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Largo Loving Linux
A little over a year ago, dot.kde.org and Newsforge did stories on the Linux-based systems being used in Largo, FL to run the city government. Roblimo went down there, drank their coffee, and wrote a follow-up piece which might be, but wasn't, entitled "How to be a sysadmin whose pager doesn't go off". (Newsforge is part of OSDN.)
Its worth noting that they are using NCD x-terminals. While buying used NCD equipment works well if you've already invested in their hardware, if you are setting up equipment from scratch, it is not an effective solution. NCD does not provide their drivers for download, and charges a fairly hefty amount of money for them, so if you want to set up x-terms at home, or at a small buisness, buy something else, unless you are already familiar with this.
Quite a few people seem to have picked these things up after the last article, not realizing how much of a pain it would be to get them running
I'm the network admin for a city govt in Texas and we're looking *really close* at migrating all our NT servers and as many clients as possible to Linux. Our IT dept budget is only one half of one percent of the city's total municipal budget anyway so we're accustomed to having to get by on a shoestring budget. We were never given funding to upgrade (sic) from NT4 to W2K on the server side anyway. The only thing that's kept us from being able to move all our filesharing to Linux+Samba has been the lack of adequate backup software that can work with our big tape jukebox and backup open files and handle all the required scheduling and notification(like Veritas Backup Exec is doing for us)... and lack of an antivirus package that can scan files on the fly as they pass in and out thru Samba (like NAI's Netshield has been doing for us).
"Don't forget, Harold isn't getting paid by anyone except Largo taxpayers, and his job is to keep their IT expenses as low as he can while providing ever-better IT services to the city employees who use them to do their jobs. In light of this, Harold's comparative cost figures are probably at least as trustworthy as anyone's -- and lots more trustworthy than some."
Its good to finally see a TCO that is about as unbiased as you can get. Other than this I've not yet to see a TCO (either proclaiming Linux or Windows) that isn't slanted in some way to paid for by a OS supplier.
Having said that, the 1.3% vs. 3% IT budget cost reduction is not all because of linux. All of that dirt cheap hardward adds up. I'm sure their bottom sure would still be significantly less than 3% even if they did use windows. Spending a couple dollars on a dumb terminal equals hugh hardware savings.
I'd say linux is just icing on the cake, (and probably leads to more silent beepers and a couple less admins). Still, remember that this is a total implementation comparision between municipalities, not purely Windows vs. Linux.
Why, o why must the sky fall when I've learned to fly?
and not some pimple-faced 19 year old MCSE who plays Unreal 2003 when he's not making fun of his 'luser' co-workers.
Actually most MCSEs that work for decent companies are degree-holding, unlike the 14 year old sandal-wearing Linux h4X0rs that think they know everything but don't. I think you have the wrong side of the joke, pal.
I'd recommend Cyrus IMAP with Postfix SMTP, run both in SSL (with SMTP AUTH) and point it all to an OpenLDAP backend. Put phpgroupware in for web-based access. In fact, everything you do should be using LDAP, preferably LDAP over SSL, since once you go LDAP you start seeing neat possibilities open up when it comes to offering single username & password everywhere..
If compatibility with Outlook is not an issue, this is the easiest and thriftiest way to get groupware functionality.
At this year's OSCON, everyone was saying that it is time for OS proponents to take a more active voice in government. I have heard, and believe, that local governments actually have a larger impact on our day-to-day lives than state and national government, so that is a good place to start.
I just forwarded the article to my local city government. It took only 1 minute.
Yes, it scales. They've takes advantage of some great, unanticipated opportunities that have come along, but I don't see how anyone can knock their basic premise.
Even paying full price for the terminals, as I'm sure they cautiously budgeted, it's still cost effective.
You have to know that they didn't cruise eBay, see the thin terminals, and then yell, "Hey, this will work!"
aka -- what happens when Harold get's hit by a bus? Is everything documented? Are all procedures pick-up-able by a fresh body in the position?
This could be a beautiful system or a multi-million dollar bill waiting to happen for the City -- it's not a Linux issue or a MS issue it's a systems issue in general. More than 50% of the cost of a truly functional system are spent in making it understandable, reliable and usable. How much time/money has Largo spent on this?
"Using the average wisdom of Slashdot is a perilous exercise. The average Slashdotter knows astoundingly little about Windows development, the Windows platform, or Windows administration, although they never fail to proclaim their mastery of the same."
I work in an all Windows IT environment so your statement does not apply to me.
"Firstly, countless studies have shown that in the TCO game it is a wash"
Actually that's not correct. Linux servers are really no harder to maintain than Microsoft servers in fact due to their stability they are less troublesome. So, even if the cost of administrating them is a wash we still have licensing issues. Microsoft charges a HUGE amount for that. So TCO of a Linux network is about half of the TCO of a Windows network.
For a shop that is switching to Linux there is an initial learning curve that would drive the cost of training up but this would also be true of a Linux shop that was going to switch to Windows.
As far as your proclamation that NT 4.0 servers are stable enough never to need a reboot I say BULLSHIT! Under the advice of Microsoft we reboot at least once a month.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
This conclusion you've drawn is so fundamentally flawed I can't even begin to fathom it. Linux trained administrators are often higher paid than their MCS* counterparts. RedHat training costs more and is more comprehensive than MCS*, and it also lasts longer, because it teaches you system fundamentals instead of a flow-chart driven O/S template for a specific version of windows. The total IT cost for Linux shops is lower because the software licenses are zero cost, not because they underpay the admins!
But of course, you know this. You have made a career on Slashdot of posting bullshit and insults. You are an abusive user bent on malice, and hopefully once the administrators are alerted, they will delete your account.
Kill Trolls Dead. Here's
Having formerly sold software to aid MCSE's to administer their networks, I'd have to say that your comment and my experience are contrary to one another. Friend.
Like what I said? You might like my music
First of all, if you don't allow your employees to d/l and install garbage software from the net, and don't give them access to tweak and mess with drivers, you usually don't have trouble with 'tech support headaches'.
A problem I keep running into, however, is that a lot of Windows apps are written expecting the user to have administrator priviledges. So it can be hard to limit people in this way without creating giant headaches for yourself.
Also, don't forget the time and hassle simply making sure you have the licenses to survive a BSA audit.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
"do you mind pointing out that whitepaper?"
This was from a support call. $250 per pop btw.
Your "experience" certainly does NOT trump my twenty years of experience. The fact that you appear to be clueless as to the costs of Microsoft licensees proves that.
We purchase unlimited client licenses for our SQL server. It costs us $10,000.00 PER PROCESSOR!! So for a four-processor server we're looking at 40 grand. And that's just for the SQL server!
I suggest that you finish college before trying to pass yourself off as an administrator.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!