Help Wire Remote Laos Villages

rODbegbie writes "Lee Felsenstein is appealing for donations to help provide Internet access to remote Laos villages. The New York Times considered the idea one of the best in 2002, but they need to raise $25,000 to get this in place before monsoon season. Donations can be made using Paypal (mention that it's for "Remote IT")."

Comments

Weirdly appropriated money

[Anonymous Coward]

People need food and shelter before they can worry about getting online. I know that it's stupid to say that they should be donating something else, but...it just seems like there's a huge push to get underdeveloped areas on the 'net instead of taking care of necessities first.

Hmmmm

[Gortbusters.org]

This sounds interesting, but what is the total value proposition for internet usage to a bunch of village farmers?

More important things than the Internet

[stevejsmith]

I don't think that Laos needs free Internet connections. I think what they need is houses, and a literacy rate above 60%. How do expect a small village, only 60% literate, to know how to use the Internet? In a country where the phones to people ratio is well over 1:100, I doubt that the Internet will be of must use.

I'll repeat what I said about India regarding the Simputer: there are more important things than the Internet. You know, food, water, shelter during the monsoon season

Re:More important things than the Internet

[plierhead]

I don't think that Laos needs free Internet connections. I think what they need is houses, and a literacy rate above 60%. How do expect a small village, only 60% literate, to know how to use the Internet?

I agree theres a whole lot of other stuff they need more than internet access. But, if thats whats on offer, I wouldn't say it is useless because of high illiteracy rates. It might only take one semi-literate person in a small village, AND some compelling content, to plant the seeds for others to teach themselves to read. It might be surprising just what people can teach themselves, and perhaps the internet could be the key to reducing illiteracy.

Re:More important things than the Internet

[DaytonCIM]

Amen to that.

Maybe we should do something about AIDs, mass starvation, and the infant mortality rate in third world nations before we start handing out chat handles and email accounts.

Re:More important things than the Internet

[Draxinusom]

Did you bother to read any of the linked webpages? First of all, there are plenty of useful applications for the internet: to get accurate and timely information about crops pricing, to stay in touch with relatives scattered by poverty and war, to bid on things like construction jobs. The bare necessities are also desperately needed, but it's not completely inconceivable that one communally-owned computer could bring much more cost-effective and immediate benefit to a village than, say, literacy education, which while necessary in the long-term is expensive and doesn't pay dividends for years. Secondly, if you take what's been written about this project in good faith, this is something that the Laotian villagers asked for. It's fantastic that you seem to know better than the people themselves what they need, but unless you're going to put your money where your mouth is and pony up some housing, why deride the efforts of people who are actually trying to help?

Re:More important things than the Internet

[raju1kabir]

I don't think that Laos needs free Internet connections. I think what they need is houses, and a literacy rate above 60%. How do expect a small village, only 60% literate, to know how to use the Internet?

So you don't think that anyone should be able to do anything beyond subsistence until everyone has been raised to their level?

You have to keep education and opportunity moving forward, or else there's no room for people to grow into.

Among the 60% who are literate, some will do great things given the opportunity. They will also be able to prepare their society for a smoother transition into greater capacity when more resources are available, because computers will not be alien to them.

Of course, you and Trotsky are free to disagree with me.

Pointless

[geek]

Most people in Laos don't have computers or even a need for one. Why would internet connections be "one of the best ideas of 2002"??

Is this necessary?

[rblancarte]

I just came back from a small village in Mexico about the size of this one. They have internet access now, but I have to ask: Do these people really need it?
These people have gotten along fine without computers, why do they need them now?
Sure, it is a nice convenience for tourists when they travel to these areas, but you can't tell me indiginious people, such as these, truely need internet access or computer usage.

You're Joking Right?

[_Neurotic]

Remote Laos villages?
Sorry but speaking as an American, I'm more worried about wiring remote US villages and schools.

This crap is absurd. Did Al Gore start this?

[ThresholdRPG]

I am getting really fed up with these appeals to make the general population of either our nation or the world PAY for internet access for others. Internet access is *NOT* equivalent to food or health care.

I realize we all feel the internet is a miraculous invention that is "setting people free." I generally hold this view as well. But it is not a necessity!

This reminds me of all of the extra fees on your telephone bill that were put there by Al Gore. Yes, the "creating of the internet" that Al Gore takes credit for is largely the sneaky tax increases he jammed through Congress by adding numerous fees to your phone bill. That money is then used as welfare to (supposedly) give free internet access to low income folks. That is *NOT* the proper role of government.

Similarly, bringing internet access to the jungles of Southeast asia is *NOT* the role of charitable organizations and it is certainly not the type of project that should be gobbling up the limited funds charitable people have to donate to causes in the world.

Internet access is a part of a nation's technological and industrial infrastructure that needs to evolve organically along with the rest of its culture. You cannot take a country that is 50+ years behind the western industrialized world and plop down mondern internet technology. It makes no sense and it is a huge waste. If you want to help these countries economically, you need to help them get a basic economic infrastructure in place so they can actually grow in a normal fashion.

This kind of crap is frivilous, back-patting BS being done by people who want to feel like they are "making the world a better place." In truth, they are accomplishing nothing.

If you want to help out people in the 3rd world, join the Peace Corps.

Re:This crap is absurd. Did Al Gore start this?

[l1_wulf]

I guess it has become stylish to post before readin the full articles. Oh wait, that has always been in style.

Internet access is *NOT* equivalent to food or health care.

Kinda funny how you mention health care, but had you read some of the actual linked articles you would read about how the final link to the Internet from the 5 village WiFi network is located where -- in a hospital.

This reminds me of all of the extra fees on your telephone bill that were put there by Al Gore. Yes, the "creating of the internet" that Al Gore takes credit for is largely the sneaky tax increases he jammed through Congress by adding numerous fees to your phone bill. That money is then used as welfare to (supposedly) give free internet access to low income folks. That is *NOT* the proper role of government.

That's funny, I must have skipped over the part that mentions our government's role in all this.

Similarly, bringing internet access to the jungles of Southeast asia is *NOT* the role of charitable organizations...

I was unaware that there are base rules dictating what form of help a charitable organization is allowed to offer. Are you the head of the Charitable Organization Rules Committee?

If you want to help these countries economically, you need to help them get a basic economic infrastructure in place so they can actually grow in a normal fashion.

All in all, these five villages are actually doing fairly well. They are now able to grow surplus rice and they wish to export handmade textiles. The computers and network will allow these people to grow financially. As I understand it they either do now (although not from a local phone) or they used to use telephone calls to check market prices, etc. Access to the network and phone system that is proposed will incur charges, allowing it to be a self sustaining system. It sounds to me like they've got the basic economic infrastructure in place already, they're just getting a 200 year technological boost to help compete in the world market.

Don't take this rant personally ThresholdRPG, I know I quoted from your post, but only out of convenience. It is pretty obvoius that the majority of people who have posted comments did not even bother to read a single link from the /. "article".

Now... Since I've played the devil's advocate, my opinion: I think we've got enough things to worry about here in our own country that would make a better choice for my donations. Hell, if we're trying to give people Internet connections, how about our own underprivledged schools? Wouldn't it be great if we didn't have to look overseas for programmers, etc. etc. etc.

Re:This crap is absurd. Did Al Gore start this?

[Kunta Kinte]

I am getting really fed up with these appeals to make the general population of either our nation or the world PAY for internet access for others. Internet access is *NOT* equivalent to food or health care.

First of all, nobody is making do anything. They are asking for a dontation. If you don't think it's prudent use of your hard earned money, then don't give.

Second of all, internet access is not equivalent to food or health care, but it could be considered as part of a close third. Communication.

The internet is a very cheap but capable communications device. Email allows people who don't have a phone and can not pay of a service to send messages to love ones, as someone else stated.

It does not mean everyone is going to have a laptop with 11b. There could be one office, similar to a telegraph office, for send and delivering messages.

World news can be printed, everyday and distributed. How much would a newspaper subscription cost otherwise? Maybe it's read over the radio, maybe it's sold at a price closer to what locals can afford.

This kind of crap is frivilous, back-patting BS being done by people who want to feel like they are "making the world a better place." In truth, they are accomplishing nothing.

How easily you dispatch the hard work and efforts of others trying to do good for people that probably never could repay them.

When was the last time you tried that?

screw them

[AssFace]

I want one of them flat screen TVs and you don't see me begging for other people to help.

that said, just post up if you want to donate money to my cause.

Damn Laotians.

Remote village? Nine miles from a Laotian city?

[Anonymous Coward]

The article, after you get through the condescending crap about the primitive villagers and their pedal-powered computers, tells us that the "remote village" in question is nine miles from a Laotian city. Nine miles is remote?

It's been over 35 years since I was last in a truly remote Laotian village, but I can assure you that (at least then) there wasn't anything approaching a 60% literacy rate; that they got weather reports, market information (and horrible music) by commercial radio; and that they needed clean water, sanitation, medical care, roads, electricity, etc. much more than the needed the internet.

CONFUSCIUS SAY

[PD]

Internet is like fortune cookie without rest of meal.

Excuse my skepticism...

[Pollux]

But something's not adding up here.

1) We're delivering internet access to a remote country to remote villages in a far-east Asian country. Villages in that area (Laos, Vietnam, Thailand) consist mostly of small farmers and laborers who have probably never heard of the internet, let alone a computer.

2) The reasons the villagers need computers are (taken from the article):

a: a way to make phone calls so that they could communicate with relatives overseas

b: to secure local crop pricing information.

c: the use of small spreadsheets and simple word processing so that they could bid on things like construction jobs.

A sounds understandable. B...that would work as an excuse here in America, but it doesn't make sense for Laos. Remembering some old cultural information, most farms there are very small-scale (a few acres at the most), meaning that farmers wouldn't own silos. Along with the lack of huge harvests, there's seems to be no necessary need for them to periodically check up on crop pricing. And option C? ...if you read the article, it says that "This year, they're living in the 19th century; next year, they'll be in the 21st," meaning that they're doing this right now with pencil and paper, or by oral arrangement. Why a pressing need to move them into the 21st century?

3) Expenses (again, from the webpage):

a: $1,000 One RT US-Laos Trip for One Technical Consultant

Why are we paying a "consultant" to set up a single computer system in a remote village? Typically, someone who volunteers the time and energy to undertake such an adventure finds ways of appealing to travel agencies to cut expenses so that volunteered dollars go further.

b: $1,500 One Complete Jhai Computer

Why in the world are they paying $1,500 for a computer system for "the use of small spreadsheets and simple word processing"? Sure, many readers might think they're just buying a "new computer" without knowing how to get cheaper deals elsewhere. But the supposed letter has some very detailed information: "...interconnected by Wi-Fi (802.11b) digital data links and coupled to the local phone system several miles away. Through this system VOIP (digital telephone) calls could be placed to the local phone lines..." If they have that technical knowledge, they should know very well how to set up a cheaper computer system (As cheap as $400 for a new Lindows system including monitor, etc) that will accomplish the same thing.

c: $2,500 One Complete Village Set-up

What the hell is this? "Complete Village Set-up?" I didn't know that we were turning this into a profitable business when it involves volunteered donations! I mean, seriously, look at this supposed "line-item" description of what the project costs:

$10 20 lbs. shipping costs
$25 Keyboard
$50 Headset
$75 Antenna
$100 Battery
$250 Bicycle Powered Generator
$450 CPU or Mountain Top Solar Panel
$850 Base Station
$1,000 One RT US-Laos Trip for One Technical Consultant
$1,500 One Complete Jhai Computer
$2,500 One Complete Village Set-up
$3,000 Relay Station

$25,000 The Full 5 Village System

This sure doesn't add up to $25,000! And why does the village need a solar panel if they're going to generate electricity with a bicycle generator?

This list keeps getting longer and longer. Why are they setting up a wi-fi network when much of Laos is mountainous and forest? That kind of terrain will eat up any 802.11 communication!

On top of it all, how are they asking for donations? Through PayPal. A slick way of getting easy money, and an easy way to bag and run.

Now, I could be completely wrong, and all this might be an actual true organization with good intentions. But as I said before, something just isn't adding up.

MIT's Nicholas Negroponte said it best

[madro]

Here's the quote:

"In the comfort of being digital, we forget the enormous leverage a single Net connection provides to, say, a rural primary school in one of the hundred poorest nations. In these places, there are no libraries and almost no books; the schoolhouse is sometimes a tree. To suddenly have access to the world's libraries - even at 4,800 bits per second - is a change of such magnitude that there is no way to understand it from the privileged position of the developed world.

But the [rest of the world] understands. World leaders realize that the most precious natural resource of any country is its children, and that the digital world is key to education. For this reason, development is starting not only to include but to mean telecommunications."

(http://web.media.mit.edu/~nicholas/Wired/WIRED6 -0 1.html for the original.)

To be fair, Negroponte got the 'how' wrong (he thought satellites would provide cheap internet access), but the why is spot on. People talk about how you can't leapfrog 50-200 years of development to catch up to the industrialized world ... but third-world countries can't wait around -- they *must* find ways to accelerate the process and skip stages (like the industrial revolution, perhaps) in order to build an economy to support their citizens.

We talk about helping the poor in the US or in Europe ... you want to see poverty? Get to the rural areas of Asian countries. Do whatever you want with your money -- but at least hope the project or something like it will somehow succeed.

Peace Corps

[Nomar]

Funny that you mention the Peace Corps...I have a good friend who just ended his Peace Corps tour in rural Thailand (about two hours from the Laos border). One of the main projects he worked on was writing grant proposals to fund a similar wireless infrastructure for hilltribe villages. In this case, it was mainly for use as an intranet. Having quick communication is basic economic infrastructure.

I'll add that all of this was initiated by the hilltribes themselves. They see the benefits of technology and will probably use them in ways we don't expect, probably in ways a lot more useful than our websurfing.

Re:I'm sure AOL...

[jareth780]

The people of Laos don't need internet access, they need more food and a better standard of living.

"Why don't you help them out with that, then?"

I'm only one person. What can I do? Besides, I'd rather just sit here and surf the web.

Exactly!

[bluephone]

Finall, someone with a cluestick. I'm all for bringing the power of computing and the Internet to all people, but not before they can live long enough to use it. And it's not just Laos. I think we're blinding ourselves to other, more basic problems that should be fixed first. Like food riots, mass famines, widespread disease. Even here in the US we have slightly more important problems, like millions being laid off of work (real jobs, not just our cushy tech jobs), rising prescription costs (that are already FAR out of the tolerable range), and school systems using 20 year old books (and teachers that make those 20 year old books look like fountains of wisdom).

I'm being a drag, yeah, but there ARE more important things that WiFi in Chong Mek.

And to be selfish for a moment (I am an American after all), how about cheap high speed access for ME? South Korea has 8Mbps for $38 a month. I get 768/128kbps for $50. Thanks Telecommunications Reform Act! (And yeah, I voted for the guy that signed that one into law...)