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Keyboarding Love Or Keyboarding Pain

flyingember writes "Over on Ars, they've done the ultimate review for anyone who sits at a computer more than someone on AOL does, the IMAK Smart Gloves. These gloves are supposed to both prevent and help ease pain associated with conditions such as carpal tunnel syndrome. Read it to see if our code monkey enjoys the gloves or if they're just something for him to throw at the gawking crowd."

22 of 276 comments (clear)

  1. Can it get any nerdier? by ekrout · · Score: 5, Funny

    Glasses? Check.
    Dorky parted hair? Check.
    High-pitched, nasally voice? Check.
    Skinny fragile body? Check.
    Computer gloves? Check.

    Sigh.

    So much for useful innovation...

    --

    If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
  2. This worked for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I had a moderate case of tendonitis from keyboarding and mousing about 2 years ago, and this thing does work.

    I like the fact that you can still bend your wrist as much as you want, but you are gently reminded that you are bending, so you eventually stop doing it. It's not constricting like those braces.

    1. Re:This worked for me by Sad+Loser · · Score: 4, Informative

      tendonitis is real, CTS is real, most doctors would say that RSI patients tend to be nutters.
      (IMHO, IAAD)
      rest and splinting are standared treatments for tendonitis and CTS. Use whatever works but CTS has a genetic component, and other diseases may also predispose you to it. CTS is not really classified as an 'overuse injury'in that overuse is not proven to cause it, although overuse may exacerbate the symptoms, if you appreciate the difference

      tendonitis is an overuse injury, and splinting, drugs like ibuprofen and steroid injections are all useful.

      --
      Humorous signatures are over-rated.
  3. dvorak by YahoKa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    switching to dvorak would probably help more than theses gloves...

    1. Re:dvorak by CanadaDave · · Score: 4, Funny

      I never liked John Dvorak's stupid newspaper articles.

    2. Re:dvorak by Graspee_Leemoor · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, I do roll out this story of mine every time, but here we go again.

      I switched to Dvorak layout AND touch typing from being a very fast (70wpm) 6-finger-looking-at-the-keyboard-qwerty guy.

      Not only that, but I switched right in the middle of a big VB project I was working on.

      For the first week it was amusing. I would have typed out half of a word and I'd be staring at the screen going "L- now where is it? erm erm erm- ah! Now, S.... erm..."

      I know that it would have better to do some sort of typing exercises or something to make the switch but I didn't want to be typing everything else in qwerty and getting myself confused.

      The results, after a couple of months were astonding: my RSI-like symptoms were gone and only come back slightly when I am forced to use a non-split keyboard. (Note that I can actually type faster these days on a non-split keyboard but it sure as hell isn't good for me).

      I am now up to about 70 wpm again which is only the same as before, I admit, but typing is a lot more comfortable and of course I don't have to look at the keyboard as I type, which increased my score in Typing of the Dead no end. (By the way, I totally recommend this game to people who want to practice Dvorak).

      I was amazed at myself in the end- not for the fact that I had got rid of my RSI-like symptoms, but because I had managed to achieve the same typing speed after only about 5 months that I had had with my old technique, which had been built up over about 20 years.

      graspee

  4. dirty mind by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 5, Funny

    I admit it. I'm a big perv. But when I read "keyboarding love," I thought it was a new euphemism for cybersex.

    Man, that is flagrant false advertising.

    --

    I write in my journal
    1. Re:dirty mind by motardo · · Score: 4, Funny

      is that why your keys are sticky?

    2. Re:dirty mind by l810c · · Score: 5, Funny
      I admit it. I'm a big perv. But when I read "keyboarding love," I thought it was a new euphemism for cybersex

      It does hide the hair on your palm.

  5. Couple this with Dvorak... by MattRog · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Also try switching to Dvorak.

    You probably won't be any faster, but your fingers *will* travel less. I know I used to have pain in my hands after long coding sessions at work on Querty - after switching to Dvorak I can say I have regained my previous speed (after three months or so) and long coding sessions no longer produce painful fingers!

    Of course, you should see your doctor immediately upon RSI-type pain.

    --

    Thanks,
    --
    Matt
    1. Re:Couple this with Dvorak... by CanadaDave · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Is it tough to go back to Qwerty, once you've mastered Dvorak? I mean, if I go a friend's computer (without Dvorak setting turned on) and start typing, am I going to be able to remember the Qwerty style?

    2. Re:Couple this with Dvorak... by MattRog · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It depends on how often you switch back and forth. If I go a long time (a month) I sit there like an idiot in front of the keyboard hunting and pecking for a while until I can remember.

      If you regularly use QUERTY there should be no problem, really. Of course, if your friend uses Windows 2000/XP it is incredibly easy to temporarily change to Dvorak and back. That's what I end up doing if I need to use another computer for any length of time.

      The problem comes into play when playing some games - most Quake derivatives (Half-Life, Medal of Honor: Allied Assault, etc.) use hard-coded Querty key layouts, so your keys revert back to Querty. Just something to keep in mind.

      --

      Thanks,
      --
      Matt
    3. Re:Couple this with Dvorak... by Steve+X · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Early on in my second year at college,my hands had been tingling from too many late nights, days, and afternoons coding and chatting. I started to get freaked out (I mean, really, where's a coder if his hands are dead?). So I switched to Dvorak.

      Dovrak is wonderful - much less finger travel and a better balance of the hands (try typing english words with just your left hand vs. just your right hand in qwerty and you'll see what i mean). But Dvorak alone won't help you.

      The most important thing I found about switching from Qwerty to Dvorak is that I actually learned to touch type properly. Not having an actual Dvorak keyboard to look at the keys, I simply stopped looking as I typed and started relearning how to touch type. Mind you, I could touch type in Qwerty, but not fingers-on-homerow, actually-using-your-pinkeys typing.

      It was the proper relearning that I think really made my hands stop hurting. My fingers move substantially less than my poor Qwerty skills and as such, less strain from long finger reaches.

      Many people I encounter say, "oh, i'd learn Dvorak but then i could never use anyone else's computer" or "it'd take too long to learn" Yeah, it's true: it does take dedication. One can't just sit down in front of a Dvorak keyboard, not knowing it, and not get frustrated trying to type in real-time conversations.

      I found the best way to learn was to type class notes. That way, not only was I only limited by my own speed (not the speed of the conversation), but it provided good incentive to type faster (more notes).

      As for switching between the two: this is also a challenge, but well-worth overcoming. I kept getting confused at first which key was what in which mapping, but over time, I eventually got used to them as seperate layouts and my brain formed a nice distinction between the two. I can still type about as fast in Qwerty as I could before (though, honestly, i havn't tried recently), and I can type as fast, if not faster, in Dvorak.

    4. Re:Couple this with Dvorak... by MattRog · · Score: 5, Informative

      Correct, most "Dvorak is faster than Qwerty" claims are not based on fact. Theoretically, though, your fingers travel less so perhaps you can type faster. I haven't coded Qwerty in a long time so I do not know what speeds are, but I am confident I am no slower.

      Most RSI help claims are, of course, anecdotal, but from what I have seen virtually everyone who has switched has seen vast improvements in comfort - that I can't ignore.

      A short list of pros and cons are here:
      http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak/procon.html

      Note that no claims of speed superiority are made - most speed claims are made by uninformed converts and not by evangelists.

      --

      Thanks,
      --
      Matt
    5. Re:Couple this with Dvorak... by Sludge · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's alright, sometimes I forgek ,jgij mdkjsh Gqm ktrglu gl alh G ysoudk ks pssv ak kjd mslgkso yso a ,jgpde

  6. The REAL solution to carpal tunnel syndrome... by OverRated · · Score: 4, Funny

    Obligatory UserFriendly comic.

  7. this might seem off-the-wall... by nido · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...but if your computer is causing you pain, I speak the truth:

    1. check your insulin levels (no, it's not about diabetes)
    2. learn how to relax (body asleep/mind awake)
    3. get some exercise
    It's taken me three years to put this puzzle together, and that first point is probably the most important (I learned it last week, and cutting out the carbohydrates has already started to make a difference). email me if you need more guidance, i'll be happy to dish out some knowledge..

    links:
    on the subject of insulin - invert the frickin food pyramid
    why relaxin' is important - and some suggestions for getting started
    the exercise one - well, that one's kinda obvious, but is worthless without the other two.

    --
    Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
    www.teslabox.com
  8. Good posture helped me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My ex-boss (who had CTS surgery) noticed I was having serious pain one day and suggested I change my posture. This involved several things:

    1) Elevating my arms above my keyboard
    Having my arms below my keyboard resulted in my wrists resting on the desk or keyboard and puting more pressure on the tendan (sp?). This can simply be done by raising your chair or lowering your keyboard.

    2) Elevating my monitor above my keyboard. Having both the monitor and they keyboard on the same level resulted in my head being pointed down and my arms raised up. In general this is bad.

    3) Having my legs at a 90 degree angle. That is your chair should be at the correct height so that your legs come straight down at a 90 degree angle.

    4) Not slouching back. This is soooooo bad for your back. If you have a chair that allows you to lean back, make sure to stick it up right and in place. Slouching will result in lower back pain..

    In general sitting at a computer all day writing code is bad for your health. Poor circulation and repetitive motion is not good. Take some time to make sure your workstation is setup ergonomically and it will improve whatever work related pain is ailing you. In aidditon splits do help, at least they helped me. I have to say though, just setting my workstation up right did more help than any doctor or splint.

  9. Watch out for medical advice... like THIS advice: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
    Two things:

    1. Over in Ars Technica's forum someone named Figa made an excellent point:

    Ars Technica shouldn't be recommending medical devices to its readership, even if they're over-the-counter. I hate to think how many people will go out and buy the things instead of seeking medical advice, hoping that their pain will go away.

    My doctor warned me to avoid splints specifically because they can weaken your wrists, especially if they're worn 24-7 as the author recommends. Think about what happens to muscles when you wear a cast. They atrophy!

    There was a lot of lousy advice in the forum as well, which I can attest to firsthand...

    Figa (quoted above) then proceeded to explain why other people's advice was bad and then gave a 15 point treatment plan :)

    That said, if you're going to self-medicate with gadgetry, my vote would be to check out Kinesis's Contoured Keyboards

    The keys are arranged in lines in pits in the shell of the key board. Your fingers naturally droop into the pits and then move forward and backward (rarely to the sides) to depress the appropriate key.

    Claimed to make the activity of typing simulate CTS reducing exercises. I have a co-worker who has one and loves it.

  10. My solution by Schemer · · Score: 5, Informative

    My solution to wrist pain has been to use a break reminder program like xwrits to remind me to take a 5 minute break for every hour of computer use. I would use those five minutes to get out of my chair and walk around for a while, so not only was I resting my hands, but my whole body as well.

    It's also a good idea to look out the window at something distant while taking your breaks, you can avoid eye strain by not focusing on something 18 inches from your head all the time.

    JWZ has some good advice about this stuff on his site which I found very useful.

    --
    A buddhist walks up to a hot dog stand and says ``Make me one with everything.''
  11. dvorak with wine and ease of switching by Erpo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The problem comes into play when playing some games - most Quake derivatives (Half-Life, Medal of Honor: Allied Assault, etc.) use hard-coded Querty key layouts, so your keys revert back to Querty. Just something to keep in mind.

    This is why I switched to linux/wine for quake and quake derivatives (mostly Half-Life for me). Well, that and that I like to be able to individually tweak per-game opengl settings like FSAA in startup scripts. Anyway, keypresses in X are always translated before they get to the program, so I don't have to worry about using qwerty on my own machine.

    It's not all that hard to switch back and forth, but there's a huge amount of inconsistency in windows. Most 3D games come with their keybindings preset for the popular WADS layout (w for forward, a for strafe left, d for strafe right, s for back, e for use, r for reload, etc...). Nicer, more modern games like Hitman II (the demo at least) automatically set themselves for your keyboard layout. I was incredibly pleased when I installed the game, got ready to reconfigure the key bindings, entered the menu, and found that the game had replaced WADS with ,AEO automatically. Some games like Jedi Knight go the opposite route, and read QWERTY in the menu and during gameplay. Not as good, but at least I can press a key during configuration and have the same key perform that function during gameplay.

    Wine fixes all of those problems, but what I really appreciate is what it does for Half-Life. In windows 2000 with the keyboard mapping set for dvorak, Half-Life reads dvorak in the menus and qwerty during gameplay. ARG! That means than I have to configure the game by entering a qwerty layout using a dvorak keyboard, and then play as if my keyboard weren't remapped. I tried HL under wine, saw that games worked like they should, and never went back.

    ----------

    As for the parent post's question about how easy it is to switch, I didn't get really comfortable with dvorak until I had been using it for about two months. Now that I'm comfortable with it, I find that I type significantly faster than I did with qwerty; I'm probably about 10-20% faster, but I've never done a benchmark or anything (before or after). The most significant benefit, I think, is that I got to re-learn how to type and get rid of some bad habbits I could never shake. Before I switched, I would hit shift with the same hand I used to type the capital letter; now I hit shift with one hand and hit the letter key with the other.

    As for how hard it is to switch back and forth between qwerty and dvorak, I have some direct experience with that. I use dvorak on my home computer and on a friend's computer (he switched about the same time I did), but I'm forced to use qwerty on the computers at my college. I spend much more time typing at home than I do at school, so using qwerty is fairly awkward for the first few minutes. After that I probably type at about 80-90% the speed I did before (again, that's just a guess).

  12. Not really. by Chris+Burke · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Switching to dvorak is an improvement over qwerty, but it's a very minor improvement compared to using correct typing posture. You'll get RSI typing in dvorak just the same as qwerty if you have your wrists bent while typing, though it might take longer. I type dvorak and have for a good four years, but I still see a pair of these gloves in my future.

    --

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