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RealNetworks Releases Helix DNA Producer Source
Rob Lanphier writes "We just released the Helix DNA Producer, a multi-format media-encoding engine for creating streaming broadcasts, on-demand streaming content, and downloadable audio video files. It supports RealAudio, RealVideo and Ogg Vorbis, and includes many input and output filters, variable bitrate encoding support, option for two-pass encoding, audio gain control, Firewire support. Press release is here and a couple of stories are here(1) and here(2)." Here's a page that details the licenses under which the code can be obtained.
We better stop them fast before they steal any more of our freedom.
--sdem
They have a moral obligation to release their code under the BSD license, so that it is free for all to use and we don't get the jackbooted source code police busting down your door after trying to make an honest buck selling your own improvements to their source code. What a bunch of anti-innovation socialists.
--sdem
Real already knows my genenetic code they have so much junk watching me when I install Real software with default options. They've probably figured out a way to have my monitor probe my brain.
Paranoia? I don't think so...
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
One of my main problems with realplayer (and other real products) is the fact that it dumps all manner of ad- and spy-ware on my computer whenever i install it. Therefore, i wonder if the lisence includes stipulations about including advertising software despite the rest of the project being open source. Other than a scheme such as this one, I can't see how a company with a financial scheme like Real could get much benefit out of this arrangement. After all, I find it hard to imagine a large company such as this one just trying to do the Right Thing by the open source people.
"Hey brother Christian with your high and mighty errand / your actions speak so loud I can't hear a word you're saying"
Didn't you get the memo?
That was the entire point of their Helix Project.......
So if you could just put the new cover sheet on, that'd be great........And I'll see you get another copy of the memo.
Karma: Not Particularly Funny.
Is there any Free streaming media server that is robust and supports open codecs? I'd even be willing to make some compromises. Of the proprietary codecs, Real is the best. Is there any free way to stream it? Darwin Streaming Media is no good because it only supports proprietary codecs and the inferior ones (in installed base at least) at that.
Ceci n'est pas un post
...I grew tired of the constant barrage of Real Player updates long ago. It seems they only provide and use thier products as customer info gathering/profiling tools.
I avoid the use of any 'Real' audio components, both client and server related. There are always other choices.
I meant to link to this Infoworld story. Oh well, one day I'll learn how cut 'n paste works under X. ;)
The BSD license basically says that "Provided you acknowledge you've used our code, you can do *anything* you like with it". That includes including it in closed source apps.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Yes, but does anyone use real format anymore? I thought most indie music streamers used MP3.
Glad to see this software supports Ogg Vorbis though. I have half my music in Mp3 and the other half in Ogg.
They didn't mention BSD or GPL license though... hopefully it isn't some BS source license like the microsoft "shared source", that is useless to the OSS community..
So long as it doesn't have any spyware or adware in it, the source license is reasonable, and the quality is OK, this is probably a Good Thing(tm).
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
There is no source code released for the only interesting part of the system, which is the Real codecs. And the source that was released is under a crappy non-libre license. I guess it's an ok story for the developer section but putting it on the front page lens RealMedia Corp undeserved legitimacy.
What is Helix DNA? Is it a good thing or a bad thing?
On one hand, it's from Real -- the first major media company to release a player that (depending on a few bits in a file) won't let you save an internet multimedia stream, the precursor to modern DRM. Real also brought us RealONE, the most junk-infested media player ever, famous for spraying garbage all over your system without your consent.
Now they're releasing a player and its source with ogg support built in? If there's one thing we need in the media arena, it's an open file format and codecs to combat proprietary windows media, real, and quicktime. This sounds like it could be really cool.
But is it for Real?
OGG isn't GPL'd. It has a BSD license.
You're both right. Parts of Xiph.org's Ogg Vorbis reference software are under a BSD style license; parts are under the GPL. The libvorbis* packages and the Tremor decoder are BSD licensed, but libao and the vorbis-tools (executables such as oggenc, ogg123, etc) are under the GNU General Public License (or is it Lesser GPL now?).
Will I retire or break 10K?
Real already knows my genenetic code/i
So that's what they're using in the Helix DNA Producer!
Mmmm.. Donuts
If you look at the capabilities of Helix DNA, they would be much better provided by a set of small, specific command line programs, filters, network tools, and CGI programs. It would be much easier to reuse those tools for other purposes, to create new plug-ins, etc.
Instead, what we seem to be getting (but it's hard to tell because there is almost no documentation on the site), is some big, monolithic program with "plug-ins", which probably ends up being hard to extend, hard to modify, and hard to reuse.
People should really kick the cross-platform habit. The UNIX/Linux approach to building large software systems and servers out of small command line programs is better than the Windows approach. Having junk designed for Windows ported to Linux is not the right approach and fails to take advantage of the strenghts of the Linux platform.
They've been pretty heavy handed both trying to get people to use the pay version of realplayer, and trying to get it as prevalent on installed systems as possible. While personally I'm not thrilled at either, it's pretty easy to have some sympathy for their reasoning. I don't know if anyone here has tried to get people to give mozilla a shot, but one of the first complaints I always got was that it started up slower than IE. The quickstart was always one of the first things they wound up doing once they decided to switch. It often takes a lot of explaining before people grasped exactly why IE started so quickly. It's just not easy to compete with components built into the operating system. Don't use a quickstart and a significant amount of the potential audience will complain because it's slower to start than programs integrated into the operating system. Do use a quickstart, and another large user base will complain. The latter at least though for the most part would be able to figure out how to turn that behavior off, so I can sympathise with their decision. Seriously now, they're trying to compete with microsoft. That's not exactly an easy endevor!
What I find very odd is all the complaints about statistic reporting.
Real: We've listened to your complaints and removed the spyware for you, given you a lean player that additionally supports ogg and which allows you to create your own gui.
User: I'm not listening to you because you have spyware in your product, you don't support ogg and I hate your gui!
Everything will be taken away from you.
If Ogg was the defacto standard, more people than Real would be supporting it. Real's a good step towards further usage of Ogg.
- Helix DNA Client Documentation
- Helix DNA Producer Documentation
I really don't think it would be possible to put together a compelling end-user multimedia application with what you dub the "UNIX/Linux" approach (literally using small command line programs). Could you point to a successful end-user multimedia application that does?Oh, great. So now we get the RPSL, the RCSL (the latter available in three tasty flavors!), and more.... Couldn't we please just stick to GPL, LGPL, or BSD? Those three licenses cover most of the free software territory, and while I admit that reading them gives me just as much a headache as reading many other licenses, at least I only have to go through it once....
--Bruce Fields
WTF does your senator have to do with open codecs? That's like writing to your senator asking him/her to make everyone use Linux. Besides, the people who make the codecs are entitled to their work, and shouldn't have to release it if they don't want to. Patents are another issue, and possibly the most important one, but your post didn't mention that.
I don't know why I chose that subject line, but whatever. :)
I appreciate that you recognize we're rolling up our sleeve pretty far to show there's nothing up it. The "spyware" complaints have persisted for years after someone found one rogue chunk of code that sent us a lot of useless information that was going in the bit bucket (if you look at what was being collected, it really wasn't interesting).
Nevertheless, you're absolutely right: if you don't trust us, build your own player.
If you will recall, Microsoft lobbed the first volley in the "MIME war." Their media player took over some RealNetworks mime types. RealNetworks' response was to spearhead an initiative to encourage software makers to be more forthcoming to end users about which mime types they claim. In fact, these days just about every media player allows the user to configure this via the installer. This seems to be a benefit of their fight against Microsoft.
Furthermore, I think you're mistaken on your bullet points. But then, I would have a hard time convincing someone that has already made up his mind and has no facts to defend his standpoint.
In the meantime, please feel free to enjoy Microsoft's illegal monopoly and encourage them to trample any and all of their competitors. Real is by no means perfect, but regardless of how you perceive their past conduct they are obviously trying to be better community members. And at least they aren't Microsoft.
--Nick
I really don't understand why a large number of the comments here are negative. Simply stated, Real has released a significant piece of software under what appears to be a free/open source license (The RPSL has been submitted to the OSI for certification). The open source community is certainly no worse off and probably significantly better off because of this.
So the Real codecs aren't open sourced. Well, neither is DivX nor Quicktime, but that doesn't stop DivXNetworks or Apple from being darlings of the geek community. It's true that Real clients have been extremely intrusive, but their current actions should be judged independently.
In fact, the open source community has a vested interest in the success of Real's Helix since that would demonstrate that open sourcing can be a successful *business* strategy. Open source commercial successes are few and far between, so it doesn't make sense to beat up on Real just as they are starting to do something right!
Imposing Libertarian views on everyone online since 1992.
Helix is mostly open source. That's a good thing.
Some of it is not. That's unfortunate.
Real has been an annoying company, what with spyware and such. That's unfortunate.
Real is realeasing code you can either play with, or ignore. That's a good thing.
If Real gets a benefit from giving away code in terms of PR, browney points or Slashdot Karma, what's the problem, again? That would be the case because some people, somewhere, appreciated what Real did.
Of course there's a strategy behind doing so, and I suspect it isn't quick what RMS would prefer. If that weren't the case, we'd be chatting about this on Fucked Company instead of here.(Which is not to assert GPLed software can't support a company - if that were the case, I'd have a little problem.)
-j
I forget what 8 was for.
Are developers expected to preserve some kind of rivalry between open code from real and open code from apple?
What would happen if they got mixed together and were "given back" to real/helix? this is confusing, at least the last time I tried to get through the maze of documents on the helix page.
Sorry, try again.
Darwin Streaming Server can serve many file types, and many non-propritary formats. These include
MPEG-1
MPEG-4
MP3
QuickTime movies with non-propritary codecs like H.261 and H.263
QuickTIme has a packet structure for streaming, fully documented, and anyone and their dog can build a codec that can hint to a QuickTime streaming package. Heck, Darwin Streaming Server can even stream formats QuickTime can't play back, like MPEG-4 Advanced Simple.
My video compression blog
MPEG4 is a proprietary format with patent and royalty encumbrance that make it in no way superior to Real for freedom. Real offers a good balance between availability on esoteric hardware and operating systems (like Irix) and quality that none of the proprietary codecs you listed offer. Streaming MPEG1 would be ridiculous, come on. And H.261/.263 are not high enough quality. Ideally, I would use a completely open codec if source were available, and then deal with the inconvenience of requiring users to install it, but if I'm choosing between non-ideal solutions, Real is simply the best choice I can see.
Ceci n'est pas un post
Patent fees don't mean propritary. MPEG-4, as an ISO standard, is licensed under RAND - Reasonable and Non-Discriminiatory terms. This means no-one gets a sweetheart deal on using it. And it is fully published, with reference software to boot.
So, while it isn't free as in beer, it is for the most part free as in speech.
I'm hoping one of the first Helix Producer projects is to hook the Producer preprocessing engine into the MPEG4IP encoding tools (Xvid, plus AAC-LC, plus a muxer) into a good, open source MPEG-4 authoring tool.
My video compression blog
RealNetworks may be one of the most controversial companies in the Internet. Since its advent, this company made lots of right and wrong moves. So it is quite possible that it has as many fans as flaming opponents. However, they were pioneers in their field, and had had an enemy in the face of Microsoft, which played the same dirty game with them as with Netscape. These conditions were enough to have them sweet to survive. So their story is not so simple to judge.
Frankly, we should take into attention that this company appeared very, very early. By the time they came up, they produced players for Solaris and Windows was still a conundrom among Internet nodes. and their distribution policies were in fact progressive. While many commercial *NIX producers sold their products, they were giving players for free, the same way as Netscape was distributing its navigators. However, when the market changed, they made two huge errors. First a large part of their policies was kept, no matter the new market conditions. This deeply reflected in the dynamics of development of their products, as, lots of their characteristics became simply archaic. Second they choose the worst way of marketing. As pioneers, they choosed some of the early and unproved advertisment technologies for Internet. And this brought them the fame of an isolated company that loves to spam and spy over everyone.
No matter these problems, the ideology of their products is still something that is badly explored. The architecture of these systems is not strictly centralised and it has "loose" infrastructure that allows them to be used under several conditions. Still there is a huge potential in this field.
Are you sure this is a great idea to post such news to Slashdot which is the lovely platform of 1000s of clueless calling your product "spyware"?
;-)
As a end user using Realplayer on all platforms I use, I already got fed up, I really wonder how people actually coding software, providing free of charge to *nix community feels?
ps: to read this comment you should browse at -1, just a feeling
my question is:
.ra & .ram lying around on my HD into, say, .ogg, or .mp3? :-).. I Tried with ffmpeg without any success so far.. Seems there are a few Whine-dose solutions, but i'm looking for a scriptable Unix one.. :-/
Will this allow me to transform the
i had a sig, once..
Unadulterated bollocks. I can edit, convert, re-encode and generally mess about with my MPEG4 clips all I want. I have to pull teeth to extract content from proprietary Real files, which use patented technology to boot.
There are open-source implementations of MPEG4 such as Xvid. With an open-source codec which can create standards-compliant streams, you have the portability required or at least the potential to be covered against the death of the company holding the keys to your media, and more importantly you have immediate control of said media - the ability to convert it to other formats, for instance.
- Chris
Real already knows my genenetic code they have so much junk watching me when I install Real software with default options. They've probably figured out a way to have my monitor probe my brain.
Paranoia? I don't think so...
I know that was supposed to come across as funny, but it also - I think intentionally - misses the point. This is a source distribution, it will not have spyware. If it did, you'd just remove it, wouldn't you? Or move on to another project, so it's a safe bet Realnetworks won't do that.
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
Shout MP3 around people and they will most probably think Winamp
-dk
I'm glad that Real is releasing server tools, but what about spending some time getting the Unix client tools working worth a damn.
Specifically, getting the RealOne player for Linux to not say "You don't have permission to update" whenever you try to play a file with a new codec, getting a Mozilla plug-in for RealOne so that you can use its Flash player (having a Flash player is useless without having a plugin), and making the RealOne main page have a link for the *nix community, rather than being Windows only.
In order to contact Real about these matters, first you have to find the discussion forums for the "Community Supported Player for *nix" - these seems to be hidden in a disused lavatory in the basement behind a sign saying "Beware of the Leopard" - I defy you to give me a series of links from www.real.com that gets to the forum (that does not involve a search engine).
Then, you have to post a message - one forum is down, and the others don't seem to be visited by anybody from Real.
Then, on those blessed times when a Real employee deigns to visit the forum, the ususal posting is something like "download foo at this URL". However, no mention is made of when foo was updated - usually about a year ago.
Then, should you download the player, and install it, and get the new codec packages they say will fix the problem, you find out the problem still persists.
Add to this the fact that the client gets screwed up if you are not running a 75dpi display (with a larger DPI setting the fonts are WAY too big for the space allocated for the text), and the fact that it doesn't play any new files, and the fact that the Flash player only plays local files, and the fact that the Flash player doesn't play the sound....
It seems to me that Real is simply trying to keep the server market from abandoning them for Microsoft or Icecast - hence the support for *nix in the server arena. For the clients - "If you ain't Windows, you ain't shit!" (corollary left as an exercise to the reader).
www.eFax.com are spammers
a program stealing info from another program (like IE's current_url=) and send to servers without your grant.
Does real fit it? Your browser sends info too, it also sends http_referer (if not blocked on ns or opera) too.
Or screen resolution, with a single jscript query you can read guys resolution.
IMHO that Real spyware issues are coming from paid guys AND the innocent ones tricked by them.