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Moving Your Kids to Linux?
"My real motivation to do this is to save money and to teach my children that sometimes the best isn't always the most expensive. Also, being the cheap bastard that I am, I'm looking at all the money we've spent on Windows XP, Office and all the games over the years, and I'm wondering if there isn't a way to slowly supplant Linux into the mix and not sacrifice my children's computer experience but at the same time save some money and teach them something new.
My requirements are simple: I would like them to run their CD-ROM based games (which are mostly Director based games from Hasbro), and I would still like them to chat with their friends and also be able to play online Flash and Shockwave based games from Yahoo and Shockwave.
I believe I'm looking at an OpenOffice situation to replace Office, I suppose that would be fine and I think would work out (they aren't required to have perfect Word compatibility, its basically type a paper, and print it). For chat we're probably OK too, because something like GAIM would be fine -- Jabber based things would also be cool.
But my real concern is the CD-ROM games and Windows based games. I can't see my 3 year-old putting a CD-ROM into the drive and expecting it to auto-load and run like it does on XP -- without issues -- even with a perfect installation of WINE, hey, maybe I'm wrong, but is there a way to have it work as good as windows?
I've thought about loading up Mandrake and getting WINE working to see if it'll work out, but I'm not sure that I should waste my time, so I thought I'd ask some readers here if they're run into this situation and if I'm just crazy for thinking that this would be the wise thing to do at the expense of my children's computing experience."
Well, since you asked for advice on raising your kids:
Move them off the screen altogether.
Nothing is going to promote the development of bad O/S interfaces more than indoctrinating young children to their quirks and bad design.
Why not encourage books and hands-on creative outlets rather than computer screens? Do you think they really need to learn about computers at age 3 and 7? Maybe the 11 year old, but I shudder to think you would try to teach your kids ANY OS at such a young age.
Let them enjoy life for awhile before they have to deal with an OS.
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
...is to use both.
Have one PC for the things that they NEED Windows to run, and let them use it only for that. The other should run your free-OS of choice and related software.
As they grow older, teach them the difference, the improvements, and continue curtailing use of the Windows machine until it's just an expensive doorstop.
Very few migrations are successful when done immediatly and cold-turkey. Some are, but they are far and few between---especially when children are involved.
Kids' software generally isn't the most compatible stuff around -- there's just no reason to test on multiple units or port to multiple OSs due to its limited appeal. In order to get any kid's software to work, you're goign to have to fight like crazy to get them to work under windows emulators. Does this sound like the way to teach kids there's a "better way"...by fighting for hours to get software to run just to save $100 off the cost of a win2k license?
Kids' websites tend to be about the same. I run Opera and Moz at home and when my brother comes to visit we often discover that his favorite sites -- all flash intensive with tons of cool intel/windows only games -- don't work so hot. We have the same problem with my Mac.
As for open office...i'd have to say that it's not as kid friendly as MS office, which is NOT kid friendly at all. No office suite is. I pine for the days of Bank Street Writer.
If your kids are under 12, you're probably going to meet a lot of resistance to your plan. I don't think it's worth it...especially since it's so easy to teach kids WHY linux is good when they're older. Young kids don't understand the value of a dollar nor the importance of freedom and until they do it's silly to force it on them. When they hit high school, then's where you spring your plan -- by getting them their OWN pcs, older machines running Linux, for school use.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
Here's the problem as I see it: You want them to convert and you want to convert them over.
I think that, as you observed, since some things don't work as well as Windows, you'll have a problem if you try to get them converted.
My suggestion is to ensure that you can set up for them the majority of what they want, and then dual boot.
Make a point of never using XP yourself. Make sure you're seen in front of them running some really slick and attractive WM. With lots of shiney customizable things that can be tinkered with.
When they see you playing with it, they'll be interested. But if you put it in front of them and preach that "Its better! Its cheaper! Its magic sliced bread doohicky!" you won't get anywhere.
Let them have an account that'll let them do as much as possible that they could under XP, and let them tinker with it. They may tire of it, or they may be intrigued.
But either way, I bet you'll wind up with them learning less than if you tried to force them.
You say that kids shouldn't be indoctrinated in one side or the other, but you also say that they should just have Windows on the machine. How about you install multiple OSs and let the kids experience them all. That way they will have their own choice and they will be familiar with multiple environments. They'll know how to adapt to things being in different places, so that next time one of their OSs changes its UI, they'll be able to adapt.
I can't say that I don't give a fuck. I've just run out of fuck to give.
I've noticed a lot of people saying "Well, I put Linux on my mom's computer," and now someone wants to make their kids use Linux?
Your kids might grow up to be great sysadmins if you do that. But if they're aren't computer lovers, your kids will just end up having an adversarial relationship with computers, and another generation of technophobes will be born.
While it's true that kids are flexible, and won't have much trouble figuring out the differences between the Windows or Mac they use at school and the Linux box at home, cutting your kids off from games, homework assignments, etc just because you like Linux so much is a bit of a rash decision. Don't you want the best for them?
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
Its like with religion or politics, really young kids shouldn't just be indoctrinated in one side or the other just because thats what the parents prefer.
Actually, I disagree. Bring your kids up with what you believe in. When they're young, they'll follow along and soak it up. When they get old enough, they'll start to learn about alternatives and may want to explore them. This is where you as a parent should get out of the way.
- DDT
So long, michael. Don't let the door hit you...
it actually might be a fairly successful and worthwhile task to tackle. consider this:
back in the early 1900s and up to the present, though it's less prevalent today, a lot of children who were in american schools had parents who had immigrated from another country and were incapable of speaking english. they quite successfully learned to speak their parents' language at home, and english at school and with friends.
so here's my point: what's wrong with your children using linux/macos/etc. at home and another at school and other friends' houses? revolutions start small, don't they? just think how awesome it would be if your child were at a friend's house and said 'your computer can't do this? well mine can.' maybe it'd make someone else curious.
give credit where credit's due. kids are incredibly resilient (i'm learning this from my daughter as we speak). the more flexible and open you can keep them, even if it's by them using multiple OSes, the better off they'll be.
I've got my kids running Linux (Red Hat 8) on laptops (ages 12, 12, 14) for both school and home.
OpenOffice works fine for all their school work, and they connect fine to the school's wireless LAN. They can connect to the shared drive in school to save work, thanks to Samba.
However, web sites are a different matter. Linux doesn't do Director so they all were pissed about not being able to do much with Nick.com, Disney.com, CartoonNetwork.com, etc. until I got them all CrossOver Plugin and installed the Shockwave Director plugins.
Fortunately RealPlayer, Xine and MPlayer are good enough for playing all media content. This will be 100% true when Mplayer makes the latest install easier and handle Quicktime Sorensen better.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
I'm not sure of the mathematical words for the proof, but it goes like this:
Hmmm... the ages of the kids can be expressed as x, x+4, and x+8.
For x greater than 3:
x+4 mod 3 = x+1 mod 3
X+8 mod 3 = x+2 mod 3
Clearly, it's impossible for x, x+1, and x+2 to all NOT be divisible by three... The only way that x, x+4, and x+8 can all be prime is when x=3, which is kinda the "trivial" case.
There's no way to avoid hitting a multiple of three somewhere along the way.
The best computer you can give to your kids is one that powers on, boots, and doesn't do much else. Kids are really, really smart.
In my experience, very young people typically have few problems learning to use Linux, because they often aren't accustomed to using something else.
I didn't really start using a computer until my freshman year at college; I started out using Windows 98. The following summer I installed Red Hat 6.2, and I ended up using it full time w/few complaints. Interestingly, all my friends who thought the change was "pretty hardcore" had all grown up using Windows. Since I had really nothing to switch from, the transition was pretty easy.
Since your children are all relatively young, I don't imagine Windows is the only language they'll ever be able to speak, so by all means let them use Linux while it's easy for them. If you want them to play their old games, then run a dual-boot until they outgrow that software, and just stop buying new versions of Windows!
Anyhow,... I have 2 decent games boxes for my kids running windows, but I've also provided both vnc and shell (PuTTY) interfaces to my server and I'm encouraging my son (the girls just are NOT interested at this stage) to explore. Little progress so far, but he's at least poked around a bit.
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For great justice!
I'm not sure which is funnier - the troll of an original question ("I want Windows, only not") or the volley of "Keep using Windows" advice that followed.
You want to know why MS has a monopoly? You want to know why Linux isn't ready for primetime? Go back and read over the responses here. Even the most gung-ho Linux responses amounted to "This will be broken, these other things will require a lot of fiddling, some things may work, more or less, out of the box, and your children will be social outcasts because they don't use the same OS as everyone else."
Maybe our next milestone should be to make Linux kid friendly, where "kid" is NOT someone capable of recompiling and tweaking source code. A free alternative is a lot less compelling when it doesn't work as well as the paid options, and technical superiority amounts to a hill of beans when Linux is a painful experience for normal families.
Meanwhile, chalk me up on the "Keep using Windows" side. It's not exactly a case of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," but Windows is probably less broken than Linux in this situation.
MC