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Success Despite College Rejection

selan writes "Are those who are rejected by prestigious schools destined to lead mediocre lives? Or are great people more likely to succeed if they were rejected by top universities? An inspirational column in the Washington Post discusses the "Spielberg Effect", a theory that it really doesn't matter where you went to school."

12 of 388 comments (clear)

  1. for my PhD... by stonebeat.org · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I would go to the best college, that I can afford to go to. I dont think UnderGraduate studies matter that much. It is for the higher degrees that you need to go to the prestigeous institutions....

    1. Re:for my PhD... by rigau · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't know about Harvey Mudd and Reed but i do know that MIT, CalTech, Swarthmore, and Haverford are extremely selective schools.

      I think that the story behind the percentage of graduate students might be a little bit more complicated than the one you present.

      It is true that small class environments are better. One has to think about the kind of student that decides to go to one of these "lesser known"1 schools over a more famous one. Most of the time these students will be people who are more interested in the work they will be doing in school than in the self-promotion value of the degree. Thus they see their college education as worthwhile in and of itself instead as just another requirement to fullfil on the way to success.

      1 I use quotation marks because while most people don't know about schools like swarthmore or haverford people who make decisions in graduate schools do.

    2. Re:for my PhD... by sasami · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sorry, that was unclear. I meant academic records at their own institution: the admissions office will usually keep tabs on their admits' progress after admission. At least, undergrad admissions does, and I expect grad divisions keep such records as well.

      As for "popular prestige," the term is vague because I'm simplifying. But it roughly refers to the school's standing in popular culture. There obviously is no agreement on it. Yet, the most common objection I hear when recommending schools is, "I've never heard of it." People will be steadfastly adamant on this point, often spluttering and rationalizing on the spot (and sounding like morons) when I ask for evidence and justification. If I press the issue, it invariably turns out that they can't even name a couple of dozen schools in total (not including "University of X"). So much for "popular prestige."

      The term is about as vague as your reference to "academic reputation." Now, if you mean that you've done the legwork to find out hard facts about the department you're applying to, then I applaud you. Any component of "reputation" that is not factually verifiable is probably hearsay.

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  2. huh by Graspee_Leemoor · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think you need to look at the definition of "succeed" in this instance. I'm betting that it will come from the same kind of place as all that "having a life" and "making the most of yourself" nonsense.

    E.g. if you become the head of a medium-sized business selling widgets worldwide then you have "succeeded". Big Fucking Deal.

    The point of life is to have fun. That's it.

    I recommend not working. Why give most of your life to an unfeeling corporation ?

    I also recommend not getting married. It always ends in tears.

    Forget what society expects you to be. Ignore what your parents want you to be. Be what you want to be- for yourself and no-one else.

    graspee

    1. Re:huh by dgb2n · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ok, I'll bite.

      There's an old saying that if you want to be happy you need three things.

      1. Something to do - Usually translates to some sort of job. You'll never be happy if you don't contribute to society and waste the gifts you've been given.

      2. Someone to Love - Go ahead never take a risk because it ends in tears. Marriage also ends in tears of laughter. I've shed tears in my marriage but I can't imagine my life without her.

      3. Something to look forward to - Without hope, life is pointless. You sound like you need something to look forward to.

      A couple of more thoughts on your less salient points.

      E.g. if you become the head of a medium-sized business selling widgets worldwide then you have "succeeded". Big Fucking Deal

      I hate to break the news to you but the Big Fucking Deal of being the head of the medium-sized business isn't the glamorous challenge of selling widgets, its the lifestyle which such a position would afford you. It means a comfortable house, a car more enjoyable than a used Hyundai, and the resources to travel and enjoy a few vacations.

      The point of life is to have fun. That's it.

      If you think thats the entire point of life, you're missing the point. Perhaps the point is making a difference in the lives of others. That head of a business employs other people and in a small mundane way, probably makes the world a better place.

      Having fun is much easier with a job. I enjoy skiing. Lift tickets cost money. I enjoy gadgets. Gadgets costs money. The irony is that if you make money your goal, you're doomed to unhappiness and you won't have any fun. A money centered or self centered life will guaranteee very little fun and very little joy.

      I choose joy.

    2. Re:huh by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In other words, you have a crappy job, no prospects and women can't stand the sight of you.

      Therefore, you define happiness as containing none of those things.

      Boy, that sure is profound.

      --
      Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
  3. Observational Selection ? by Valluvan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why does this sound to me like "Observational selection" that Carl Sagan listed in his Baloney detection kit ? What about those who got rejected and did not exactly shake up the world later in their life ?

    The effects of a rejection could be positive or negative. There could be many reasons why Greg Forbes Siegman did what he did...too many variables and circumstances. "theorising" does not seem to be the right thing to do.

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    Science as a way of life.
  4. Re:Teacher from HELL by MattW · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why should he be? Is there some requirement to always write glowing recommendations when describing students to colleges?

  5. Personality matters. by Gyan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If your makeup is that of someone who is entrepreneurial, creative, takes initiative/risks and works at it, college just becomes a formality to please the business mentality at large when you're starting. You're likely to succeed anyway.
    The college you go to doesn't matter*

    *Elitist wall-street and legal firms not included.

  6. Re:Since by Artifex · · Score: 3, Insightful
    It wasn't even single sex accommodation, so we couldn't engage in the fun and games of para-homosexual activities
    ...which you dearly missed from your public school days, and the all-but-institutionalized homosexual relationships you forged with your cohort and masters. Only those privileged enough to attend Catholic school here are guaranteed the opportunity to get the benefit of that experience.

    If your wicket's not already sticky in reverie, I have two more words taken from the British Boy's Own Lexicon: soggy biscuits, a treat seemingly unique to the cuisine of that northern island country of queens.

    I'm not serious, of course - I love England, and we'll pretend I didn't wish I could have spent my formative years in boarding school there, myself. The point is, you're making (ethnic?) prejudicial slurs against "the Greeks", begging comparison back to your own quirky system. In the U.S., the partying buffoons are allowed to expose themselves, have a good time, burn out, and eventually become used-car dealers and fast-food restaurant managers; in yours, they seem rather more likely to become "captains of industry." That's only natural, since you've had a few hundred more years to build up the Old Boy (bedsheet) Network.
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  7. When I interview, I ignore education entirely by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 5, Insightful
    In all my years of interviewing candidates for programming jobs, I have found that educational background is basically irrelevant. As long as you went to college, thats all I want to know.

    Everything else depends on how you answer my programming questions. If you have an MIT Ph.D, what good is that if you don't know answers to rudimentary programming questions? I don't care about "capacity to learn" at this point, I want someone who can produce. Being a big thinker is far less important to me than the ability to crank out good code fast. In fact I have found the big thinkers to be more useless than the humble trench soldier.

  8. True greatness. by leereyno · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The thing that struck me about this article is just how obvious its conclusions should be. The article starts of as if the rational assumption is that your destiny and accomplishments are somehow pre-determined by what some ivy league university thinks of your application. I'm sure the ivy league universities would just love it if everyone believed that, but it is patently false.

    I really shouldn't have to be saying this, but the things that lead to sucess are character and hard work. Where one goes to school makes no difference at all. The ivy league schools get a good reputation because they are able to pick and choose applicants who they believe have the character and intelligence to suceed. From there it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. Going to Harvard no more gives you character and discipline any more than not going there deprives you of them.

    When one looks at history it is evident that most of the great discoveries and accomplishments were achieved by those with mediocre academic records. Einstein was working as a patent clerk because he couldn't get a teaching job. Edison didn't even have a sixth grade education. Both Newton and Maxwell were undistinguished prior to their major discoveries.

    Once upon a time people understood that it is character and hard work that lead to greatness, why our culture has forgotten that I just don't know. Nowadays people seem to think that success is some kind of trick, or is achieved though one's image. So people chase after degrees from the ivy league because they think that if other people think that they are great then they will be. Sorry Charlie, the most someone with that approach will achieve is the ability to con everyone including themself. True greatness comes from within and it is not something that can be bought, faked or manufactured.

    Lee

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