Scripting Language City

Ursus Maximus writes "Scripting Language City is for folks who want to learn more about the future of this increasingly important subset of the programming universe. Scripting languages are not just for odd jobs anymore ;-))). Special attention is paid to four languages in Python City, Ruby City, Perl City, and JavaScript Expert Systems which includes a Scripting Language Chooser Program as well as a Basketball Expert Ssystem and a Football Expert System that are certainly something different from the usual same old mouse-over scripts usually found on JavaScript sites. There is also a web spider program that scrapes the web daily and provides updated lists of new web articles on scripting languages, with seperates outputs for each of the featured languages. as added bonuses, there is a page of essays and resources on open source and the free software movement called Farnham's Freehold and a page called The Linux Chronicles that follows the experiences of a Linux newbie with wit and humor. Not a slick professional web site, Scripting Language City is a work of love by a paramour of everything connected with scripting languages, open source, and the programming of free software."

Comments

Web design

[AndyAMPohl]

I'm sure the content is quite useful, and I'll probably take advantage of the Python site at some point, but goodness. Don't people still care about aesthetics? The font size/colors are just awful.

Andy

Re:Web design

[AndyAMPohl]

Maybe it's just the frontpage I find a little obnoxious. Clicking past it goes to pages laid out differently.

Re:Web design

[JimDabell]

Quite. You have to wonder about the quality of a website that claims to offer advice on scripting (both on and off the web), yet cannot even cobble together a decent website (not just the aesthetics, I'm talking about <font> elements, etc).

what about VBA?

[b_pretender]

I'll probably be modded down for saying this, but what about VBA? It is one of the most important scripting languages. I work in the finance world where Perl/Python/C++ on Unix are used for many things, but VBA is just as or more important because we all use Excel, and *the* scripting language for excel is VBA.

I also know that other fields use VBA without knowing that the other scripting languages even exist. Having a scripting city without VBA is sort of like having San Fransisco without china town.

Even if you are vehemently opposed to VBA for moral reasons, think about the benefit of having a VBA section of your website. When people search the web for VBA help, they come to your website, get the help that they need and learn that these other beautiful scripting languages exist that might provide benefits which VBA cannot.

Re:what about VBA?

[bihoy]

Is VBA considered a scripting language?
I thought it was an interprted language that get's compiled into byte code.

Re:what about VBA?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, an interpreted language that gets compiled into byte code, just like Python and Perl and Tcl.

Re:what about VBA?

[__past__]

There are several common definitions of "scripting language", none of which is very useful.

Perl, Python and Java get compiled to bytecode, too - but (AFAIK) Perl always compiles to bytecode "on the fly" and never stores it on disk, Python compiles modules on the first import and keeps bytecode files for faster future loading, and Java uses only the byte-compiled files. Other languages, like OCaml or Lisp, can be interpreted or compiled to either byte- or native code. Somebody wrote an interpreter for C. So, which of these languages is a scripting language?

I guess the best definition would be "People are more likely to consider it for smaller projects". It's not a property of a language or an implementation of a language (which might be identical, e.g. perl defines Perl), but of the mindset of it's users.

That said, the term "scripting" originally meant writing glue code to control the "real" app, which is pretty much what VBA does. (BTW, you do know the difference between VB and VBA, do you? VB is the one that is used for standalone apps, while VBA is what you get in the "macro editor" of MS Office. They are not the same language.)

try lynx

[nandix]

i agree, while i prefer content-oriented sites to web pages loaded with images and
animations, this layout has a very negative impact on the usability of the site.
however, give it a try with lynx, i just did and it looks much better (kinda like reading
through a man or info page).

team 1 score 0, team 2 score 0, team 2 will win

[random735]

Set all the values identical and have it predict the winner...someone forgot to code the "tie" case. Not much of an expert if you ask me.

Re:team 1 score 0, team 2 score 0, team 2 will win

[josephgrossberg]

No kidding. That was the first thing I tried. random735 is talking about the basketball simulator in case you were wondering.

Re:team 1 score 0, team 2 score 0, team 2 will win

[josephgrossberg]

Also, there is no value checking on input for the program. Ugh.

The instructions say from 1-10, but a user can input 0, 11, or "a".

Factors in choosing a scripting language

[Pingster]

The scripting language chooser is a simple Javascript program that adds up scores for each of the scripting languages based on eight decision factors. A quick look at the source of the page reveals the weightings used to compare the four candidate languages:

....Python: a*10 + b*10 + c*-10 + d*7 + e*6 + f*10 + g*10 + h*7
......Perl: a*6 + b*7 + c*-10 + d*10 + e*10 + f*10 + g*1 + h*2
......Ruby: a*5 + b*8 + c*-10 + d*6 + e*1 + f*10 + g*7 + h*10
JavaScript: a*9 + b*9 + c*10 + d*-10 + e*10 + f*1 + g*6 + h*6

where a = ease of learning, b = ease of use, c = client-side Web scripting, d = server-side Web scripting, e = popularity and installed base, f = graphics, g = readability, h = object model.

Or presented another way:

learnability: Python=10, JS=9, Perl=6, Ruby=5.
usability: Python=10, JS=9, Ruby=8, Perl=7.
client-side scripting: JS=10, all others=-10.
server-side scripting: Perl=10, Python=7, Ruby=6, JS=-10.
popularity: Perl=10, JS=10, Python=6, Ruby=1.
graphics: JS=1, all others=10.
readability: Python=10, Ruby=7, JS=6, Perl=1.
object model: Ruby=10, Python=7, JS=6, Perl=2.

Now I'm not sure I'd agree with all of these ratings (e.g. Python 10 times more readable than Perl? Seems pretty harsh...), but they're interesting to look at. They seem pretty off-the-cuff to me. Perhaps they say as much about the opinions of the Web site author as they do about the languages.

Re:Factors in choosing a scripting language

[Anonymous Coward]

They seem pretty off-the-cuff to me. Perhaps they say as much about the opinions of the Web site author as they do about the languages.

and the knowledge of the author, as a -10 for server side javascript seems to imply impossibility (as it is the same -10 for client side perl, python, ruby), but server side javascript exists and is used.

Umm ... good web design *matters*

[josephgrossberg]

Not to be rude, but there's a lot of middle ground between "a slick professional web site" and a nighmarishly ugly one.

I mean, if you're over your head in making it look halfway decent (never mind steps like accessibility, XHTML compliance and CSS) then ask for help, instead of pretending that bad design is something positive.

I mean, no one is born knowing this stuff, and I don't want to discourage you from working at it. But the site looks bad, the JavaScript apps have errors, and the heralded "The Linux Chronicles" have only been updated twice in six months. So don't oversell yourself or your site (by announcing it on Slashdot, for example).

What about /bin/sh??

[SN74S181]

I don't find a link for people who want to create highly compatible Bourne Shell scripts that don't include the creeping extend-embrace features of BASH.

Re:What about /bin/sh??

[Arandir]

Hear hear! Let's hear it for plain vanilla Bourne Shell! And I don't mean that brain damaged symlink to bash that Linux distros think they're being oh so clever with.

sh is available on every Unix and unix-clone there is, out of the box. No need to install bash before you can get some work done. No need to put Perl or Python in the base system. It's small, it's fast, it works and it is a standard.

About a year ago I spent a month converting a bunch of bash-1 scripts to plain Bourne Shell. They could have easily been written in sh to begin with, but the guy who first did them was a Linux weenie and that bash was a standard shell. Then the systems in question got upgraded, bash-1 went away, and all the maintenance scripts broke like a newlywed's bank account.

Yikes

[perlyking]

Broken scripts, broken links and much more! The perl news gathering script seems to like python more than perl. In short everything is broken.

Re:Yikes

[Anonymous Coward]

The perl news gathering script seems to like python more than perl.

It shows good taste. :-P

[-3.14159, Flamebait from Hell]

free pub

[Pooh]

from: Whois record the owner of awaretek.com is Ronald Stephens

Who submited the link? Ursus Maximus (rdsteph@earthlink.net).

Worst than dupe.

I wouldn't want to live in one of these cities...

[rollthelosindice]

They sure are ugly. U_G_L_Y....

Exactly what is the definition...

[bihoy]

Thank you for the clarification. I *was* thinking of VB and not VBA.
I just did a bit of research to try to find the definition of a scripting language.
Apparently so have a lot of other folks, as I came across the following:

The Definition os a Scripting Language

Adding it up

[The Bungi]

If I go to the scripting language chooser page and not fill any values before clicking on the "Click to score the languages suitability to you!" thing, I get a "JavaScript is the scripting language for you!" alert.

Now, what I want to know is - is that good or bad?

Re:Adding it up

[Anonymous Coward]

it's good. if you dont know what you're doing (and thus dont select any criteria) then a client side language is essential - dont screw up the server, screw up the browser! much safer that way.

Scripting - what about TCL?

[velcrokitty]

Can be extended nicely - runs on most platforms, has GUI support, has multiple OO extensions, is widely used in testing telecommunications systems.

Why is it left out?

Scripting - what about Rexx?

[belroth]

Runs on platfroms from PC (windows/linux,os/2) through as400 up to z series mainframe.
IO utilities change a bit but the core language is pretty stable and usable.
Not saying it's better than InsertScriptLanguageOfChoice but it is easy to learn, flexible and powerful. If you go ObjectRexx you get the obvious and with NetRexx you can generate Java from it , IIRC.

What about ease of embedding?

[SilentStrike]

I am looking for a scripting langauge that is easy to embed into a C++ program (Can I inherit from my C++ classes from the scripting langauge?, for instance), portable between at least Linux and Windows, and fairly cleanly designed. Does anyone have any recommendations for such a beast? I currently have a fair grasp on Python, and I have been looking into Lua as well.

Re:What about ease of embedding?

[91degrees]

I recently had a look. I decided it was a toss up between Lua and Python, depending on complexity, and who else you want to use it.

Lua is absoluetley fantastic if you just want something simple, like a programmable configuration file to call a few built in routines in a specific order, with a few ifs and an coccasional loop. Probably not for you though. It's a little too simple, and only really deals with strings and numbers.

Re:What about ease of embedding?

[rafa]

Boost.Python might be what you're looking for.

lispcity?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not Found

The requested URL /lispcity.html was not found on this server.

Apache/1.3.26 Server at www.awaretek.com Port 80

and what abt PHP

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess they missed it!