question!
I doubt he was being nosy because he cared about Linux either way. He was probably just being nosy because he was told to sell the more expensive "server" hardware whenever possible.
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
This does not have anything to do with open source, it's just good sales tactics on his part. He is a sales person who wants to know where his sales is going to. Don't try to make this an open source thing, it's not.
It is entirely possible that he was curious about exactly what you wanted the system to do, and trying to come up with the best deal he could make you....
of course, if he was confrontational about it, etc, that's rude, poor salesmanship, and terribly unprofessional on his part. He should have asked for clear specifications regarding your needs in the first place.
I've also learned through extensive experience dealing with vendors like telcos, circuit carriers, and colo providers that keeping control of a conversation with them, and keeping them focused on what you want or need, is an acquired skill. It takes patience, the ability to be manipulative, and the ability to put your foot down while not stepping on anyone. And most importantly, you must remain focused on your needs.
(well, ok, maybe there was this one hosebeast at this one telco that I wanted to step on...heheh...)
I should have picked out the nickname Demosthenes!Tecumseh.
Not actually being on the phone with the fellow, I don't know exactly how accurate your assesment(sp?) of his attitude was, but I think there is the possiblity that he could have been genuinely interested in the customer here. If Dell does not support linux on the configuration you were after, how do you expect them to support it? If they do not, why go through Dell in the first place? Find a white box locally. Also, perhaps he has been instructed to ask the customers about how they plan on using linux, so Dell knows better if/how to support linux in the future. They did at one point think/try putting linux on the desktop systems I believe. I don't think this guy is going to send out the elite dell stormtroopers to get you.
Norris/Palin 2012
Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
I work at www.guidestar.org and when we went about doing a complete server upgrade we were able to get LOTS of gear at steeply discounted prices or even free (our NAS/SAN I don't remember which).
We have one (an *excellent* one; Hi, Chris!) for our 100 person company, and get great prices on hardware no matter what we're using it for.
Dell only supports Linux on certain specific hardware combos for a reason - they've tested it and written the support book for it. If you're getting software support from them, the sales guy was probably worried that you'd expect Linux support on a system that they don't have support docs on.
That said, what's your budget? I've gotten decent servers with Linux support from Dell for $2K...it's often worth the little extra to get a unit you *know* Dell will stand behind for 3 years with a next business day repair contract.
As an aside, Dell has great laptops - they're not the sexiest out there, but the 3 year, onsite, next business day complete-care warranty rocks. You can break the LCD screen and they'll still replace it. Even if you run over the laptop with your car...(it's happened to us. Just make sure it's an accident.)
No, I don't work for Dell, or live in Texas. I just like their kit for corporate use. I roll my own at home. ;-)
"Can't do that, " he said. "Would void the warranty."
Void the warranty? Apparently. So, he finally talked me into looking at their server line. Amazingly enough, we ended up with a "server" option that was $400 less than the workstation configuration.
Why was the sales rep "told of your decision" at all? I don't buy a new car and then call and tell the car salesman that I'm lowering the suspension, adding a NOX system and that I'll be listening to Dirty Vegas in the CD player. Sounds like you have a political issue you're trying to push to someone who couldn't pass his/her calculus class and became a "sales rep". Just buy the box and skip the whining.
I know that this doesn't quite answer your question, but I believe that your question has a fundamental flaw.
Dell's servers are not necessarily more expensive than their desktops. They have a wide range of servers, the lowest end are far cheaper than any desktop that they sell.
See this page for their introductory range of PowerEdgeSC servers -- which start at $349 (probably closer to $5-600 for something usable with a good warranty). Try to get a Dell desktop for that little. (Yeah -- I know their higher-end systems can get pricey fast...)
As far as dealing with the vendor -- how difficult is it to tell hime that he is out of line? Maybe get his name and his manager's number. You are the customer, aren't you?
I buy Dell computers for a small business almost daily, and I've never had a bad experience with them. Maybe its because I don't volunteer more information than they need. In any case, the bottom line is you are the customer, and you can tell your vendor to fuck off -- however, they will not do that to you...they need your business.
-Turkey
If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
"Dude, you're losing a sell!"
This is a bit of an ideological mish-mash, as Dell doesn't use standard parts on some (all?) of their desktop machines. Specifically, I know the power supplies and motherboards have weird power connectors on them, so you're forced to buy replacement parts (at higher prices) from Dell. Unless this has changed recently, that is. Buying hardware that is non-standard so you can run your ideologically pure OS on it is rather odd. I'm told Gateway does or did something similar.
Does anyone know of a hardware vendor that lets you buy computers without an OS, but uses ALL standard parts? And has really good service and support?
I'm a Mac consultant. (Yep, it's funny, too.)
There's still a few IT idiots and salespeople who think they're doing you a favor by encouraging you to drop what you have and know for their stuff. Wrong behavior. In enterprise, and even in small business, most of us already have our solutions. We just need the right technology to fit in. Arrogance from a salesperson is a sure way to have me show them the door, prematurely slamming it against their ass on their way out.
If a company cannot be flexible to the needs of a client, they will (and have) lost a sale for my customers. Period.
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
A far more likely scenario is that the poster has a lot of experience setting up and/or managing servers, while the Dell sales rep has a lot of experience using handsomely-printed charts from HQ in Austin to figure out which equipment to sell to which customers.
One of these people has the requisite experience to adapt appropriate tools to the job. Guess which one?
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -- GBS