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When Theaters Make Ticket Mistakes?
justzisguy asks: "During the third week in November I purchased 'Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers' tickets for the opening show at a local theatre. The kiosk I was using said 18 Dec. 12:00 AM as the time of the showing. I decided to purchase four, which came out to be a very reasonable $5.50 (US) each. I found out today that my tickets are actually for the noon showing (12:00 PM) even though the tickets are printed as a midnight showing, caused by a glitch in the computers. I have a final that conflicts with me seeing it at noon, so it is essentially midnight or nothing. I went to discuss the matter with management and they referred me to their 'no refunds or exchanges' policy and showed me a sign which has now been posted on the kiosk that explains that 12:00 PM tickets are really for 12:00 AM. I really don't want to purchase four new tickets at an additional $3.25 each. So here's my question: What is the theatre's obligation to honor these tickets?" While I'm sure the submittor would appreciate suggestions on how he can get the theater in question to live up to its obligations, there is a larger issue at stake here you should think about. What should one do when they find themselves in this situation with other commercial entities?
But instead of editorializing my opinions, on this matter in-article, I'm placing them here, instead...
When a commercial entity makes a mistake, I believe that it falls on them to correct it via the most simple and expedient method available. A "No refunds or exchanges" policy shouldn't affect this simple rule since it was the commercial entity itself that made the mistake.
However, in reality things are much different, and hence, consumers are put at risk every time money changes hands. Why should such policies be legal even though it wasn't the consumers fault. Shouldn't the entity accepting the money have some form of obligation to the person paying them to get the service they intended?
Now, I can see the problems with changing shows like this (the show in question is T-16h:12m and counting, as I type this), but there are bound to be other folks who are in the same boat, and I feel that the theater should at least make a token effort to see how many people got screwed in this manner and whether trades between them would work. If they don't refunds should be provided for those who can't attend the time the theater imposed on them (not their tickets since the tickets state the right time!).
Of course, there is always the option of trying to sneak in using the existing ticket, but why should consumers resort to subterfuge to get what they intended to in the first place.
This, quite frankly, is Capitalism Gone Wrong, and I don't think there are any ready solutions, although I would be interested in hearing how the rest of you think.
Call the corporate offices and explain to them your vast disappointment in the lack of responsibility of the management of the theater. Explain to them that there are several theater chains that you can patronize and that, while this is your favorite movie-haus, you just can't patronize a business that feels it must make its patrons pay for their mistakes.
Also explain to them that the sign was placed after you bought your tickets. Be sure to let them know that, as somebody who really stands for personal responsibility, you wouldn't have brought this up had the sign been posted earlier.
Be sure to stress that you see several movies a year, sometimes up to two a month. Tell this story to your friends and let the management know that you're posting your experiences on a large forum that recieves millions of hits a day. You're going to post a follow-up so that the consumers you interact with on this forum (here) can see whether or not this is a theater they'd like to patronize.
Finally, tell us the theater company, the location and -- this part is really important -- what happens when you call them.
If they come back and say, "Tough shit," I'll stop my patronage right now.
Good luck!
There's so little difference between politics and jihad lately...
Now that that's out of my system...
:)
As a matter of law, the theater is wrong. They can't later stick on the sign saying, "By the way, at this theter night means day." Even with the sign I think they'd be dancing on the edge of fraud. Mention this word to them, "fraud." You were induced to buy something that is worthless to you by their false representations. The only wrinkle is the discount price, which might theoretically have put you on notice, but I don't buy it.
As a practical matter, the amount involved is peanuts, which doesn't mean you aren't rightfully mad. It sounds like you explained things to them properly. Make sure you're talking to a real decisionmaker, as far up the chain as you can get. Write a letter even! Middle-lings sometimes like to assert their power unthinkingly.
The practical alternatives are not many. You could (1) picket; (2) badmouth them every chance you get; or (3) complain to the BBB and seek a settlement. I vote for #3.
Sympathies -- I hate being treated like that, as if their stupidity were my fault. (I wouldn't use that argument with them.
Thus they can put whatever letters they want on their tickets and it doesn't matter, because they said the "12:00" part and that was accurate.
I assume that you did because you bought it at a kiosk. You tried to address the situation with the theater, they didn't make it right, so the next step is to call up your credit card company. Tell them the story, and have them give you the procedure for disputing a charge. You'll probably have to write them a letter, but it should be pretty easy and painless.
Call Visa (or whomever) and ask for a charge-back. Tell them the theater refused to honor the tickets. They will refund your tickets. Just as importantly... Credit card merchants are evaluated on their chargebacks by Visa, et al. Too many (too high a ratio, or too many total) and they lose their merchant account. Once gone, it is virtually impossible to get back. Thus, MERCHANTS CARE ABOUT KEEPING CHARGEBACKS DOWN, which is one excellent incentive NOT to fuck your customers (at least those using cards). This mechanism is in place to protect people in similar situations... make use of it.
they are trying to screw you for their own convenience.
make a big noisy fuss right in the lobby at a time when there are lots of paying customers about. demand that they either refund your money or honour the tickets which you purchased in good faith. make sure everyone hears that the theater is not trustworthy.
don't make threats or swear a lot. you want the customers there to be sympathetic to you, so that the management looks bad to them, and you don't want to give them grounds to have you forcibly removed. don't let them lure you into some office out of public view; you want to give them bad publicity.
if you can't bring yourself to make a public fuss, then take the theater to small claims court for fraud. just suggesting that should make management decide that keeping your money isn't worth their time.
don't forget that they have cheated you. don't take it lying down.
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler. -- A.E.
Speaking from experience on both sides of the counter, the number one rule for "getting a refund" is to get angry. No venue wants an angry customer yelling in their lobby. On the other hand, quiet upset customers are perfectly acceptable. So don't be afraid to be loud and upset.
If I were in your shoes, I would
1) Show up at 11:30 PM - ignore the "12:00 midnight means noon" sign.
2) Get very loudly angry at the usher who says "there is no midnight showing." Start saying "I don't understand. I have tickets that say 12:00 midnight."
3) If the manager does not come over, ask the usher to get the manager.
4) Again, be loud and demand a refund. Say loudly things along the lines of "I have these tickets that say 12:00 AM. You're saying you don't have a film at this time. I want a refund for these worthless tickets." Be very upset. Refuse to be consoled.
I've used this technique when I've forgotten the credit card I used to purchase the tickets with. In both cases, the manager has told the usher to let me be seated.
I've worked way too much retail/serivce as a youth, so I've got a line on this one.
If the service/product you have been given is not up to par, or you have been cheated (our movie example is a great one), your first stop is the manager. If they are a good manager who is worth their pay they will take care of you, knowing that you are their paycheck.
If they are an idiot who is in retail/service management because they hung out too long and got promoted without merit you have to work a little. When they rebuff you, restate your position, and the importance of the issue to you as a continuing customer. If they still do not treat you properly, don't get mad and yell and scream. That makes you look like an irrational idiot. You want to make the manager look like an irrational idiot...
Go home. Look up another store in the chain/franchise. Call that store and ask for the manager. When you get the manager on the phone, tell them that you have a customer service issue where you were treated poorly and would like their help. Immediately let them know that it was not at their store but at a different location. This will take that manager off the defensive.
Then explain the situation, why you feel you were treated wrong, and how the manager responded when you went to them for help. Be sure to use that managers name. When you are finished telling them your story (and be brief, they have their own store to run) ask them if you can have a corporate customer serice number, and the store number for the other store if they can find it.
Usually the other manager will be more than happy to help you because you are not causing them a problem, or their store. They will tell you that you were treated wrong, how sorry they are, and then give you someone to call for further help. Heck, some of them will do it just to see their competetion for District Manager take a few knocks.
Now that you have the number to the real person you need, be sure to thank the manager who did help you, and tell them that all of your transactions with "STORE X" will be at their location from here out. They like that because it sounds like money in the bank. Then ask for their name/store # so you can tell the higher up's how well that manager did to help you despite not being a part of the problem.
Now, call the higher ups. Explain your situation. Be sure to tell them the name of the manager who screwed you, and the manager who helped you. Know what city each store/location is in. The store #'s if possible. Stay calm. From this point your case will be handled or escalated to someone who can handle it.
If you are feeling punitive, request that the store be audited. Most chains have 'secret shoppers' who go in and inspect things without identifying themselves. This can cause lots of troubles. Also give your area 'Weights & Measures' office a call. Tell them that the product they sold was not marked correctly (this was a BIG fine when I worked in California).
At the end of the day, if you can get someone at the corporate level, you will be taken care of, possibly given something extra for your inconvenience, and the manager in quesiton who did you wrong will have a note in their file that says "asshead to customer on xx/yy/20zz" which hurts their long time promotion status (don't feel guilty, jerks should not get promoted in a customer serivce industry).
Of course, if it's a mom & pop shop and not a chain/franchise, you are pretty much at their mercy. Slash their tires!
Grimwell - old, cranky, mean, obsessive
"One would assume you are proud of how you treat your customers, wouldn't you want others to hear what you have to say?"
Go to the theater, and ask to speak with the manager. Normally someone will get you him or her quickly.
Remember to always be polite and kind - you want them to think they are being good people
Tell the manager your story, as factually as possible. Tell him about the lack of the sign, and show him your tickets.
Tell him he can make a happy and loyal customer right now. If he refuses to honor/change the tickets:
* Tell him you will be writing a letter to
* Tell him you will be disputing the CC charge
* Tell him you will speaking with the Better Business Buereau in your area.
Companies really care about their CC ratings (chargebacks are expensive for them, and Visa gets awefully pissy to the merchent when they happen). They also care abotu BBB ratings. Alot. More than you might think.
Lastly, ask for the phone # of the managers supervisor. Everyone gets scared of people calling their managers.
12am is defined as the begining of a day. 12pm is defined as the middle of a day. in commerce, if not in nit-picking astronomy, that is what they mean.
When confronted with this ambiguous situation I have always taken PM to imply night and AM to imply day (yes, I know that's not really what they mean).
But don't take my word for it, a court in the US found in favor of a guy who got a parking ticket based on one of these ambiguous pseudo-times on the nearby no-parking sign. It was about five years ago, I think. Can't remember more details.
Hope the subject line doesn't make this sound like a fame. It was not meant that way.
Move on. There's nothing to see here.
Don't bother with the manager on duty, who probably has just enough authority to wipe his own ass. Write to the VP of operations or customer relations (big mega-chain), or general manager or president (regional / local chain).
The strategy is to make the reader believe that his theaters are about to get a liberal dose of bad PR, which no company in a highly-competitive service industry will risk. The tactic is to exhibit class, wit, and politeness to a fault (Patrick Stewart mode), in the course of making it explicitly clear that the company has done you wrong and owes you big-time for this affront. Subtle digs at the competence, intelligence, ancestry, etc. of staff and management are desirable as long as the aforementioned class, etc. is maintained.
Explain the circumstances in detail. State that the purchase of a theater ticket constitutes a contract (which it does), which is rendered no less valid or binding by their kiosk programmers' inability to distinguish noon from midnight, or by his staff's attempt to turn night into day with a disclaimer scrawled on a piece of cardboard (it probably was.) Mention the BBB, local TV news operations that love consumer-advocacy issues like this, the presence of a half-dozen competing theaters in the area (there usually are), etc. Close out by declaring that, while they have every right to maintain their no-refunds-etc. policy, your policy is to avoid like the plague businesses that rip people off through the biz's own incompetence, and you intend to apply same from this point forward unless reparations are forthcoming.
Oh, and, as an aside (especially if this is a national chain), note that you have already mentioned this incident on one of the Internet's most popular and respected tech forums, and that several hundred thousand avid movie-goers are interested in the outcome.
I suspect you won't have to wait long for an answer. A friend's S.O. wrote such a letter addressing a similar situation (dual literature / psych major; well-qualified to write complaint letters!) and ended up with a dozen passes, a letter of apology from the theater manager, and flowers!
You may or may not get (or want) flowers, but you'll probably be comped pretty well for your trouble. Not to mention the satisfaction of being able to redeem a bunch of freebies to the manager you know (and he probably suspects) was thoroughly bitch-slapped by his bosses at your instigation not long before.
Life is like surrealism: if you have to have it explained to you, you can't afford it.