Posted by
ryuzaki0
on from the does-this-thing-ever-end dept.
T-Kir writes "The BBC has an interesting article saying that now Microsoft has had the settlement granted in the US, it still faces EU sanctions concerning software bundling (or should that be bungling?) into its OS and deliberate attempts at inoperability with non-MS server operating systems."
Three problems
by
MosesJones
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
1) US courts regularly deny the authority of courts abroad
2) US courts regularly assume their rules apply abroad.
3) When the EU has ruled against US product before (growth hormone is not allowed in beef sold in the EU) the US claims it is a restraint of trade and raises it to the EU.
So what will probably happen is MS will rightly be found guilty, they will ignore the remedy, and when it is enforced they will bleat to the president who will "defend US interests", he will ignore the rights of foreign courts and claim this is purely anti-competative and anti-US rather than being a different resolution applied to EXACTLY the same finding of guilt found in the US.
Personally I hope the EU stands up and gives them a bloody nose, and makes its move over to Open Source even quicker.
-- An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Re:Three problems
by
albanac
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
All of your points are accurate. WRT the first two, however, there is no way the US could (under legal arenas) challenge an EU court ruling, and I don't think they'd be stupid enough to try. The one piece of information you didn't catch is that some four months ago, when the EU declared it's intention to pursue MS independently of the US DOJ, the State Deparmemnt immediately issued sabre-rattlings to the effect that if the EU attempted to do anything different or more realistic than the DOJ had done, the US would embark on an immediate and GDP-wide trade-war against the entire EU, covering everything from steel to immigration visas, until the EU backed off. The EUs response was to ignore them.
~cHris
Re:Three problems
by
pubjames
·
· Score: 5, Informative
1) US courts regularly deny the authority of courts abroad
2) US courts regularly assume their rules apply abroad.
This stuff doesn't really matter but the EU is dealing with trade within the EU zone. So it doesn't really matter that much what the US thinks. And don't assume that the US can just do whatever it wants and get away with it. There's something called the WTO, which has ruled heavily against the US and in favour of the EU recently with regards to steel tarrifs. It's true that the US is a big bully, but the EU is growing and seems increasingly confident fighting back.
Tough Cookie
by
mmport80
·
· Score: 5, Informative
For those who don't know much about the EU's competition commisioner - he is a tough cookie and isn't afraid to take on large companies.
Look at what he did to Nintendo recently and also the $45bn GE and Honeywell merger - which he basically stopped - even thought the US would have allowed it. The last case shows what the competition commision thinks about "consistency".
Re:Does the EU have power?
by
BabyDave
·
· Score: 5, Informative
Could someone explain what the EU has power to do?
Seems to me like they couldn't do much...
What the EU can do...
by
MosesJones
·
· Score: 5, Informative
1) Fine MS, this could be a small amount (say similar to the $150m it fined Nintendo) or a large amount (its MS what should the limit be).
2) Reorganise the way MS products are classified which could change the way they are taxed.
3) Ban certain products from being sold in the EU.
4) Declare certain individuals to be culpable for the violations and have them subject to arrest if they enter the EU.
Quite a few other things, saying they can't do much is like when President Bush demanded the Chinese do nothing to that spy plane.... so they sent it back in crates.
-- An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Re:Does the EU have power?
by
meringuoid
·
· Score: 5, Informative
Could someone explain what the EU has power to do? Seems to me like they couldn't do much...
They can't split Microsoft, because they're a foreign corporation. They can, however, impose conditions on Microsoft which they will have to obey if they want to continue doing business in the EU.
It's unlikely to come to a trade war; EU business is too addicted to MS software to allow Brussels to impose punitive tariffs, for instance. Chances are MS will be fined a comparatively small amount and told not to do it again...
-- Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Re:Does the EU have power?
by
Shimbo
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
Could someone explain what the EU has power to do? Seems to me like they couldn't do much...
I remember when Oem's were selling beOS in a dual boot configuration with Microsoft. Microsoft began using its market control to force the Oem's to drop Beos. BeOS is a dead OS now but it was very good at what it did and had potential. But in the market environment it had no chance. This isn't just Linux getting better than Windows, it is about the software that was better than Windows getting a chance. If Microsoft didn't force BeOS out of the ipaq they would have had capital to keep developing. If they would have had device manufacturers working with them instead of scared of losing the works with window logo on their packaging it would have had more hardware support. And this is just one example of the problem with a monopoly affecting innovation. There are more out there. So by all means for me it is not about Linux or Microsoft, it is about a market that allows the best product to surface.
-- I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said: "I drank what?" - Chris Knight (Val Kilmer)- Real Genius
Re:Does the EU have power?
by
MoobY
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
> Could someone explain what the EU has power to do?
Note that Europe is growing bigger than the US every minute, not only in population, which will soon be over 500 million (200million more than the US, IIRC), but also economically. Europe isn't some small kid the US can wack down! It's insane to think that Europe doesn't have any power and pretty US-narrow-minded.
-- ---
Sigmentation Fault - Comments Dumped
It's not about you...
by
danro
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Keep in mind that there are over 60 thousand employees at Microsoft. All of us have families and mortgages to pay just like you
And what those 60 000 people do, or more to the point, what their executives do effects millions of people all over the world in a negative way.
No wonder people are "anti-microsoft". I have no beef with MS emplyees, but the pracices of MS the company is a daily annoyance to me and gets _me_ home later to _my_ family.
Even if you work at MS you must be blind not to see why a lot of computer professionals have no trouble finding reasons to dislike MS products.
...and of course there is the howling mass of teenage slashroids. They annoy me too sometimes.
--
"First lesson," Jon said. "Stick them with the pointy end."
EU is different from US courts
by
Alain+Williams
·
· Score: 5, Informative
M$ is not an corporation from an EU country, there is no direct economic advantage to the EU of supporting M$'s illegal activities.
The powerful EU officials are not directly elected by the populace; so they are not quite so easy to buy.
A change of administration in one EU country is not so far reaching as the change in a single country (ie the US).
Individual countries have also expressed strong interest in Open Source.
Most likely EU response
by
ites
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Will be a punative fine set high enough to hurt Microsoft.
The US response will be very significant. If the US government complains and retaliates, its intentions WRT Microsoft will be clear.
If OTOH the US government keeps quiet, as it did with the Honeywell case, MS is in for a beating in Europe.
It cannot afford to stop trading in Europe. It cannot escape a fine, since it has a financial presence in Europe.
The EU may choose to combine this with other moves, such as a well-timed announcement that Windows will be phased out in favor of Linux, Sun, and IBM products in the EU itself.
Microsoft only really has one card to play, and that is bribery and corruption.
-- Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
Re:Basically, the EU is mean to american companies
by
ninthwave
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
I lived in the US for the first 28 years of my life. For the last two years have lived in Europe and your comment about the EU decisions makers not being knowledgable in the computer technical issues as the american judges is just complete bullshite.
The GM food issue isn't just a government issue it is a populace issue. If the government accepts gm food here they will have voters voting them out. The people don't want GM food at this point in time, the governments generally want the GM food business but they don't have the popular support to do it. So the ban on GM food isn't a trade issue as it is a consumer issue. Consumers won't buy food.
The banan fiasco was that, but the US has some silly trade mark games not
-- I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said: "I drank what?" - Chris Knight (Val Kilmer)- Real Genius
You troll, I byte
by
CaptainZapp
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Basically, the EU is mean to american companies
No, the EU (or better, their competition commision) is mean to anybody who violates the law. Ask Volkswagen, Tetra Pack or Roche, which are all European companies (they are nummerous more).
Recall that the heavily subsidized Airbus was started by these people basically because they didn't like having to buy american planes.
Ah, here we go again. The Airbus consortium is a private company which received funding capital as a credit. Airbus is in no way subsidized nowadays as opposed to (e.g.) Boieng which relies heavily on defense contracts, which can be construed a subsidy in itself.
The reason why Airbus is vastly successful is that they sell better planes which are cheaper to maintain. At least that's the take of a lot of airlines, including major ones in the US.
and how europe has basically banned american GM food?
The issue is (same as with growth hormones, which are banned here) that European consumers just don't want to buy this crap. Don't you think it's a little bit odd that Novartis is heavily opposed towards GM crop in Europe and tell an entire different story in the US? In a nutshell: It's not an evil conspiracy towards the good people of the US (Novartis and Aventis are European companies after all) it's just that consumers - with the ultimate buying power - don't want this shit here; end of story.
I wouldn't count on microsoft getting off easy in europe.
If they violated the law, which is subject of an ongoing investigation, you can bank on it that they won't get off easy.
The EU decisions makers are also not as knowledgable in computer technical issues as even the virtually computer-illiterate american judges.
I'm sure you can provide us with data to back up this assessment; because otherwise: Go away, troll!
-- ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
The parable of the selfish pricks
by
Anarchofascist
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
Keep in mind that there are over 60 thousand employees at Microsoft. All of us have families and mortgages to pay just like you...
Reminds me of a story...
One upon a time there was a dangerous slippery cliff at the end of a road before a little village.
Every so often travellers along the road would slip, slip, slip over the cliff edge and fall to their deaths; and be collected by the village funeral director. Or they would slip, slip, slip over the edge and be badly injured; and the village doctors and nurses would tend to their wounds.
Eventually the mayor of the town announced a fence should be built at the top of the cliff, warning people of the danger.
"No!" cried the doctors and nurses. "We have families and mortgages to pay with the money we get for treating the injured!"
"No!" cried the funeral directors and morgue attendants. "We need the money from the funerals to support our families and mortgages too!"
The mayor was saddened by this reaction, but decided upon a compromise. The fence would not be built, but a sign would be erected saying "please support the local economy - jump off the cliff!"
The sign was erected, and is still there this very day.
-- Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more, Or close the wall up with our American dead!
Slashdot Mirror
1) US courts regularly deny the authority of courts abroad
2) US courts regularly assume their rules apply abroad.
3) When the EU has ruled against US product before (growth hormone is not allowed in beef sold in the EU) the US claims it is a restraint of trade and raises it to the EU.
So what will probably happen is MS will rightly be found guilty, they will ignore the remedy, and when it is enforced they will bleat to the president who will "defend US interests", he will ignore the rights of foreign courts and claim this is purely anti-competative and anti-US rather than being a different resolution applied to EXACTLY the same finding of guilt found in the US.
Personally I hope the EU stands up and gives them a bloody nose, and makes its move over to Open Source even quicker.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
For those who don't know much about the EU's competition commisioner - he is a tough cookie and isn't afraid to take on large companies.
Look at what he did to Nintendo recently and also the $45bn GE and Honeywell merger - which he basically stopped - even thought the US would have allowed it. The last case shows what the competition commision thinks about "consistency".
Tell that to Nintendo.
1) Fine MS, this could be a small amount (say similar to the $150m it fined Nintendo) or a large amount (its MS what should the limit be).
2) Reorganise the way MS products are classified which could change the way they are taxed.
3) Ban certain products from being sold in the EU.
4) Declare certain individuals to be culpable for the violations and have them subject to arrest if they enter the EU.
Quite a few other things, saying they can't do much is like when President Bush demanded the Chinese do nothing to that spy plane.... so they sent it back in crates.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
They can't split Microsoft, because they're a foreign corporation. They can, however, impose conditions on Microsoft which they will have to obey if they want to continue doing business in the EU.
It's unlikely to come to a trade war; EU business is too addicted to MS software to allow Brussels to impose punitive tariffs, for instance. Chances are MS will be fined a comparatively small amount and told not to do it again...
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Could someone explain what the EU has power to do?
Seems to me like they couldn't do much...
Microsoft could be in line for fines totalling up to $2.5bn (£1.75bn) levied by the European Commission.
Nuff said.
I remember when Oem's were selling beOS in a dual boot configuration with Microsoft. Microsoft began using its market control to force the Oem's to drop Beos. BeOS is a dead OS now but it was very good at what it did and had potential. But in the market environment it had no chance. This isn't just Linux getting better than Windows, it is about the software that was better than Windows getting a chance. If Microsoft didn't force BeOS out of the ipaq they would have had capital to keep developing. If they would have had device manufacturers working with them instead of scared of losing the works with window logo on their packaging it would have had more hardware support. And this is just one example of the problem with a monopoly affecting innovation. There are more out there. So by all means for me it is not about Linux or Microsoft, it is about a market that allows the best product to surface.
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said: "I drank what?" - Chris Knight (Val Kilmer)- Real Genius
> Could someone explain what the EU has power to do?
Note that Europe is growing bigger than the US every minute, not only in population, which will soon be over 500 million (200million more than the US, IIRC), but also economically. Europe isn't some small kid the US can wack down! It's insane to think that Europe doesn't have any power and pretty US-narrow-minded.
--- Sigmentation Fault - Comments Dumped
Keep in mind that there are over 60 thousand employees at Microsoft. All of us have families and mortgages to pay just like you
And what those 60 000 people do, or more to the point, what their executives do effects millions of people all over the world in a negative way. No wonder people are "anti-microsoft".
I have no beef with MS emplyees, but the pracices of MS the company is a daily annoyance to me and gets _me_ home later to _my_ family.
Even if you work at MS you must be blind not to see why a lot of computer professionals have no trouble finding reasons to dislike MS products.
...and of course there is the howling mass of teenage slashroids. They annoy me too sometimes.
"First lesson," Jon said. "Stick them with the pointy end."
M$ is not an corporation from an EU country, there is no direct economic advantage to the EU of supporting M$'s illegal activities.
The powerful EU officials are not directly elected by the populace; so they are not quite so easy to buy.
A change of administration in one EU country is not so far reaching as the change in a single country (ie the US).
The EU has deomstrated an interest in Open Source:
EU Studies Linux Migration
Individual countries have also expressed strong interest in Open Source.
Will be a punative fine set high enough to hurt Microsoft.
The US response will be very significant. If the US government complains and retaliates, its intentions WRT Microsoft will be clear.
If OTOH the US government keeps quiet, as it did with the Honeywell case, MS is in for a beating in Europe.
It cannot afford to stop trading in Europe. It cannot escape a fine, since it has a financial presence in Europe.
The EU may choose to combine this with other moves, such as a well-timed announcement that Windows will be phased out in favor of Linux, Sun, and IBM products in the EU itself.
Microsoft only really has one card to play, and that is bribery and corruption.
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
I lived in the US for the first 28 years of my life. For the last two years have lived in Europe and your comment about the EU decisions makers not being knowledgable in the computer technical issues as the american judges is just complete bullshite.
The GM food issue isn't just a government issue it is a populace issue. If the government accepts gm food here they will have voters voting them out. The people don't want GM food at this point in time, the governments generally want the GM food business but they don't have the popular support to do it. So the ban on GM food isn't a trade issue as it is a consumer issue. Consumers won't buy food.
The banan fiasco was that, but the US has some silly trade mark games not
Check out this
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said: "I drank what?" - Chris Knight (Val Kilmer)- Real Genius
No, the EU (or better, their competition commision) is mean to anybody who violates the law. Ask Volkswagen, Tetra Pack or Roche, which are all European companies (they are nummerous more).
Ah, here we go again. The Airbus consortium is a private company which received funding capital as a credit. Airbus is in no way subsidized nowadays as opposed to (e.g.) Boieng which relies heavily on defense contracts, which can be construed a subsidy in itself.
The reason why Airbus is vastly successful is that they sell better planes which are cheaper to maintain. At least that's the take of a lot of airlines, including major ones in the US.
The issue is (same as with growth hormones, which are banned here) that European consumers just don't want to buy this crap. Don't you think it's a little bit odd that Novartis is heavily opposed towards GM crop in Europe and tell an entire different story in the US? In a nutshell: It's not an evil conspiracy towards the good people of the US (Novartis and Aventis are European companies after all) it's just that consumers - with the ultimate buying power - don't want this shit here; end of story.
If they violated the law, which is subject of an ongoing investigation, you can bank on it that they won't get off easy.
I'm sure you can provide us with data to back up this assessment; because otherwise: Go away, troll!
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
Keep in mind that there are over 60 thousand employees at Microsoft. All of us have families and mortgages to pay just like you...
Reminds me of a story...
One upon a time there was a dangerous slippery cliff at the end of a road before a little village.
Every so often travellers along the road would slip, slip, slip over the cliff edge and fall to their deaths; and be collected by the village funeral director. Or they would slip, slip, slip over the edge and be badly injured; and the village doctors and nurses would tend to their wounds.
Eventually the mayor of the town announced a fence should be built at the top of the cliff, warning people of the danger.
"No!" cried the doctors and nurses. "We have families and mortgages to pay with the money we get for treating the injured!"
"No!" cried the funeral directors and morgue attendants. "We need the money from the funerals to support our families and mortgages too!"
The mayor was saddened by this reaction, but decided upon a compromise. The fence would not be built, but a sign would be erected saying "please support the local economy - jump off the cliff!"
The sign was erected, and is still there this very day.
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more, Or close the wall up with our American dead!