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Fox CEO Says Tech & Media Should Work Together

An anonymous reader writes "An article running on cnn.com talks about how Peter Chernin, CEO of Fox and COO of News Corp., says media and tech companies should work together in the best interests of both industries. It's an interesting new angle for them anyway, with the point exentuated by George Lucas (of American Graffiti fame!) showing up to say 'there is no free lunch'."

17 of 263 comments (clear)

  1. Wrong approach by tigress · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Piracy in all its forms is not a technical problem, but a social problem.

    Technical solutions to social problems will never succeed. Build a better lock? Someone will build a better lockpick. Unless the social problem is dealt with, the technical solutions will continue to fail.

    1. Re:Wrong approach by redfiche · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Absolutely right. If people don't want to pay for the product, improve the product. Any solution to the perceived problem of IP theft that involves denial of fair use will go over about as well as the Stamp Act. Provide easily accessible low-quality copies for free or near-free, and then charge for the high-quality, extra bells and whistles version. If it's a really good movie, chances are most of us are going to want to see it on a big screen, and we'll be willing to pay for the priviledge. IMO.

      --

      Brevity is the soul of wit

      -- Polonius

    2. Re:Wrong approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I hope you are not posting at work using work equipment and bandwidth. It would be theft too.

  2. Sorry, try again.... by imadork · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I'm all for the Entertainment industry cooperating with the Technology industry to combat piracy and make the world safer for Spiderman III. I'd love to see the Entertainment industry take advantage of Technology to reduce distribution costs and give people better quality stuff for less money, like the Technology industry has been doing for years.

    But I fear that the Entertainment Industry's idea of "cooperation" is saying that Technology needs to be crippled to prevent the Entertainment industry from becoming irrelevant. No compromise.

    As I've said here several times, (paraphrased from Steven P. Jobs himself), Piracy is a social problem, not a technological one. If content can be seen and heard, it can be copied, no matter what technological measures are put in place. If banning people from ever making any copies will never work, why not concentrate more on convincing people that they shouldn't make illegal copies, and making them want to buy legitimate versions even in the face of easy piracy?

    1. Re:Sorry, try again.... by laigle · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Very true. I'm all for fighting piracy. But the media outlets don't really seem interested in fighting piracy. They support a wide range of DRM measures, which will have no effect on pirates who will just download hacks. But they will prevent, or at least make it a huge and possibly felonious pain for me to watch DVDs I've paid for without buying a new protection-schemed disc and player every couple years, listen to CDs I bought on my computer, remix those CDs I bought as I'm legally entitled to do, record TV shows I'm going to miss, convert media formats for portability between locations/devices even when I own the underlying media, download songs that local artists have put out on the web for free, or use my computer to edit home movies because I don't have some MPAA-licensed watermarking system.

      The problem with the DRM campaign is that it isn't about piracy at all, it's about the **AA mobs getting their hands a bit deeper into our pockets by charging us for things we have the legal right to do for free, based on the idea that our legitimate property rights are the reason people are stealing things. The new TVs and stereos and computers and portable audio systems they're going to have legally mandated will cost the public billions, and will do no good since the same mandate won't be in place in Canada or Mexico or many a country served by FedEx. DRM is a debacle, and it needs to be stopped now. Set up licit systems that give people access to the things they want, make money off it legitimately rather than by influence peddling with our public officials, break up the illegal trusts and drop the price of CDs and DVDs to what they'd be without criminal inflation, bring in IRS auditors to get all the taxes these jerks aren't paying and find all the profits they're stealing from artists, then go after the holdouts who still want everything for free.

  3. The De-Anonymizing of "Evil Media Congloms" by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The smartest thing Chernin did was to get geek faves like Lucas and Jackson to speak on his cause's behalf. The second smartest thing was to play up the fact that the entertainment industry is more than just the "misguided artists" and the "evil fat cat suits," but includes all the blue collar workers found in any "normal" industry.

    So many times I read about the evil **AA's, as if people don't realize these trade industry groups exist to do the bidding, and often the dirty work, of the creative entities like Lucas. Valenti and Rosen are paid to be targets for the heat-seekers so that the creative brands aren't tarnished by politics.

    Chernin wisely realized -- and I've no doubt others in the entertainment industry who will be speaking publicly on this topic will realize also -- that Joe Sixpack doesn't give a rat's ass about some distribution exec in an expensive suit, but let the creator of Boba Fett get up there in a black turtleneck, and the crowd melt likes butter.

    Now that the gloves are really off in the fight for public opinion, this gets interesting...

  4. Yes, work together by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Media is holding the legislative gun to the head of Tech, and now suggesting that we "work together". They've already got a protection racket going over artists, now they're moving into extortion.

    I for one would prefer a world without blockbuster movies or obnoxious pop bands, so long as they keep their filthy coke-dusted hands out of my computer Tell those bastards to solve their own problems!

  5. DRM = Dirty Residual Monopoly by aphor · · Score: 2, Interesting

    DRM only helps the middlemen monopoly

    I work. I get paid. I stop working; I stop getting paid. Some people have set up systems with "residual" income. They want to work, get paid, stop working, and keep getting paid. That's the Metallica plan, and the Hillary Rosen plan (she gets paid for help running the residual income racket for Metallica).

    Without DRM, you make recordings/films, and give them away. Even if you charge for them and some people pay lots of people are going to see/hear it without you getting a dime from them. Then people (might, if your stuff doesn't SUCK) want to go see a live show or a big-screen showing of your work. You can charge admission to the closed event. You can show stuff in the event that you haven't given away. You stop working; you stop getting paid; you'd better have a savings plan!

    Residual income is not economic production. It is pure monopoly rent. Either you believe in competition and the marketplace or you don't. Art is better off without the strong controls of a "sponsorship" system where you need a rich person to give your work the thumbs-up before you are "let in" to the closed distribution system.

    The people pushing for DRM are the "golden handcuffs" vendors who offer the age-old devil's sell out contract. They would like to remove the option of not selling your soul. They almost have. This is not about making sure people pay for the art they see/hear. This is about media companies making sure there is no art without getting the biggest cut of the action.

    They want to throttle our art to decrease supply and advertise to bolster demand so they can raise prices and fatten up the margin. It is all about setting up a monopoly and price controls and other stuff that slips past the Sherman Act.

    They want to prevent artists from reaching people except through them. IT IS A RACKET!

    --
    --- Nothing clever here: move along now...
  6. Fix Courts so Existing Laws Work by Mad+Bad+Rabbit · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The real problem is the Federal Court System
    is far too slow, expensive, and overpowered
    for suing an individual pirate. What good is
    it to sue "WzDood345" for pirating $500 worth
    of music, if it costs $500,000 in legal fees
    and he/she just files for bankruptcy anyway?

    This isn't just a problem for the big media
    companies: it makes it impossible for indie
    content creators to sue pirates. Sony could
    in theory afford to waste $500,000 to make
    an example of a pirate. A garage band can't.

    Instead of draconian laws or orwellian DRM
    hardware, I suggest we need a simplified
    Federal Small-Claims Copyright Court, where
    copyright infringents less than (insert $$)
    could be handled pro-se (without lawyers).
    Then you, or Lars Ulrich, or anyone else
    could fill out some paperwork, explain the
    case to the judge in plain english, and
    collect $500 from WzDood345 for pirating
    your stuff.

    --
    >;k
  7. What he means is... by mouthbeef · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Fox Studios' President of Engineering, Andy Setos, wrote the "Broadcast Flag" Proposal that was brought to the Broadcast Protection Discussion Group. Then he, Intel and Mitsubishi gathered the biggest IT and CE companies in the world and asked them to agree to its provisions:
    • All open source digital TV and Software Defined Radio applications will be illegal
    • No digital output technology may be incorporated into DTV devices (including commodity general-purpose PCs) without Hollywood's permission
    • No digital removable media technology may be incorporated into DTV devices (including commodity general-purpose PCs) without Hollywood's permission
    Setos described this as a "well-mannered marketplace." This is the kind of co-operation that Fox wants from technology: roll over, bare your belly, and build only those devices that Hollywood grants permission for.
  8. That damned 'theft' argument again! by Interrobang · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm getting really tired of people equating copying information with 'theft.' Copyright breach it may be (an entirely different kettle of fish, as anyone who understand copyright knows), but theft it is not. The two circumstances are not even remotely similar enough to warrant such a comparison, and anyone who argues otherwise is committing a False Analogy fallacy. (Going into a store and "five-finger discounting" the actual CD is both theft and copyright breach, just to be sure we're clear on that.)

    Nothing has been "taken," nothing is "missing," and certainly nothing is "gone" when someone makes a digital copy of something -- unlike Chernin's False Analogy argument about dresses from Wal-Mart.

    That's not to say that copyright breach isn't some kind of crime, or that it's not wrong -- but, again, it's not "theft." And it's certainly more defensible (under certain circumstances -- notably our vanishing "Fair Use" and "Public Domain" provisions) than theft.

    As a final, waspish parting shot to the point that "all this theft is destroying the industry," Chernin should talk to "Frisky Dick" Richards, who plays "Violent J" in the Insane Clown Posse, which actively encourages people to download, copy, share, and, yes, even steal their work. (He might also try talking to Ron "Hitler" Barrassi of TISM about the same subject, if he thinks he can stand it. I want to sell tickets to that event!) Weirdly enough, ICP has two platinum records and a few gold records to their credit -- with NO airplay or video play -- and seem to be living proof that Chernin and all who sail with them are also committing a Slothful Induction fallacy. (In short, the evidence says Chernin et al's argument isn't true, but they believe it anyway.)

    1. Re:That damned 'theft' argument again! by siskbc · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm getting really tired of people equating copying information with 'theft.' Copyright breach it may be (an entirely different kettle of fish, as anyone who understand copyright knows [slashdot.org]), but theft it is not.

      Unfortunately, you seem to have no legal leg to stand on, though you might find a lot of like-minded geeks here. You are confusing the difference between legality and morality. Is it morally wrong to copy a CD? That's pretty much for you to decide. Is it illegal? Yes, it is. And "theft" is the legal definition to describe the situation.

      The confusion people have is theft of service vs. theft of property. Let's say that instead of ripping off a copy of a CD, you go to supercuts, get a haircut, and run out without paying. Are you guilty of theft? Yes. Have you taken anything? No. Have you removed the hair-stylist's ability to cut hair? No. So you have not technically stolen anything tangiable. However, it is "theft of service," and that is a crime. Look at it that way and it is easier to see copyright infringement as theft.

      --

      -Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat

    2. Re:That damned 'theft' argument again! by jedidiah · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You're the one that has no clue. Laws regarding theft have ALWAYS been distinct from the laws regarding copyright infringement. HELL, until just a couple of years ago: NO AMOUNT OF PERSONAL PIRACY WOULD HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED A CRIMINAL ACT, PERIOD. There is no concept in laws regarding theft, or larcency, or robbery, or burlary that require a threshold of damage in order for the act to be criminal.

      They are two completely different beasts.

      It is you that has no "legal leg" to stand on.

      It is only the armchair busybodies (and Media Moguls) that equate copyright infringement to theft.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  9. DRM= Digital Reach for Money by mrkurt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Correct, they do want to prevent artists from reaching the people, except through them. And think of it this way: how many musicians, writers, and film makers' works haven't made it to the public, because of the enormous amount of control the studios have over the content that actually makes it out through the normal distribution channels? The 'net is not a channel for "content distribution"; its best and highest purpose is for finding one's voice. The musician, the writer, and perhaps the film maker have a chance to use the 'net to do this. If their stuff is good, people will be interested in purchasing it. I'd much rather obtain it directly from the artist than to go through the media giants. I wonder how much we as a culture are losing from the continued dominance of the mass media?

    --
    Always look on the briight side of life! (whistle, whistle)
  10. Yeah right by Ogerman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So now Hollywood thinks it can "win people over" to their side by evoking pity for them?! Pathetic.. truly pathetic. People will not stop boycotting / making unauthorized copies until Hollywood and the music industry learn some ethics themselves. Until then, Joe Public perceives that he is just stealing from a thief. Or phrased another way: Hollywood has no moral ground to stand on when they make these statements against so-called "piracy" by ordinary consumers.

    Some reasons to boycott Hollywood and Big Music:

    1.) They are solely responsible for the hideously unconstitutional DMCA, which tramples on some pretty basic rights--free speech and expression anyone?

    2.) They'd like to ruin all useful consumer electronics and computer technology with crap like SSSCA / CBDTPA, this time taking away basic rights of property ownership ("well, you can own it.. BUT we can legally say how you're allowed to use it")

    3.) They repeatedly screw over the true artists if there's a way to increase their profits. (Go look up your own examples.. there are plently out there.)

    4.) They are the single largest driving force in brainwashing youth with "alternative morals." And no, this has nothing to do with the mere existence of sex and violence in film. It's about the attitudes behind the way that sex and violence are portrayed. It's about the underlying message delivered. (Example: American Pie - "you're a loser if you're still a virgin at the end of high school")

    5.) They are an enormous tool of consumer whore-ism and shame-based marketing that promotes conformity. "You're no good unless you look this way / act this way / have these things / etc."

    6.) They have destroyed the original institution of limited copyright for the purpose of making gargantuan amounts of money with minimal efforts.

    7.) They seem to believe that they are "owed" enormous wealth because they are so special, as compared to most businesses which are subject to the Free Market and actually have to work hard to operate efficiently and turn a profit. Even bad movies tend to yield a profit margin unheard of in any other industry.

    8.) Unchecked positioning in the market and monopolistic tactics that rival Microsoft's have led to disgusting price gouging of theater tickets, pay TV, music albums, and movies. All at the expense of consumers.

    9.) They repeatedly have taken all available measures to maintain gatekeepers of all media, making it very difficult for independent artists and producers to succeed. ..And then they turn around and put out propaganda like this, saying "don't attack the gatekeepers! you'll hurt the poor working-class folks in the entertainment industry!!"

    I don't know about the rest of you folk, but this kinda stuff is plenty to make me avoid the theaters and wait for the $0.99 DVD rental (on the handful of movies even *worth* seeing) Vote with your dollars, people!!

  11. Re:Excellent point by MtViewGuy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    By keeping the price of DVD's reasonable (thanks to the fact they're following the sell-through model of video sales more or less pioneered by the Buena Vista Home Entertainment division of the Walt Disney Company), they've sent DVD sales literally through the roof.

    DVD's could have been quite expensive initially due to the high cost of mastering the movie onto DVD disc, but now that you can master a professional-quality DVD movie on a dual-CPU Power Macintosh machine, it's small wonder why costs are relatively low.

    I think the MPAA's Jack Valenti--unlike the RIAA folks--seems to a have clue about the economics of media piracy, and by pricing DVD movies at a low cost the economic incentive to do piracy is very low. If the RIAA understood the economics of media piracy they should price album-length audio CD's at US$11 per disc, which would cut down the incentive to pirate music quite dramatically.

  12. Orwellian Newspeak by alizard · · Score: 3, Interesting
    The CEO of Fox has redefined "work together" as "let Us inform you of the terms under which your industry will work under Our control".

    I've stated in earlier posts that despite the knowledge that the Hollywood content package basically means that all new electronic or software technology will require the approval of a bureaucracy controlled by Hollywood to make sure "proper" DRM is implemented, that technology companies would grab desperately at any hope that Hollywood is "being reasonable" and "willing to do business".

    This speech has one message. The CEO of Fox News is telling us that they bought, paid for, and 0wN Congress, and we will do what his cartel does or else.

    High technology of a sort that Hollywood disapproves of will happen whether or not USA high tech companies or individual software developers, engineers, h4xx0rs, or individual electronics experimenters get to play or not.

    If we want technological innovation to happen in the US instead of everywhere but the USA, somebody is going to have to organize to fight the Hollywood RIAA/MPAA cartel. Political Action Committees are the only way to do this. Neither the vendors nor anybody in the user community have stepped forward with the cash to get a mass action + lobbying organization capable of fighting this.

    I no longer expect any meaningful political action about this.

    Our alleged high-tech leadership is hypnotized by smoke and mirrors, believing the vague promises of the entertainment industry that if they build DRM-disabled technology, we will buy it.

    If anybody's going to fight this in time to affect the next election cycle, they have to start NOW. This isn't happening. High-tech industry doesn't have the will or the vision to fight. They are hypnotized by the kind of fantasies Hollywood is supposed to spin us for entertainment purposes, and making business decisions that affect us all based on them.

    Perhaps they'll understand they made a mistake when they discover that the new hot consumer gadgets are either being smuggled into the US or being built in dumbed down form for the US market by competitors working in high-tech friendly business environments and that they will either have to move their companies, close shop, or become distributors for foriegn products.