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TurboTax Activation Fiasco
kurtinatlanta writes "Though the news broke in September, no one cares about tax return preparation software until January. Apparently Intuit's activation scheme for TurboTax will only allow you to print or file your returns from the computer on which you first installed it. The phrase "one computer" in their license literally means one computer. Moving the software (i.e. disk reformat, buy new computer) requires buying it again. There are all kinds of negative reviews on amazon.com as a result. Is this problem real or overhyped?" There's a more recent story about the flap. The Intuit PR rep is quoted as saying that people can install the software on multiple computers using the same activation code, but I don't think an unworking installation really counts.
OK -
I'm finally gonna switch because of this but my big question is, which competing product would be best to go with and why?
TIA
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
I completely agree. The more negative publicity this generates, the better. Better idea: write to your local newspaper "cyber" journalist and ask them to look into what a hassle this is.
Last year I needed to file a 1040 for the first time. Usually I just go for the 1040EZ, but I had a few items I needed to use the 1040 for. Ok, whatever.
I was looking for a good e-file solution, so I found Turbotax online. For $10 you can file your 1040, no software to install, it's a secure java applet. Cool. I spent a good 45 minutes filling everything out, triple checking my numbers, submitted it, life was good.
Three weeks later, I get an envelope from the IRS.
It seems that Turbotax f#@%ed up my taxable income, and stiffed me $320 on my federal return. The IRS fixed it and sent me a check for the difference, but I was still ticked. I printed off all the info and studied it carefully. All the data I put in was right. I ran the numbers manually, and what do you know, my taxable income was lower, and when I comp[uted the tax table I found the missing $320.
F@#% YOU, TURBOTAX.
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
I sent e-mails to Intuit and Macrovision this weekend, asking how to disable/remove their spyware after I was done with TurboTax this year. Surprise, surprise; I haven't received a response.
I'm using something else next year.
It was coming up with that I would need to pay in $500 federal tax. I freaked, naturally. Went to H&R Block, they did my taxes correctly, and I ended up paying in (even after you add in the H&R Block costs) less than what TurboTax said I owed in!
Learn from me: go to a tax prep specialist and stay the hell away from do-it-yourself software solutions.
I don't care if it's character based, but it would be cool if the IRS did a tax application that was simply self-calculating and linked so the totals from worksheet forms carry over to the tax form.
I don't need FinanceChick and TaxDude giving me video advice. I just need the instructions, the forms, and a way to save while I go out back and beat up on the shed, woodpile or a bear when I get to the "Your income tax due (or your refund)" line...
$G
-- $G
I'll answer my own post: According to Intuit, the Mac version does not have product activation.
Here is a link to a forum talking about C-dilla.
Don't make the same mistake I did and delete a directory called "C:\C_DILLA". I did, and my computer froze upon startup. Apparently C-dilla is a service that requires this directory to be there otherwise it barfs on you.
I didn't know what it was, and thought it might be related to Mozilla (Mozilla, Bugzilla, Chatzilla, etc). I deleted it, and upon reboot, my system froze during startup. After troubleshooting my frozen machine for around 1/2 an hour, the missing directory turned out to be the problem, along with these mysterious services that I didn't remember installing. I guess the service hung while looking for the directory and froze my entire system.
I went to uninstall Turbotax and it doesn't uninstall C-dilla. I asked Intuit Live Chat support how to remove C-dilla and they told me to delete the C_DILLA directory and reboot. I told them what would happen, but they said that's what to do. After I did it, and it froze again, they said there was nothing they could to and to contact my system administrator/vendor to fix the freeze. Thanks.
They have a 60-day return policy. USE IT. Tell all your friends and co-workers not to buy Turbotax. I was a loyal Turbotax purchaser since 1997 and I am now going to switch because I no longer trust them. Why did they install this shit on my computer without telling me, and fuck everything up?
They have completely lost my trust, and there is nothing they can do to get it back, that's for sure.
Why do I have the feeling that a lot of these negative comments are made by a competing company? Most of the dates are Jan 4. It would be interesting to see Amazon's IP logs for all the post. I know this wouldn't be the first case of posting fake reviews (both positive and negative). No doubt many of the comments are real, it's a legit issue - but I think it's been overhyped by competition. My guess is it's someone from TaxCut.
;)
Look at this review:
------------------
Christopher R Chirdon from Pittsburgh, PA USA
I was reading reviews here when I really checked into the online activation stuff. But someone was concerned if you could import your 2001 "filename.tax" file from TurboTax 2001 into TaxCut 2002 and the answer is YES! I bought TaxCut because I want to prepare on my personal computer and then take it to work to print on my laser printer, but I don't want to have to buy 2 licenses. Also, it's just SUCH a hassle. The funny thing is, I don't think taxCut uses ANY type of authentication. I put the CD in and it never asked me for a serial or anything, just a box that said "Is this a legal copy? Y/N".
In a nutshell, if you are concerned about buying TaxCut 2002 and importing your TurboTax 2001 goo, don't be. It went right in for me, and the program seems to be every bit as good as TurboTax. It doesn't have that annoying "da dum dum, da dum da" musical intro that always bothered me either...
-- Virtual Windows Project
Someone on the amazon site mentioned that you can only use TurboTax to check for that year. That's not making much sense.
You do your taxes in 1999, so you need the 1999 version to check them. And sometimes you need to know your back taxes.
And there's a program called C-Dilla that you can't shut off that checks your registration number. Complaints were even if you remove TurboTax you still have that working.
riding round the world on an old motorcycle
I just read the Amazon complaints - of the 104 comments, a good 80 of them were posted on Jan the 4th - by what looks to be the same guy.
Sure, abuse the spyware and activation (and rightly so), but this particular spat is being hyped...
the irs returned 320 that they werent entitled to?
Lets remember, its YOUR money THEY are taking.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
Gator for example claims millions of "satisfied customers" - in my experience they have millions of victims who don't know how the crap got into their computers in the first place and no clue as to how to remove it. But I guess that's a valid "installed base".
As for C-Dilla, I don't think it's spyware (not in the classic definition anyway), but regardless of that TurboTax is no longer welcome on my computer, and I happen to be a 5 year satisfied user. There's absolutely no fucking way I'm going to live with a resident executable living in my system hooking processes to see if they are "protected". Intuit can smooch my bootay. I'm going with TaxCut for 2002.
I hope the company rents a clue from this, and I hope their sales fall through the basement and they fix it for 2003. If they do, I'll buy it again.
Supposedly, TurboTax now contains C-DILLA, which is spyware. If you search around the net, such as the aforemention fatwallet forum or amazon reviews, there are reports that CD burners don't work as well as they used to. You can't just delete the C-DILLA directory - it gets recreated or will hose your system. Installing TurboTax doesn't warn you it will be installed And uninstalling TurboTax doesn't remove it.
Yeah, the activation is annoying, and I would live with that. But I'm not getting TurboTax for this reason.
From the article:
Customers are also complaining about Safecast, the Macrovision security software Intuit uses to verify activation numbers. Reports have surfaced in discussion groups and some news sites classifying Safecast--also known as C-Dilla for the company that provided the technology to Macrovision--as "spyware," programs surreptitiously installed on a PC that track and report how the PC is used. Spyware programs such as Gator and Brilliant Digital have prompted growing concern among PC users.
Moderation rears its ugly head again, I see you got an offtopic slap.
Anyway, think of why this happens. Especially in a story like this, Slashdot (or the OSDN keiretsu) could be fully taken to court by Intuit because of misrepresentation of facts and loss of business related to that. Don't know the exact legal term, but I'd think it's somewhat akin to slander. Never mind that it doesn't really matter - TurboTax and the whole activation thing sucks. But it's different if it's plastered all over the front page for half a million people to see.
Ergo, the "editorial byline" is fixed with alacrity. Very convenient.
Hmmm. What's that I see in the distance? An offtopic bitchslap on this thread? Could it be? Yes!!
That said, I know because I asked that the preparers have to go through a several week course, and pass a final test with at least 80-85% competency or they wash out of the program.
I think my experience trumps yours here. I took the H&R Block course. There were quite a few incompetent people taking it with me. And not a single one of them failed.
Some are also trained as Financial Advisors or Loan Advisors for Block subsidiaries, so they can sometimes point out methods of saving additional tax $ based on good investments, mortgage refinancing, etc..
And the vast majority aren't, and are specifically informed that they "are not auditors" and therefore are not supposed to advise their clients on any tax issues. They are merely supposed to ask the proper questions (which appear on their computer screen) and type them into the computer.
As for their offer to check past returns, you should realize that the people doing that checking essentially aren't getting paid by H&R Block to do it. See there is a minimal hourly salary, but it is drawn against a commission structure. All but the most incompetent employees earn more off commissions, so they aren't paid anything when there aren't any customers, so Block gives them some busy work during the slow hours checking other people's returns.
Obviously if you double check a lot of returns, you're going to come up with a lot of mistakes. I've come up with thousand dollar mistakes checking H&R Block returns from previous years, so it's not like H&R Block is special there.
Those who can do. Those who can't work for H&R Block.
Main thing for me as a small consulting company owner is that you know you're not dealing with an Enron-esque company -- their ethics and credibility are top notch.
Ha! H&R Block has been sued over and over again by the IRS for ripping off their customers. And that's just things that the company itself was responsible for. The employees pull even bigger scams.
> so the useage lifetime for the software is as long as it takes me to actually do my taxes
That would be the usage lifetime of the software _for you_. I on the other hand, have for several years now, done taxes at my house, printed them, mailed them, uninstalled the software and given the software to my daughter and her husband to do their taxes. With anything other than this bizarre assed license this would be perfectly legal as my ownership of the software would allow me to either resell or give away what I own after I'm done using it (as long as I don't try to keep a copy).
I can do that with a book, DVD, magazine, CD, VHS tape, audio cassette, etc. but not TurboTax. Uh huh...
Secondly, I'll make another but different example. I gave my wife a new adventure game (Syberia) for Christmas. She started playing it shortly after Christmas, played it constantly and beat it within a few days. She then immediately turned around and put the game onto Half.com for sale and sold it for 2/3rds of the price I paid to buy it in the first place. Thus getting about 20 or so hours of enjoyment out of the game for approximately $10.
Had that game only been _licensed_ to her though, she wouldn't have been able to resell the game even though she was totally done with it.
Sigs are for people who started using the net _after_ '86.
Wow, I've gotten quite a few responses to this post. Good points, all.
A little research also revealed that the company they are using for the registration piece is known to involve spyware in their software.
All of this is sufficient to make me start looking for another tax software solution.
Sorry Susano, but I shouldn't have to "slashdot them with complaints" to get good service.
/. friends to harass them to get this stuff fixed...
I should be able to shut off the ads in quickbooks.
I shouldn't have to pay $75 for technical service that I never recieved.
I shouldn't have to pay $149 a year for tax tables when the gross margin must be 98%.
I shouldn't have to call and explain to them who I am to reinstall my 1999 tax software
If I have to call them, they should be open 24/7 not just when it's convenient for them.
Just the ads in quickbooks alone are reeediculous. I generate an invoice, intuit wants to sell me a service to check if the customer will pay. I write a check, they want to sell me checks. I quit quickbooks, they want to sell me back-up services.
I shouldn't have to get 200K of my closest
They aren't devoted to customer satisfaction, they are devoted to squeezing the absolute most they can out of their customers. I think just a few google searches will be enough to demonstrate that they have squeezed too hard and will therefore, like they have with me and many others in on this article, lose business due to an almost complete disinterest in customer satisfaction.
Oh, and I've written them about all of these issues. Not even the courtesy of a reply. They couldn't be bothered to lift a pen, much less fix the issue. Customer service indeed.
I've been trying to post this "review" to Amazon for a couple of days, but there seems to be something wrong with their comment posting code. So here's MY experience with TurboTax 2002
[amazon posting starts here]
I won't reiterate many of the points made by other reviewers on amazon -- I'll just summarize the reviews as "good software, but the copy protection sucks".
I had the copy protection suck more than most. I dual boot WindowsXP and Linux, using the "GRUB" bootloader (which is currently used now by, among others, RedHat linux), and installing TurboTax 2002 made my entire computer unbootable! The activation code writes some information to the front of the harddrive (before the first partition), which overwrote my bootloader, which was already living there! (This may happen with other bootloaders as well... I've only tested with the one).
And fixing my system so it would boot again (by reinstalling the bootloader) produced a copy of TurboTax that a) thought it wasn't activated, and b) Thought that my productid had already been used "by another computer", so couldn't be re-activated.
Intuit did eventually give me another product ID that worked, after I spent several hours trying to explain the problem to tech support, and rebooting time and time again as the reps had me uninstall, reinstall, install in safe mode, install while standing on my head...
The software itself is OK (Though I still wish it could import from Quicken based on the "class" of the transactions), but I have the strong opinion that installing tax software should not render my computer unbootable!
Of course, from this particular editor this sort of thing has come to be expected. Michael-baiting has developed as a reaction to this. It is a mark of honor of sorts to be modded down while pointed out what a terrible editor he is.
Yes, I saw the story as it was originally posted and it did change. Of course in a situation like this where the change is because an editor shot his mouth off rather than an actual update to the story I can see why this happened. What would they post as an update? "Sorry, an editor went a little too far here, please ignore the previous sentence." That wouldn't work too well. What they need to do is be more careful in the first place. And fire someone in addition to Katz.
Lasers Controlled Games!
I keep my hard copies, so I keep the software that I used to prepare the hard copies installed. TurboTax is a relatively small program (if you don't let it install Quicken).
The plus side to leaving it installed is, you can drag in the previous year's tax return info. Security risk? Maybe, if you consider leaving that kind of thing on your machine a risk. I have the luxury of a third PC that I don't normally boot up or have tied into my network.
OK. Now that I've explained that, let's get to the "one PC vs. many" issue. At first, when I read this year's license agreement, I kind of liked it; silly me. My first impression was this: I can install it on the machine where I'm going to do the "real job" first, then I can put it on another so I can jerk around with it without mucking up my actual tax return. Just to get an idea of how I want to approach this year's return, you know? Not a bad idea, actually. It wasn't until I read this Slashdot article that I realized that a crash on my "real job" machine might cause a problem. Now, we're only talking about $39.95, against a couple thou I'm getting back (well, the ex is getting it; I won't see it, that's another story) but it does seem like I might have some recourse through Customer Service at Intuit. Forty bucks is not a big deal to me, fortunately, but I'd rather not pay it if I don't have to. The point is that I would not just run down to CompUSA or Best Buy for a second copy (or a different program entirely) on the authority of a license agreement without first going up the chain of command at Intuit.
By the way, the impression I'm getting from some of the earlier posts is that people think you can't run TurboTax after the year it's designed for. I haven't had that problem, but I can only speak for myself.
Jay
"A generation which ignores history has no past and no future." -- Robert Heinlein
If you check Microsoft's website about product activations, it says that when they stop supporting XP activation, they will release a patch to disable it.