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Automakers and Crash Data Recorders

The New York Times has a decent story about automakers not wanting to standardize car data recorders. There are a couple of nuances which the reporter mostly misses. The automakers want to avoid standardization because they can then sell access to the proprietary data format (NYT does cover this, but ignores the profit motive). The story mentions privacy issues but dismisses them as solved, yet notes that there are no privacy protections whatsoever for this data, and you can expect it to be used against you in any incident (and perhaps other times: wait until service under your warranty is refused because your car reported your bad driving habits to the dealer). That's not "solved" in my book (and I think the automakers realize that selling cars which report on their owners might backfire). Speculation about ambulance crews using crash data is just hype - no ambulance is equipped to do that, nor would I want an EMT to spend time decoding the crash data instead of, say, saving my life. The article repeatedly suggests that crash data would be used to enhance safety, without ever specifying how that is supposed to occur.

12 of 357 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Most people don't even do a "walk around" by Knife_Edge · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Holding car drivers to the same standards as aircraft is such a huge leap that the paperwork generated by it could likely employ everyone in America." I think you just solved all our economic problems in a single stroke!

  2. I fooled 'em all by kfg · · Score: 2, Funny

    I took out the whole bloody engine.

    Of course when they start putting this crap in my heart rate monitor I'm screwed.

    KFG

  3. Its for drivetrain litigation. Transpondors EVIL!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Its for drivetrain litigation.

    Remember the many lawsuits over Audi acceleration at stop lights into traffic? Strangely most lurching Audis were occupied by females and the gender of the driver had some role in the "hardware defect" that resulted in many near fatal and fatal accidents.

    Experts concluded it was usually the drivers fault.

    These spy chips (which also record speeding habits) could have avoided millions of dollars of hassles..... maybe... if they indicated if the driver was holding the gas pedal or not.

    I worked on transmissions... the laws for product liability insurance ofr drivetrain components are astounding. Drivetrain component suppliers would LOVE these tattle tale chips!

    But worse are the spy chips embedded in tires that can be read REMOTELY while driving.

    TOP SECRET FACT:Most modern cars have tracking transponders!

    A secret initiative exists to track all funnel-points on interstates and US borders for car tire ID transponders (RFid chips embedded in the tire).

    Yup. My brother works on them.

    Your tires have a passive coil with 64 to 128 bit serial number emitter in them! (AIAG B-11 ADC v3.0) . A particular frequency energizes it enough so that a receiver can read its little ROM. A ROM which in essence is your GUID for your TIRE. Multiple tires do not confuse the readers. Its almost identical to all "FastPass" "SpeedPass" technologies you see on gasoline keychain dongles and commuter windshield sticker-chips. The US gov has secretly started using these chips to track people.

    Its kind of like FBI "Taggants" in fertilizer and "Taggants" in Gasoline and Bullets, and Blackpowder. But these car tire transponder Ids are meant to actively track and trace movement of your car.

    I am not making this up. Melt down a high end Firestone, or Bridgestone tire and go through the bits near the rim (sometimes at base of tread) and you will locate the transmitter (similar to 'grain of rice' pet ids and Mobile SpeedPass, but not as high tech as the tollbooth based units). Sokymat LOGI 160, and Sokymat LOGI 120 transponder buttons are just SOME of the transponders found in modern high end car tires. The AIAG B-11 Tire tracking standard is now implemented for all 3rd party transponder manufactures [covered below].

    It is for QA and to prevent fraud and "car theft", but the US Customs service uses it in Canada to detect people who swap license plates on cars when doing a transport of contraband on a mule vehicle that normally has not logged enough hours across the border. The customs service and FBI do not yet talk about this, and are starting using it soon.

    Photos of chips before molded into tires:

    http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:TAQIKjBI01g C: www.sokymat.com/sp/applications/tireid.html

    (slashdot ruins links, so you will have to remove the ASCII space it insertess usually into the url above to get to the shocking info and photos on the enbedded LOGI 160 chips that the us gov scans when you cross mexican and canadian borders.)

    You never heard of it either because nobody moderates on slashdot anymore and this is probably +0 still. It has also never appeared in print before and is very secret.

    Californias Fastpass is being upgraded to scan ALL responding car tires in future years upcoming. I-75 may get them next in rural funnel points in Ohio.

    http://www.tadiran-telematics.com/products6.html

    but the fact is... YOU PROBABLY ALREADY HAVE A RADIO TRANSPONDER not counting your digital cell phone which is routinely silently pulsed in CA bay area each rush hour morning unless turned off (consult Wired Magazine Expose article). Those data point pulses are used by NSA on occasions.

    The us FBI with NRO/NSA blessings, has requested us gov make this tire scanning information as secret as the information regarding all us inkjet printers sold in usa in the last 3 years using "yellow" GUID barcode under dark ink regions to serialize printouts to thwart counterfeiting of 20 dollar bills. (30 to 40 percent of ALL California counterfeiting is done using cheap Epson inkjet printers, most purchased with credit cards foolishly). Luckily court dockets divulge the existence of the Epson serial numbers on your printouts... but nobody except a handful of people know about this Tire scanning upgrade to big brother's arsenal.

    YOU MUST BUY NEUTRALIZED OR FOREIGN TIRES!!!!! Soon such tires will become illegal to import or manufacture, just as Gasoline must have "Taggants" added or gasoline is illegal, as are non-self-aging 9 mm bullets.

    It is currently VERY illegal to buy or disable the "911 help" GPS emitter in digital cell phones in the US or ship a modified phone across state borders, but it is still legal to turn off your cell phone in your car while travelling. As you should. And you should be wary of your tires now too. : http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:TAQIKjBI01gC: www.sokymat.com/sp/applications/tireid.html

    Alternatively you could illegally build jamming devices at : 13.56 MHz, + 1,356 MHz +- many freqs (TI-RFid) and a few others. If microwave is ever employed you might not be able to effectively jam but your brain would possibly cook over time, as it now known as of this year that the three harmonic resonances of water are not the only chemical actions harming human tissue at gigaherz frequencies. Jammers would be illegal and violators easy to locate. Tire removal is the only option.

    RFIDs have been covertly used and sold by TI for over ten years are in many many products... and now your tires are being read by the us gov as you drive at speeds of up to 100 Mph on primary US interstate corridors. (Actually 160 km/h).

    Those same US interstate corridors have radiation detectors too, but a small layer of stacks of interlocked graphite blocks those from detecting stealthy deliveries. Graphite blocks are IDEAL for shipping "dirty bomb" components, I believe.

    Anyway, regarding tire radio transmitters: the sokymat LOGI 160, and sokymat LOGI 120) are just SOME of the transponders found in modern tires. The earliest tire radio spy chips had only 64 bit serial numbers but they have rapidly evolved post Sept 11 bombings: LOGI 160 LOGI 120 has 224 bit R/W memory (sokymat.ch) to be marked using external hand help injectors with "salt" info when the fbi tags your parked car.

    Basically the FBI "marks your car" without touching it physically, thus eliminating a "warrant" to put a locater on your vehicle. Just as the FBI can listen to you while you are at home by LEGALLY bouncing an infrared beam off your vibrating window pane and modulating the signal, the US Gov can LEGALLY inject (program) a saltable read-write sokymat LOGI eeprom tire chip (and other brands of tire transponders)

    Using these chips to track people while they drive is actually the idea of the us gov, and current chips CANNOT BE DISABLED or removed. They hope ALL tires will have these chips in 5 years and hope people have a very hard time finding non-chipped tires. Removing the chips is near impossible without destroying the tire as the chips were designed with that DARPA design goal.

    They are hardened against removal or heat damage or easy eye detection and can be almost ANYWHERE in the new "big brother" tires. In fact in current models they are integrated early and deep into the substrate of the tire as per US FBI request.

    Our freedom of travel are going away in 2003, because now there is an international STANDARD for all tire transponder RFID chips and in 2004 nearly ALL USA cars will have them. Refer to AIAG B-11 ADC, (B-11 is coincidentally Post Sept 11 fastrack initiative by US Gov to speed up tire chip standardization to one read-back standard for highway usage).

    The AIAG is "The Automotive Industry Action Group"

    The non proprietary (non-sokymat controlled) standard is the AIAG B-11 standard is the "Tire Label and Radio Frequency Identification" standard

    "ADC" stands for "Automatic Data Collection"

    The "AIDCW" is the US gov manipulated "Automatic Identification Data Collection Work Group"

    The standard was started and finished rapidly in less than a year as a direct consequence of the Sep 11 attacks by Saudi nationals.

    I believe detection of the AIAG B-11 radio chips (RFIS serial number transponders) in the upgraded car tracking http://www.tadiran-telematics.com/products6.html is currently secret knowledge. Another reason to leave "finger print on Driver license" California, but Ohio gets it next, as will every other state eventually.

    The AIAG is claiming the chips reduce car theft, assist in tracking defects, and assists error-proofing the tire assembly process. But the real secret is that these 5 cent devices are a us government backed initiative to track citizens travel without their consent or ability to disable the transponders in any way.

    All tire manufacturers are forced to comply AIAG B-11 3.0 Radio Tire tracking standard by the 2004 model year.

    http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:-qJPsZjkMAM C: www.aiag.org/publications/b11.html

    Viewing b11 synopsis is free, downloads from that are $10 and tracked by the FBI. Use the google cache to avoid leaving breadcrumbs.

    And just as showerheads are now illegal to import into the USA from Canada or mexico, as are drums of industrial Freon, and standard size toilets are illegal to import for home use, soon car tires without radio transponders will be illegal to bring across state borders.

    The US gov is getting away with this. You read it here first.

    Learn and read.

  4. Voice data of fatal crashes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    If they captured voice data they would find that fatal crashes have these statistics:

    10% of last words spoken are "SHIT!"
    90% of last words spoken are "Hold my beer and watch this!"

  5. Re:Its for drivetrain litigation. Transpondors EVI by threephaseboy · · Score: 4, Funny
    RFIDs have been covertly used and sold by TI for over ten years are in many many products... and now your tires are being read by the us gov as you drive at speeds of up to 100 Mph on primary US interstate corridors. (Actually 160 km/h)

    Solution: Never drive under 100 MPH
    --
    .
  6. Re:Its for drivetrain litigation. Transpondors EVI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Woah dude, I'm like totally inspired. All these assholes suck ass yeah.

    I melted my tires just like you said and loads of weird shit fell out. I was a bit suprised because my car is a 1982 Daihatsu, but I'm not sure when the tires were fitted. I found something that might have been a silicon chip but without an electron microscope its pretty hard to tell.

    I totally agree with you man. Like, unless you can disprove something, its gotta be true, right?

    And shit dude, I've seen fuckin millions of UFOs. They used to be on Fox all the fuckin time.

    Fuckin yeah.

  7. Re:Or... by DarkZero · · Score: 3, Funny

    Unless it becomes state or federal law not to, maybe it is and I am unaware of the respective laws, than no info recorded, no info reported.

    Yes, because as we all know, politicians have no interest in using technology to intrude into our lives and/or further corporate profits.

  8. Re:*sigh* by pVoid · · Score: 3, Funny
    Regardless, it's a pretty useless thing...

    -This man's neck is broken...

    -How broken?

    -Let's check... he was going at 90mph... it's VERY broken.

    -Aright, I guess we can take a break, there's no way he's coming back alive... Hey we even got proof he was going faster than a cesna.

  9. Re:How far off to be pseudo-manatory? by John+Jorsett · · Score: 2, Funny

    On a side note, they are working here in my area to make it legal and acceptable to fire someone beacuse they smoke on OFF hours..

    Hmmm. I'd like to see the reaction to a bill that would allow the firing of anyone engaging in unsafe sex in their off hours.

  10. Whoo hoo! by I+Am+The+Owl · · Score: 3, Funny

    I say, go for it. I know I'm a safe driver, and it sure would be sweet to see all those assholes who zip through traffic in their Expeditions with monster truck tires get busted through their data recorders.

    --

    --sdem
  11. Re:The bottom line: by mbogosian · · Score: 3, Funny

    If you can remove the recorder, then it can definitely be disabled.

    This will definitely be in violation of the DMCA, or the Freedom of FUD Through Misappropriated Safety Information for the Benefit of Consumers By Way of Increased Corporate Corruption Act of 2004 or whatever Screw you, Joe Voter! legislation is on the books at the time.

  12. Re:Data recorders will save you money! by FredGray · · Score: 3, Funny
    Well the insurance should still cover the accident, unless you caused it on purpose. Accidents are what insurance covers anyway, not deliberate crashes.

    A few years ago, I was involved in an incident where the other driver was high on PCP and was deliberately ramming other vehicles. There were five collisions before his car got stuck over a median. At that point, he stripped off all his clothes because he thought it would make him invisible.

    His insurance company (State Farm) paid the claim.