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Force Microsoft to Carry Java?

Posted by timothy on from the micromanagement dept.

tusixoh writes "In the case of Sun Microsystems anti-trust suit against Microsoft (who claims Sun just wants a free ride on their OS), U.S. District Judge J. Frederick Motz, who is hearing the case, has suggested that forcing them to include Sun's Java software in the Windows operating systems posed as an "attractive" solution. Microsoft had previously dropped Java when Windows XP was released, but reversed their decision and claimed they would start including Java in a Windows XP update until 2004. CNN has the article." Update: 12/04 04:57 GMT by T : Read below for a more complete summary of the Sun vs. Microsoft Java dispute.

torre writes "Well, there at it again. Sun has now begun its private litigation against Microsoft charging some pretty serious stuff. As we all know it has been widely reported that Sun looks to seek to force Microsoft bundle its java plug-in with their OS.

For a quick recap Sun sued Microsoft to stop shipping java since they had violated their licensing agreement. Sun won, got some money, and Microsoft got upto 7 years to continue shipping their outdated version. Microsoft recently decided that in XP they shouldn't ship their mangled version of java and Sun cried fowl demanding that they ship their plugin.

Now, what hasn't been reported in detail is the allegations that Sun has charged against Microsoft. In brief, they charge that
1) Microsoft has a monopoly in the OS, Web browser, and Office productivity markets
2) Is engaged in illegally tying

a. IE to windows
b. Their workgroup software to their OS
c. IIS to their workgroup server
d. .net to their OS's
e. Active directory to both OS and workgroup OS and to Exchange
f. Exchange server to Office
3) Entering into illegal exclusive deals
4) Unreasonably restrained trade
5) Infringement on copyright
6) Engaged in unfair competition

In their settlement they look for and I'll quote " Preliminary injunctions prior to trial requiring Microsoft to:

Distribute Sun's current, binary implementation of Java Plug-in as part of Windows XP and Internet Explorer.
Stop the unlicensed distribution of Microsoft's Virtual Machine Java through separate web downloads, instead of incorporating within Windows XP and Internet Explorer, in accordance with Jan. 23, 2001 settlement agreement.
The preliminary injunction hearing is scheduled for December 3 - 5, 2002 at the U.S. District Court for the District of Maryland in Baltimore, Maryland. Permanent injunction requiring Microsoft to:
Distribute Sun's current Java Plug-In
Stop unlicensed distribution of Sun's Java code
Disclose and license proprietary interfaces, protocols and formats.
Unbundle tied products like Internet Explorer, IIS, Active Directory, Exchange, Windows server and .NET framework"
All of this claiming that they've harmed java, the Java programming community and intimately Sun's shareholders. Now as the court battle begins its seems that sun has to prove that they are not looking unfair advantage. This seems to be a big issue as it would seem that they could achieve the same level of distribution by merely dropping four million with OEMs..."

10 of 83 comments (clear)

  1. Here's an idea.... by reaper20 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Don't allow them to distribute .NET and Java with Windows and let the market decide.

  2. I don't think this will be an issue if... by GreyWolf3000 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    ...developers continue using the Java platform. It is really a neat language, and the Java API makes it a great remote client environment.

    On the other hand, .NET builds upon the success of C and its derivatives, particularly C#, and allows developers to seamlessly integrate the Internet with their services. Truly a godsend.

    Here at work (a consulting firm), I co-admin about 30 NT boxes, and we're looking into both platforms for our new finance services, but right now .NET looks more appealing, as cross-platform support is more of a burden than a feature; we can afford to cut off a small minority in favor of delivering seamless, facilitated content to the bulk of our client base.

    --
    Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
  3. Really by Konster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is stupid.

    If Sun wants Java to be automatically included with Windows, then they should have to pay for it.

    Now, if Sun were to do something bold like making Java a free bit of kit with no charge whatsoever to anyone from here until the universe dies out, then perhaps the courts can persuade Microsoft to include it at no charge and we can go on being happy with things.

    But if Sun wants to turn this into a $monopoly$ play whinerant so that they can secure their share of the market on the back of their competitor, screw em.

    Java itself is good. Net is, well, MS.

    Halo product anyone? Java would be good at this.

    1. Re:Really by GreyWolf3000 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      The issue is that .NET will destroy Java.

      Developers will switch to .NET, since lusers won't have to download it, and installing Java is too much to ask, especially when competitors are offering something that works now.

      The controversy is that there are those who believe that Microsoft will use it's market share to kill off Java, and gain control over, and be the central conduit of, all interactive web-based activity. They tried to do this a few years ago with their "embrace and extend" campaign.

      You may agree or disagree that Microsoft shouldn't be allowed to do this, but if you care at all about either platforms, this is important.

      --
      Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
    2. Re:Really by Konster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I do agree that MS will use its marketshare to kill off Java.

      I do care about other platforms, Linux and MacOS whatever.

      I do not want to see Net vs Java like I've seen DirectX vs OpenGL.

      But, I don't want one ego company using lawyers as a tool for advancing their technology on the backs of a leader. I want that tech to carry its own weight, such as Java has done. But, I'm not blind to the fact that Sun will throw a Sabot into all of our gears 5 years from now when it is the standard.

      Perhaps they will, perhaps, they won't. Given Sun's rather sad propensity to not really give a hoot, I'd rather see Sun realeasing Java as a Halo Project for free to all and riding the waves of public acceptance and not paying dollars to the shore.

  4. Let me get this straight... by arb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sun didn't like Microsoft including their own version of the Java VM with their OS so Sun took MS to court to stop them doing so.

    Microsoft removed the JVM from their OS, as per Sun's demands.

    When a user goes to a web-site that uses Java, the user has to download a JVM.

    Now Sun is complaining that MS doesn't include a VM with their OS? Sun wants MS to distribute Sun's JVM with the OS? What about other vendors that produce JVMs?

    1. Re:Let me get this straight... by Zelet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem lies in that Microsoft supplied a "broken" JVM. Because of this Sun wanted MS to fix it to standard or to stop using it. MS stopped using Java completely. Now Sun wants MS to put a not broken JVM into Windows. Sun didn't change their mind, MS is just f*ing with the public and making it seem that way.

      --
      ...And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." - Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984)
    2. Re:Let me get this straight... by Arrgh · · Score: 3, Informative

      The MS JVM wasn't compliant. It didn't include RMI or JNI, rather it had MS-developed, Windows-specific, incompatible versions of same. They also added JavaDoc doclets that actually had an effect on compiled code, therefore producing class files that were incompatible with compliant JVMs and in contravention of the JLS.

      Sun's position was that under the terms of their agreement, MS should ship a compliant JVM (including RMI and JNI) or terminate the agreement.

  5. Re:On by elmegil · · Score: 4, Insightful

    'cos you know, Sun isn't doing ANY R&D, they're just suing Microsoft in hopes that the money gained will hide the fact that they're not innovating.

    --
    7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
  6. Re:Bad idea by Golthar · · Score: 3, Informative

    Sun sued Microsoft because they were adding extensions to the language that can make Java on Windows incompatible with other platforms.
    Portability goes out the window (pun not intended) when you have to program for java (knowing that 95% of the applets will run the crippled MS VM)

    Sure, speed was superior (especialy for drawing code).
    I think Microsoft should stop being a baby, they signed for the Java code and that they would make an compliant VM.
    They didnt do that, so they had to stop.

    Im sure Sun wouldnt mind if they continue working on Java, as long as they follow the Java standard.
    Let them include it, it makes my life easier :-)