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VRRP

Peter H. Schmidt writes "As the world increasingly relies upon the Internet and TCP/IP-based networks, their reliability and availability have become pressing topics for both enterprises and service providers. The Internet was designed for resiliency, not the 99.999% uptime of the PSTN, but it is now being required to do both jobs. This book on VRRP -- the Virtual Router Redundancy Protocol -- details the open, RFC-track protocol which has been developed to help ensure that edge router failures can be handled automatically without affecting connectivity." Peter's complete review (below) is interesting even if you never have to deal with the network at this level. VRRP Increasing Reliability and Failover with the Virtual Router Redundancy Protocol author Ayikudy Srikanth, Adnan Adam Onart pages 540 publisher Addison Wesley rating Recommended reviewer Peter H. Schmidt ISBN 0201715007 summary An in-depth review of VRRP that is loaded with helpful and informative details.

Protocols that allow for automatic failover to a backup router have been around for a while, but they are proprietary, including Digital's IP Standby Protocol (IPSTB) and Cisco's more well known Hot Standby Routing Protocol (HSRP). These protocols have been used successfully for years, but as with all proprietary protocols, they lock users into one vendor. Plus, the test of time has shown there are ways in which they can be improved upon. VRRP has been developed in response.

VRRP lets you set up groups of routers to cover for each other, with each group acting like one virtual router with it's own MAC and IP addresses. If the main router in a group should go down, the others will quickly (in under 3-4s, typically) notice and one of them will be elected to take over. VRRP makes it easy to set up multiple routers with multiple WAN connections and make sure that WAN connectivity won't be lost if a router goes down.

As the open alternative to HSRP, you can count on VRRP being widely supported by the router vendors. Even Cisco is shipping it now. If you design, build or install routed networks of any size, VRRP is something you probably need to learn about.

Read This Book!

Let me just say up front that I think this is a very good book, and worth the read. As the title says, it is all about how to increase the reliability and failover capability of your network. VRRP is its subject, but it is treated with a thoroughness and attention to context I have rarely seen in a protocol text. Perhaps that follows from the fact that reliability and availability are only of concern due to economics; few protocols are developed to meet a business need, so most books on them never need to get beyond defining where they fit in their protocol family. Despite the context material, I found it easy to jump to the low-level technical details, yet was somewhat surprised to find myself actively enjoying the extensive introductory material.

Srikanth and Onart have put a wealth of background into the book. The first chapter treats network availability from a theoretical perspective, but does it so clearly and enjoyably that I read it straight through and felt I had learned some valuable new concepts. It also gave me all the context necessary to easily follow their discussion of the need for, conceptual operation of, and benefits from VRRP in Chapter 2.

Part II, comprising Chapters 3-6, presents the protocol, discussing its messages, state machine and issues with different LAN technologies, firewalls, tunnels and VPNs. I found this a useful complement to the RFC. Here is where I found the details I always look for first when confronting a new protocol: how many messages are there, how many states, what kind of implementation trade offs are going to be necessary? I particularly appreciated the abundance of clear, annotated diagrams in this part of the book, though they aren't confined to these chapters alone.

The chapters of Part III concern themselves with managing VRRP, and what is noteworthy here are the numerous examples of how you can configure and manage realistic scenarios. Juniper and Nortel routers are used in the examples, and you are given step by step instructions on using SNMP, the CLIs and a GUI (HP Openview). If I had to set a customer up with a redundant router configuration tomorrow, I would grab these chapters first thing.

Part IV may be the most useful part of the book for the experienced network engineer. Chapter 10 presents an excellent discussion of the pros and cons of VRRP vs HSRP and IPSBP, and includes some nice summary tables. Chapter 11 discusses the future of VRRP, and answered many of the niggling "How would it handle this scenario?" questions which had popped up as I read how the current VRRP works.

The final section of the book is comprised of 200 pages of appendices. They start with a moderately brief but well done overview of TCP/IP and IP networks. That is followed by the complete VRRP MIB. Then we are given Linux source from http://w3.arobas.net/~jetienne/vrrpd/ and a nice commentary on it. Next is a thorough explanation of the SDL (Specification and Description Language) and flowcharts which were used to define the state machine in Part II. And if this isn't enough rigor for you, you'll be pleased that the following appendix using first-order predicate calculus to specify VRRP yet more clearly. (If you don't know what first-order predicate calculus is, just feel lucky and skip that part...) The final appendix covers UML, the Unified Modeling Language, which also is used in Part II to show how VRRP state transitions occur.

What's Not to Like?

There is very little to object to about this book. If it has a fault, it may be that it is a bit too comprehensive. VRRP is actually a fairly simple protocol, and I write that as someone who has designed and implemented protocol stacks for over 8 years. The level of rigor and detail put into VRRP in this book are worthy of something as hairy as OSPF or BGP4. I found myself getting lost in the notational details of their examples at times, they were so exactingly detailed, but I found that if I just looked at the diagram and skipped to the last paragraph, I'd get what I needed. This book would actually make a pretty good reference book on networking in general, there's so much here!

FAQs

What level of experience is needed to make good use of the information in the book?

This book has all the intro material a novice to networking could want, yet has it all so well organized that it is easy for the advanced reader to find the interesting details.

Who will find it most useful? Is there an existing, canonical book that already covers the same ground?

I think this book would be most useful for enterprise network designers, implementers and operations people, no matter what their current skill level. I couldn't find another book on VRRP, so it's good that the only game in town right now is a good book.

Is the book readable as well as technically accurate? Is the language stilted, or natural? Are examples easy to follow?

The book is very readable - unusually so. As for accuracy, I didn't notice anything amiss, and I used to QA stuff like this. Good use of language, and a ton of excellent examples.

Is the depth appropriate?

This book dives deep, but not without plenty of warning and acclimatization first for people not quite ready for the open ocean.

Are the illustrations appropriate and well executed?

Excellent, clear illustrations.

Do any extras come with the book, like a CD-ROM of additional information or code samples?

You get a full printout of the VRRP MIB, as well as commented source code.

What's missing from the book? Would it benefit from illustrations, a better index, a final chapter on practical applications?

Nothing significant.

You can purchase VRRP from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

85 comments

  1. IN SOVIET RUSSIA by IN+SOVIET+RUSSIA · · Score: 0, Insightful

    We review PRRV!

    1. Re:IN SOVIET RUSSIA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The joke explains you!

      PS: Yakov Smirnoff, Russian comedian, used to always joke that things in Soviet Russia were backwards in the style above. I have no idea when it started on /.

    2. Re:IN SOVIET RUSSIA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do know this is a very common joke on the forums at somethingawful.com. Common enough that people get banned for it. SA seems to popularize bad jokes.

  2. Patent issues? by paja · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is there any mighty /dotter, who can present royalty/patent status of IBM and Cisco claiming, that parts of VRRP are patented by these companies?

    1. Re:Patent issues? by pheared · · Score: 1

      I too am interested in any recent knowledge about this. IIRC Cisco went after Alcatel over their use of VRRP.

      It's a shame, because the protocol isn't that bad. (though, certain implementations and their tendency to conduct VRRP wars may be ;)

      The whole thing made me look for an alternative. I ended up investigating the Linux-HA project. They didn't really have support for failing over when the box became unreachable from the network (this is a desired behavior with certain shared storage apps and such) so I concocted a plugin called ipfail. All of that has since been included in the recent releases of heartbeat. It's sort of a second-best solution as I think VRRP is really the answer here, but hopefully others will be able to benefit from it.

    2. Re:Patent issues? by netwiz · · Score: 2

      Cisco owns RFC 2281 Hot-Standby Router Protocol (HSRP), a work-alike to VRRP. For all intents and purposes, they perform the exact same function, using extremely similar mechanisms. I don't think there are any real patent issues, since the state path each protocol uses is quite dissimilar, but due to the fact they both solve the exact same problem, the internals are somewhat alike (the hello interval/timer, the fail interval/timer, etc.) I don't know if Cisco's ever pushed the issue; perhaps someone could elaborate on that. Although I do know that HSRP has been around longer.

    3. Re:Patent issues? by NicolaiBSD · · Score: 1

      In this e-mail Robert Barr from Cisco answers to the main developer of keepalived that Cisco will not attack VRRP implementations unless a patent claim is asserted against Cisco. Unfortunately he also states that he expects that IBM's stance on this is the opposite of Cisco's.

  3. Wow! by stratjakt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This guy sure is excited about this book.

    I'm excited that Sominex is now available in paperback form.

    This is the type of stuff I read on a need-to-know basis.. Ie; I need to implement it, so I get the book. Until then, just knowing what VRRP stands for is enough for most.

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    1. Re:Wow! by The+Jonas · · Score: 1

      True, and, I would rather download it from the publisher for a much smaller fee (or, at least, several chapters worth for free to ensure any future $$$ is well spent) than to pay the $55.00 for the print version. (Or, worse, for it to have to be back-ordered when I really need it.)

    2. Re:Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I really can't believe someone managed to write a book on this. VRRP itself (as in the protocol) is dead simple, which is why it's absurd that cisco got a patent on it. its so simple that it basically the same concept as HSRP, which is why the cisco patent does apply to VRRP, so it's not open/free at all.

      where things do get a bit more complex, is in the decision processes that specific implementations feed into setting priorities in VRRP packets. if you say, this VRRP instance has priorty 200, but less 20 if interface X goes down, which makes for a imensely more useful VRRP implementation, you start infringing more patents. nortel have one in europe i think that covers adjusting priorties according to interface states, i think theres a more general one too that bases decision on the presence or lack of specific routes in the routing table.

      until these patents expire, vrrp is a closed protocol. but, it's soo simple anyway, that unless you are specifically concerned about interoperating with other boxes on the network, there is usually "another way" that's "just as good".

      the most interesting thing about vrrp is that it makes a very clear case of how patents can be abused to the disadvantage of non-corporations.

  4. Router problems by defile · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In my experience, downtime is caused more by router misconfigurations and not physical problems: peer router broadcasts bad information and takes down a network, admin discovers that the backup route wasn't configured properly at all, admin reboots a set of routers only to find that the TFTP server hosting the OS hasn't been running for 3 months, etc. :)

    The protocol seems like it will do nothing to address this. However, physical outages do tend to last longer than misconfiguration outages, so this protocol may help yet.

    1. Re:Router problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you need is Administrator redundancy. Ie; have someone who knows what he's doing check your work.

    2. Re:Router problems by mosch · · Score: 3, Informative
      I have significant experience with VRRP and can attest that it's a Good Thing(tm). I've used it on border routers, on load balancers and on SSL accelerators, and it's incredibly useful not just for preventing unplanned downtime, but it also makes it easy to fail to a second router, upgrade the primary router, then cut back to the primary router and upgrade the secondary router without ever having downtime.

      And honestly, if you're having significant problems due to router misconfiguration, you should really consider replacing your network staff. A few glitches are to be expected, but if they're causing more downtime than your hardware, perhaps they need to study up before they're allowed near your production kit.

    3. Re:Router problems by w1r3sp33d · · Score: 1

      Imagine this: two routers, each with a link to a remote site (ie T1 and a frame) each plugged into a different switch. If either router fails/reboots ect everything still works. If a switch dies the other router begins running as the def. gateway. If one wire gets cut or unplugged taking down a router the other routes. If one circuit goes down, data continues to flow. I have used HSRP extensively, it can save you from MANY physical failures and service outages when deployed properly. As far as having so many misconfigurations, get a new engineer. Cheers!

    4. Re:Router problems by Em+Emalb · · Score: 2

      In my experience, I have found exactly the opposite. I work in a telco, and the majority of our customers use frame-relay or isdn to connect. You are correct when you say that the majority of the issues are caused by humans, but it's usually at the telco network level. I rarely see misconfigured routers( Except at install, rarely will an install go as planned). Anyhow, weird to see this view, seems most of the people I know who do this for a living rarely ever tweak their routers once they are up and running.

      As far as your point on physical outages lasting longer...that's very true. If I can console in via modem or telnet, I can fix a misconfiguration.

      --
      Sent from your iPad.
    5. Re:Router problems by IKEA-Boy · · Score: 1

      In my experience, downtime is caused more by router misconfigurations and not physical problems

      What is your experience based on? I work in the NOC of a major telecom provider and I would say 80% of outages are related to physical circuit problems or router/card crashes. Configuration issues usually get noticed and solved during the implementation phase of a network.

    6. Re:Router problems by defile · · Score: 2

      What is your experience based on?

      Working with ISPs. Most of the time any outages are explained to us as a router misconfigurations or some weird event happening that caused some weird problem. At this level the ISP peers with a lot of other third party ISPs so there's naturally a smaller degree of coordination. I couldn't speak for large internal organizational networks.

      Who knows, maybe the ISPs have dozens of hardware failures that they recover from without missing a beat.

  5. Exactly how are routers going to run this ??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are these *Nix routers ?? Because any major edge provider router has its own OS(ie Cisco's IOS or Juniper's JunOS) So unless you had an edge device that was a *Nix router this wouldnt be very useful at all. Let alone providing multiple circuits for these Standby routers. That becomes really expensive. If you are an ISP of any size you may have 100's of POP's. Are you going to supply total redundancy for all of them ?? I think not. Its a good idea but not really all that practical for ISP or a network of any size

    Homer Simpson - "Trying is the first step towards failure."

    1. Re:Exactly how are routers going to run this ??? by frog51 · · Score: 2

      It isn't just a unix service! Many routers run this very simply - Cisco IOS has it in all current versions (not sure about Juniper) and it's a piece of cake to enable and configure

      I don't think any of my clients would ever think of not using it - sometimes for firewall resiliency, sometimes to help with web farm clustering, but for large scale enterprise organisations it is invaluable.

  6. Just gateway redundancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    This isn't going to help many people. It just enables gateway addresses to fail over.

    1. Re:Just gateway redundancy by IcephishCR · · Score: 0

      Actually, it is very helpful, this doesn't enable networks to have gateway address failover, it creates a virtual gateway address, so that all clients go through it, the two (or more!) routers that actually handle gateway traffic for the network are on other addresses, but the clients never see them, if one dies, you only loses connectivity over the link that router serves. Many (most?) business networks have only one router/gateway, if it goes down, they loses total connectivity even if they have redundent circuits or multiple providers via BGP or whatnot. This gives greater likelyhood of total up time, plus its allow for gateway router upgrades, patches, repairs, etc. with invisibility to network users. (Plus it lets guys like me get sleep at night, forget having to schedule router down time for Saturday morning at 2am so noone notices, now I can do it on tues at 11am!)

      --
      Life is but a Beta test...
    2. Re:Just gateway redundancy by Mothra+the+III · · Score: 1

      Its also great when upgrading the OS. The instant failover allows you to work on one device and reboot it without any downtime, and then make the same changes to the redundant device. Nice when you are hosting critical websites that will not allow for downtime.

      --
      Worst. Sig. Ever.
  7. Reliability of TCP by giel · · Score: 1

    Huh? It seems I must have missed something important...

    As far as I knew the TCP/IP architecture was designed to provide a very failsafe and reliable network which should be able to keep running if half of it would be blasted away by a nuclear attack.

    But it isn't? Damn... Hey, let's not tell it to the American government!

    --
    giel.y contains 2 shift/reduce conflicts
    1. Re:Reliability of TCP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      TCP isn't the whole story tho. Don't forget aobut those UDP nameserver lookups...

      We're dealing with the IP level here.

      The internet is supposed to be reasonably intelligent about routing traffic around broken hardware, but the hardware that performs this task is not designed to be redundant/resilliant.

      i.e. if your core router breaks, your core breaks.

      VRRP is all about getting two routers/firewalls to act as a single unit, intelligently failing over as required.

      I've been using VRRP for about 5 years now on Nokia IPSO and Linux boxes. I have to say it's a great solution. It really does mean that all your problems are config errors. Hardware failure is not an issue.

    2. Re:Reliability of TCP by Ron+Atkinson · · Score: 1
      Actually VRRP is not about two devices acting as a single unit (that's clustering), VRRP is hot-standby. The virtual IP gives an illusion of a single device, but the devices are independent of each other and really have nothing in common

      I've also setup many Nokia IPSO systems and always felt good they have been ahead of most people by natively supporting VRRP. Monitored circuit is also pretty much a requirement too. The problem with hot-standby systems though is that there is always one system sitting idle. At first it's fine, but after a few years you think "Why do I have two devices (router, firewall, etc.) and only one is ever active?". And no, running something like OSPF or a load balancer to rotate between multiple VRRP addresses just adds nothing but uncessary complexity to a design. Nokia is now starting to push their clustering in IPSO 3.6 as a replacement for VRRP. For those of us who have used Nokia IPSO systems, VRRP is certainly nothing new, but by the time the rest of the industry finally picks up on it the we'll probably have dropped it in favor of clustering.

      What amazes me most though is how people manage to write 560 page books on a topic that can be discussed in a few pages.

    3. Re:Reliability of TCP by dan_linder · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, the Internet is very reliable in the big picture, but things like BGP routes can take about 5 minutes to update. Just think how irritated we are when Slashdot is "off the map" for five minutes while the routers update their tables? That is reliability at work. What the VRRP tries to accomplis is to take that from 5 minutes to less than 5 SECONDS or sub-second.

      Side note: When your service providor says that they have "99.999%" uptime to the Internet, ask them if their up-stream providors ever have routing/router problems... Since "Five Nines" a year equates to "five minutes" of downtime per year, a single BGP route update is five minutes. In the real world, if an ISP is up >99.9% of the time (99.9% == 8.8 hours) using a simplistic monitoring (pinging their outside routers, pinging the firewall I am behind, etc) then I am happy.

    4. Re:Reliability of TCP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are several solutions. I work for a large auto maker and we have gone through this years ago. That is why we don't use HSRP or VRRP for our WAN routers. And yes, load balancing does work nicely, at least in Cisco networks. Oh, and it's VERY simple to setup. We use EIGRP with equal cost paths to balance routing on our Core 7513s. The other, very nice NEW option from Cisco is GLBP(Gateway Load Balancing Protocol) which is an implementation similar to HSRP or VRRP except, both routers can be active and routing at the same time. Advantage? When 1 router goes down the 2nd assumes it's IP address along with it's own to create a "Globally resilient IP Network"

    5. Re:Reliability of TCP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      huh? when is the last time you've dealt with SLAs?

      no isp is going to assume resposibility for an upstream provider's issue. That number only applies to the immediate isp. as long as the isp is not at fault for the outage, they have maintained the requirements set by the SLA...
      an upstream issue is not the isp's fault... they owe you nothing, but the upstream owes the isp as per their SLA.

    6. Re:Reliability of TCP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It depends how the SLA is written. If the ISP is granting SLAs they better have connections to multiple providers so that they can maintain there 5x9s promises.

    7. Re:Reliability of TCP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you don't actually have the slightest idea how bgp works do you?

  8. Hack/Terrorist attacks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Do any extras come with the book, like a CD-ROM of additional information or code samples? You get a full printout of the VRRP MIB, as well as commented source code. Uhhhh? So can someone see the hacking for these routers just coming right out since the source is wide open to the world. Should not the edge routers of the world be a little secret about what they are using?

  9. Re:Solution from a problem that doesn't exist by FreeLinux · · Score: 2

    Forget Dial-up. Think about the more critical commercial applications. Think something like Delta airlines resevation system or how about a hospitals record system or as the article alluded an enterprises phone system using IP telephony. These are situations where uptime is absolutely essential and in rare cases, a matter of life and death.

    VRRP is very commonly used in the enterprise and it easily and simply saves downtime on a regular basis. Basically, if your enterprise runs two or more layer 3 switches you'd be stupid not to use t. Now think about those networks that use thousands of layer three switches, networks with tens of thousands of routers, virtual or otherwise. In these environments a failure could affect a very large portion of the network. With VRRP, the risk is greatly reduced, though not eliminated.

  10. good review by haa...jesus+christ · · Score: 3, Funny

    what's up with all the good book reviews on slashdot lately? well-written, to the point, etc. - what gives? :)

    1. Re:good review by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      for starters, they're written and submitted by external parties.

  11. not really all that practical for ISP of any size by benjamindees · · Score: 2

    I just installed a network for a small business (100 employees) that has redundant firewalls and DSL connections to multiple ISP's. Next year, the one that has had the most outages/downtime will silently be dropped and a replacement found. Protocols like VRRP allow me to do this. You can damn well bet that if it's important enough for me to do, my ISP's had better follow suit, or risk losing my business.

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
  12. hmm by stratjakt · · Score: 3, Funny

    >> If it has a fault, it may be that it is a bit too comprehensive.

    This is awful!

    How can I look down my noses at the others in my office with the air of superiority that comes with understanding more of the geeky technicalities of our computer system than they do?

    If they keep writing technical books that people can understand, we'll all be relegated to memorizing the stats on Pokemon playing cards!

    Burn this book. It's a witch I tells ya.

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  13. You've a long wait for IP6 by Viol8 · · Score: 1

    With the amount of re-coding that will have to be done to applications on all OS's plus changes to the OS's themselves plus the fact that IP6 addresses are an absolute pig means that it will be a LONG time coming and IMO I'm not sure it will ever arrive in its current form. Personally having dabbled in setting it up on Linux & BSD and having written network code to support it I think its just TOO complex with far to much put into the low level protocol. IP should be about transfering packets , period , it shouldn't have security and all the other higher level stuff built in.

    1. Re:You've a long wait for IP6 by frog51 · · Score: 2

      Sorry to disagree, but the way the world is means that IP just can't be about transferring packets - as we can't do that unless we securely manage the connection - Confidentiality, Integrity, Authenticity, Non-Repudiation: all these are required by business, and no matter how much we all want the Internet to be free (in all senses) in reality, commercial business funds development.

      Anyway, IPv6 ain't that bad. You very quickly become able to memorise the portions of the address relevant to your connectivity and just ignore the rest (or more accurately, drop it:-))

    2. Re:You've a long wait for IP6 by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      Yes , a secure connection is nice to have , but it can all be done at a higher level just as well. It just puts an unnecessary overhead on routers and the low level drivers if its built into IP not to mention a far greater scope for bugs. If you follow that route why not just take it one layer further down and build encryption into ethernet or PPP frames ? At least that way it could be implemented in hardware and be far quicker. I get the feeling that when IP6 was designed they paid just as much attention to what they thought was "cool" as to what was actually required and the consequence is the bloated monstrosity that no network admin wants to touch with a 10 foot pole.

    3. Re:You've a long wait for IP6 by frog51 · · Score: 2

      Well, we can't do it all at a higher level. I mean, most folks think SSL with 128bit encryption is secure, but it takes 4 keypresses to hijack almost any SSL session. I agree that encryption at hardware level is ideal for connections that require a high level of security, and from my perspective, placing security fuctionality at as low a layer as possible is the best way forwards.

      You don't want to have to rely on an application for security when the underlying layers may have been subverted. In fact the best solution is to have security functionality at all levels - keep non-repudiation at a high layer and the rest at each layer lower down.

  14. Not Open enough for OpenBSD by ostiguy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Cisco maintains patent encumberances upon VRRP - if you use/sell VRRP, and get into a completely unrelated patent/licensing/whathaveyou war with Cisco, Cisco maintains the right to seek damages for your use of VRRP.

    I have come to see the merits of this position (dhartmei@ makes a good case, btw ;-) ) . The OpenBSD guys have been sitting on a VRRP package for *years* that they cannot include because this is not really an open standard.

    Why does Cisco do this? It may be that they are pissy because HSRP wasn't accepted as the standard. Or they might be looking for protection as they might be afraid other people could have patent claims against stuff that might underlie VRRP - and thus these encumberances could allow them to enact a legal war of attrition as each side has competiting patent claims that would ensure deadlock.

    ostiguy

    1. Re:Not Open enough for OpenBSD by tigga · · Score: 1
      Cisco maintains patent encumberances upon VRRP - if you use/sell VRRP, and get into a completely unrelated patent/licensing/whathaveyou war with Cisco, Cisco maintains the right to seek damages for your use of VRRP. I have come to see the merits of this position (dhartmei@ makes a good case, btw ;-) ) . The OpenBSD guys have been sitting on a VRRP package for *years* that they cannot include because this is not really an open standard.

      Cisco just said - if you have patents on VRRP - do not sue us and we will not sue you. Nothing more, nothing less.

      OpenBSD guys are just overreacted IMHO. FreeBSD and Linux guys do not care...

  15. No Open Source implementation because of Patent? by gehirntot · · Score: 3, Interesting
    From reading the web, it seems that no open source implementation is possible unless a license has been obtained from Cisco.

    I am not aware of any open source project that has ships VRRP. The IETF has received more information from Cisco about their Intellectual Possession in regards to VRRP.

  16. Publisher's site/sample chapter. by gatekeep · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Here's the publisher's page on this book. It even includes a sample chapter.

    Enjoy

  17. [ More Pages Like This ] by ekrout · · Score: 5, Informative
    --

    If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
  18. HSRP can be a pain in the ass. by Agent+Green · · Score: 2

    It's just as well that HSRP wasn't accepted as the standard. It uses a totally proprietary scheme which can be broken if the switch connecting all the routers in a standby group doesn't like it.

    For example, the Nortel Passport 8000 will clobber your HSRP group if in the unfortunate instance two HSRP routers send hello packets at the same time. As far as the switch goes, it sees a packet from the same source address in two different ports at the same time...then it shuts off the ports for a short bit, and when it all comes back, both routers think they're active because a two-way dialoge can't happen due to switch blocking. The only known remedy that I've heard of is to reset the switch and that disrupts everyone else's communications.

    I got the whole scoop on this problem dealing with a major east coast University this weekend. According to Nortel, this is not a bug, so VRRP is on the docket to be implemented.

    HSRP is great...but unless you're running an all-Cisco shop, it can be a pain in the ass. This is why a standards-based protocol was needed.

    --
    // Agent Green (Ian / IU7 / KB1JQO)
    // IEEE 802.3: All 10base Are Belong To Us
    1. Re:HSRP can be a pain in the ass. by netwiz · · Score: 2

      IMO, that's a Passport problem. What? Nortel? Yah, I remember them. Worst support in the industry. Didn't they buy Bay Networks? SNMP hell what?

      I don't know if you've looked at the packet formatting and design of HSRP versus VRRP, but they're pretty much the same. They both implement a multicast group to which both sides broadcast, sourcing from the configured interface IP, at regular intervals. They both use a half-duplex configuration mode a-la PPP's LCP negotiation, at which point they elect the virtual MAC and decide who's going to own it. After that, they make an ARP broadcast so that all the hosts on the segment know where their virtual gateway is. If the hellos ever fail to arrive in a timely fashion to the secondary (or tertiary or whatever, priority is configurable for both protocols), the secondary sends the same ARP broadcast to updated the L2 forwarding database and the hosts' ARP tables. Depending on how you set it up, when connectivity to the primary is restored, it either takes back ownership of the virtual gateway, or leaves it on the secondary.

      As for standards-based, HSRP is described in detail in RFC 2281.

    2. Re:HSRP can be a pain in the ass. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well actually it would be a Cisco problem. Since Cisco is dependent on spanning tree for about everything the port would be in a blocking state most likely until the group converged. With a Nortel solution you can use Split MLT which does not reply upon spanning tree... That means in almost every situation you have a switchover time of less than a second.

      Also Cisco is very vague on which standard to use. HSRP is used in half the product line while VRRP is used in the other half. It seems to me that if they actually adopted the open standard of VRRP, like everyone else, then this would solve the issue.. But Cisco be compliant on a standard.. Alas, POE, Ether Channel, EIGRP, HSRP, the list continues.

      Cisco uses the proprietary technology as a mechanism to sell more equipment.. Nothing more nothing less. But sheep still buy their gear and large networks crash everyday, and the trade rags say how great they are. Lol... The marketing machine continues.

  19. other vendors support VRRP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So are there any other vendors that support VRRP other than Cisco? If so, which ones, and which devices?

  20. Nokia by Mothra+the+III · · Score: 1

    Their firewall devices use VRRP

    --
    Worst. Sig. Ever.
  21. Sure, many do. by FreeLinux · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Nortel - Passport Series
    Lucent - Cajun Series
    HP - Pro Curve
    Foundry
    Alcatel
    IBM
    etc....

  22. VRRP OpenSource code by andi_nip · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I am very VERY surprise that nobody is talking about Keepalived (www.keepalived.org). This is the most advanced VRRPv2 code available in the OpenSource community. In addition it extend VRRPv2 rfc with a synchronization instances code that is very usefull for making persistent routing path. many extensions available.... Keepalived is wonderfull code after 2 years of debugging it is now STABLE and ready for production. the old code from jerome etienne is very draft and really not secure... look at Keepalived if you want to play with VRRP on linux.

  23. Implementations for Linux and FreeBSD by NicolaiBSD · · Score: 2, Informative
    The daemons exist, i'm not sure about their legal status however:

    For FreeBSD
    For Linux

  24. Wackamole by RCwyvern · · Score: 2, Informative

    Wackamole (www.wackamole.org) can be used to do this for routers running Linux, Solaris, or FreeBSD. Its open sourced, and freely available.

    --
    I am *not* an Atomic Playboy, but I *am* a cheese-eating surrender-monkey!
  25. Reliance on Secondary Routing Protos... by jcostom · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I work for Nokia, though don't speak on behalf of the company.

    One problem with VRRP v2 as it stands today. Imagine a case where you have two parallel routers and are running VRRP. If you experience an interface failure on your primary router. Ok, that interface fails over to the secondary unit. Since you only experienced an interface failure (let's suppose this is a pair of edge routers), say on the outside. Because the inside i/f of the router is still up, you need a secondary routing protocol to direct the traffic to the secondary router - introducing an asymmetric routing condition. This is easily done with OSPF.

    Consider the case, however, that we're no longer talking about routers, but instead firewalls. This condition can wreak havoc with your firewalls state tracking mechanism if your firewall's connection state tracking mechanism is either not shared with the redundant unit, or your connection is fast enough that reply packets arrive before connection data is sync'd.

    Enter extensions to VRRP like VRRP Monitored Circuits (aka VRRPmc), from Nokia. If you're running Nokia firewalls (which run Check Point for those who don't know), you're probably using VRRPmc.

    When you configure VRRPmc, you monitor the other interfaces in use for VRRP. If one of those other interfaces goes down, you decrement your VRRP priority value by a pre-defined delta value, which if you've calculated correctly, will cause the primary unit to begin advertising VRRP priorities that are lower than what the secondary unit is advertising, thereby causing the virtual ips/macs to shoot over to the secondary unit, rather than just the i/f that failed. On the wire, it still looks like good old VRRP. I'd like to see either the monitored circuits method, or something similar implemented in the mainstream VRRP protocol.

    --

    The unsig!
    1. Re:Reliance on Secondary Routing Protos... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      www.keepalived.org provide its own internal way to deal with monitored-circuit like... (called vrrp synchronized group)

    2. Re:Reliance on Secondary Routing Protos... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Easy solution:
      Firewall Load Balancing

      Alteon switches (in a sandwiched pair) maintain persistency across firewalls while load balancing and health checking all the way though clean and dirty sides to ensure redundancy.

    3. Re:Reliance on Secondary Routing Protos... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, spend $40k for something you'd otherwise get for free.. My favorite thing!

    4. Re:Reliance on Secondary Routing Protos... by ctar · · Score: 2

      When you configure VRRPmc, you monitor the other interfaces in use for VRRP. If one of those other interfaces goes down, you decrement your VRRP priority value by a pre-defined delta value, which if you've calculated correctly, will cause the primary unit to begin advertising VRRP priorities that are lower than what the secondary unit is advertising, thereby causing the virtual ips/macs to shoot over to the secondary unit, rather than just the i/f that failed. On the wire, it still looks like good old VRRP. I'd like to see either the monitored circuits method, or something similar implemented in the mainstream VRRP protocol.

      The Nortel solution uses something called 'critical interface' which is not necessarily an ethernet interface. You associate a 'critical interface' with the interface you are running VRRP on. When that 'critical interface' goes down, it causes VRRP to give up the master status on that device, thereby yielding to the other VRRP peer...

      I think this is what you mean.

  26. "locked" in to one vendor by Em+Emalb · · Score: 1

    Usually you get this because the vendors themselves are too busy trying to one up each other that they fail to work and play well together.

    For example...the mtu size for a cisco router by default is 1500. On a nortel box, it's something like 1600 or so (don't remember off the top of my head). Anyhow, this isn't a big deal, until you start getting lots of remote sites connected. Then, it becomes a huge issue.

    Anyhow, for my money, corporations should use one vendor for all their needs. That way, you know that the routers/switches, whathaveyou will work and play well with each other.

    --
    Sent from your iPad.
    1. Re:"locked" in to one vendor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That way, you know that the routers/switches, whathaveyou will work and play well with each other.

      That sounds nice, but in reality it's not so pleasant.

      What happens when the company eats another company? You have similar but different product lines for awhile, and they don't behave the same. Example: USR ate Megahertz. Then 3com ate USR. You'd see slight differences depending on the heritage.

      Sure, EVENTUALLY you get something that merges all of the good stuff in one place, but it takes awhile. In the meantime, you still have your historically separate divisions doing weird things.

      Another example: Just how much Synoptics vs. Wellfleet stuff is still out there? That's two layers deep - first it was rolled into Bay Networks, then it was eaten by Nortel.

    2. Re:"locked" in to one vendor by Em+Emalb · · Score: 1

      Man, do I ever miss welfleet's ANH's. Too bad Nortel products either suck or work beautifully. (Case in point for the sucks part of the equation:Passport 4400s.

      --
      Sent from your iPad.
  27. Nokia IPSO comes with VRRP standard by bastion_xx · · Score: 2

    I hadn't heard about the Cisco patents. Does that mean Nokia has paid money to Cisco (and set a precedent), or are they thumbing their noses at them?

    1. Re:Nokia IPSO comes with VRRP standard by ostiguy · · Score: 2

      No money is necessary. Its just that implementing it means that cisco has countersuit grounds against you on any issue under the sun if you use vrrp anywhere.

      ostiguy

  28. Re:early post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    She was a girl from Birmingham / She just had an abortion / She was a case of insanity / Her name was Pauline, she lived in a tree

  29. VRRP isn't the end-all-be-all by netwiz · · Score: 3, Informative

    I've run into countless failure scenarios where VRRP ends up being mostly useless. Scenario one where the gateway segment and server segements don't both fail simultaneously is one, where the primary stays up on the front end, but the server segment fails over.

    Also, there's the issue of the L2 packets being broadcast, so that when the switch you're connected to stops forwarding unicast (oh, but broadcast and multicast still work just fine, thank you very much), VRRP is pretty much useless. It'll never realize that something's gone horribly wrong, and that failing over is necessary.

    I guess my point is that most of the "automated failover" solutions out there either are or have been pretty much worthless given the failures I've seen, and that VRRP, for all it's good points, only covers about ten percent of failure situations. For straight up gateway reachability, it does just fine (in fact, it's a nearly complete rip of Cisco's HSRP, altho I'm not exactly sure of the timeline for each protocol), and in fact it's a superior solution in that regard, but for anything else other than L3 gateway services where all you're doing is plain-vanilla IP routing, it's pretty lousy.

    What I'd like to see is a unicast-based, fully-configurable hot-standby solution. Something where you're forced to enter the IP of the other partners in the redundancy group. Simply sticking to broadcast- or multicast-based solutions isn't going to cut it in a fully switched environment. Granted, the above is going to require a bit more configurationbut come on, it would add what, one, maybe two lines to each configured group? Hell, my environment has two hundred configured interfaces like this, and I'd put up w/ the extra work if it would have saved me from some of the failures I've had.

  30. WRONG!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hmm... Funny that HSRP uses the physical interfaces IP address to send hello's and not the HSRP configured address. Definately a Passport problem, not HSRP. If you're routers are using their HSRP address to speak ANY NETWORK WOULD HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THIS.

  31. Big Problem with VRRP That No One Ever Mentions by sabat · · Score: 2

    The biggest problem I've run into with VRRP -- no one here has mentioned it, and neither does the author of the book -- is that it insists on using MULTICAST MAC addresses for the virtual routers.

    Why's that so bad? Because Cisco routers refuse to accept Multicast MAC addresses as responses to their ARP requests.

    That means: VRRP no worky, if you're connecting to a Cisco box.

    If you happen to admin the Cisco routers, fine, you can change the settings, etc. But what if the next router upstream is run by your ISP? And what if the ISP won't make the change?

    There are better solutions; heartbeat (www.linux-ha.org) is usually sufficient for routers. Now if VRRPv3 comes out and they've made the multicast MAC thing optional, I will be happy to change my mind.

    --
    I, for one, welcome our new Antichrist overlord.
  32. What's So Hot About This Book ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To start off, I have NOT read this book. Even then I wonder what is so exciting about VRRP? The protocol itself is really 20 pages, and it's sister RFCs are not exactly long either.

    VRRP in short is just one thing. Failover of Virtual MACs, nothing else. The protocol is like five years old, and now there's a book on it? For crying out loud...some people need to start paying attention to network protocols.

    Now if the book talks about implementing active-active stateful failover of IPSec/SSL/TCP connections, then it would be an interesting read. But then again, that's not VRRP...

  33. great review; simple protocol by ctar · · Score: 2

    We use VRRP in access routers we deploy, and it is pretty smart. It is especially useful in the case of hardware, or specifically interface failure. If used with some sort of tracking, it is very useful, and faster and simpler than some routing protocols.

    While it is simple, the way it works can make troubleshooting complicated. Specifically, it 'breaks' the traditional way IP and Ethernet addresses relate to each other. By responding to ARP's for more than 1 IP address, and by receiving and routing traffic destined for more than 1 MAC address, it breaks certain assumptions you would make when troubleshooting a problem at the ethernet level.

    This could be very misleading behavior, if you didn't know to expect it...Not like a routing protocol where you can see the effect it has on routing information.

  34. Texan Killed Friend Who Drank Last Cold Beer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    BANDERA, Texas (Reuters) - A jury on Thursday handed a life prison sentence to a Texas man who shot and killed a longtime friend he accused of drinking the last beer in his refrigerator.

    Jurors deliberated for less than two hours before passing the sentence on Steven Brasher, 42, for the murder of Willie Lawson, 39, on Nov. 5 last year.

    "There was only two beers left, so I took one, and I told Willie not to take my last beer," Brasher said in a taped statement that was played during the trial.

    Testimony showed Brasher shot Lawson in the head with a pistol after the two began arguing over the missing beer. Brasher maintained the shooting was an accident.