Rendezvous For Apache

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Posted by pudge on Thursday January 9, 2003 @10:30PM from the next-up-is-zeroclick dept.

sapporo writes "Eric Christopher Seidel has released mod_rendezvous. The DSO lets the Apache that comes with Mac OS X advertise its services on the local network via Rendezvous, so it will show up in Safari's Rendezvous Bookmarks section. This lets you browse all web servers on the local network very conveniently. Nice one!" I wonder, could it work on Linux too? I would think so ...

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Re:interesting... by byolinux · 2003-01-10 00:01 · Score: 4, Interesting

Rendezvous is extremely cool tech.

For a really successful Apple topic on slashdot it needs to be...

a) something that's big in Open Source/Free software anyway like OpenOffice for Mac
b) rumour/lies
c) Apple hardware announcment

Which is a shame, because the Mac platform is really the only innovation I can see in the computing world right now. Take the Safari browser for example, David Hyatt is actually responding to other people's blogs about Safari and actually taking notice. No other company is doing things to this level of service.

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Very nice idea by Matthias+Wiesmann · 2003-01-10 00:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

I was also suprised that Apple did not activate this for personal web sharing. It is nice that somebody corrected it. This said, in my case, the hack does not work correctly: it seems the advertised local address has a period after the .local domain, so the browser can't find the actual web server.
I really hope that rendez-vous technologies get ported to other Unixes soon. For instance, multicast DNS is really nice in LANs where IP addresses are assigned via DHCP. You can simply type something like ssh server.local and it works. When you use laptops, it is really a killer feature.
1. Re:Very nice idea by pudge · 2003-01-10 01:42 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  I really hope that rendez-vous technologies get ported to other Unixes soon.
  
  You mean like mDNSResponder?
  cd Rendezvous/mDNSPosix make os=linux
  w00p, indeed.
2. Re:Very nice idea by Matthias+Wiesmann · 2003-01-10 01:54 · Score: 1
  
  I meant ported and adopted...
  That's the problem with networking technologies, adoption is important.
3. Re:Very nice idea by chmouel · 2003-01-10 02:13 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  At MandrakeSoft we currently working on it.
4. Re:Very nice idea by Znonymous+Coward · 2003-01-10 04:14 · Score: 2
  
  Not a troll.
  
  Mandrake really needs to have a grammar expert come in and tutor everyone. Then, they need to review the text in everything Mandrake has ever published (manuals, distros, websites, etc). It's hard to accept Mandrake as a mainstream product when "All you base are belong to we Mandrake".
  
  --
  Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.
5. Re:Very nice idea by cyb97 · 2003-01-10 04:39 · Score: 0
  
  Why replace an existing feature (though this requires dhcp, which I'm not sure mdns does)...
  dynamicdns-updates is supported by most dhcp-clients today...
  Give me a ddns-setup every day ;-)!
6. Re:Very nice idea by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · 2003-01-10 04:52 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Thou shalt get thee to Apple's Rendezvous developer page immediately and readeth up on it, for thou doest knoweth not of why thou speaketh.
  
  --
  
  I write in my journal
7. Re:Very nice idea by g4dget · 2003-01-10 05:19 · Score: 2
  
  Until ZeroConf clients are pre-installed on Linux and easily installed on Windows, people won't have much motivation for installing this on the server. After all, what's the point of using ZeroConf if the first thing you need to do is install and configure a piece of software on the server and every client?
  Last I looked, Apple's license on this also made it unclear whether Linux distributions would pick it up. So, widespread deployment may have to wait until GPL or BSD implementations.
8. Re:Very nice idea by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-10 05:30 · Score: 0
  
  How do you have time? Don't you spend most of your time begging for money?
9. Re:Very nice idea by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-10 06:23 · Score: 0
  
  You hell go to!
10. Re:Very nice idea by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-10 06:24 · Score: 0
  
  Damed rifle droppers.
11. Re:Very nice idea by chmouel · 2003-01-12 04:43 · Score: 1
  
  Never heard about the word professionalism ?
Re:interesting... by pudge · 2003-01-10 01:34 · Score: 2

Um, it isn't "on the front page." You have selected "Collapse Sections" in your preferences, which puts section-only stories on the front page. If I had a dime for every time people complained about this sort of thing, I'd have ... oh, a few bucks.
no problem by djupedal · 2003-01-10 02:11 · Score: 2

works ok for me...ran the installer, restarted apache via webmin and bingo...

You might want to check your apache conf file?
Works great... by djupedal · 2003-01-10 02:13 · Score: 3, Informative

download...unpack...run....restart apache...done
1. Re:Works great... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-10 22:24 · Score: 0
  
  There's no step 5. There's no step 5!
Not really open sourced by gr84b8 · 2003-01-10 02:27 · Score: 1

Ummm,
I'm a bit disappointed that:
1) the code has not been made available (although the author claims he will send it to you if you send him an email)
2) no apache 2.0 support (though he claims it is coming).

I'm tempted to rewrite it to support both 1.3 and 2.0 and open source it.
1. Re:Not really open sourced by entrylevel · 2003-01-10 02:47 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  When I went to the site (2 days ago), there was a note that said 'If you want the source, e-mail me and I'll send it to you.' Perhaps he didn't think too many people would be interested, or has limited webspace.
  
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2. Re:Not really open sourced by vikingstad · 2003-01-11 11:17 · Score: 1
  
  Please go to the site now. The source code is available at!
  
  http://homepage.mac.com/macdomeeu/dev/current/mo d_ rendezvous/
  
  http://homepage.mac.com/macdomeeu/dev/current/mo d_ rendezvous/mod_rendezvous%20source.tar.gz
Rendezvous info by pcp_ip · 2003-01-10 04:29 · Score: 1

Is there any technical info on Rendezvous? Does it not broadcast across subnets? I've added mod_rendezvous to 2 macs on different subnets of my network and they can't be seen...
1. Re:Rendezvous info by P.+Niss · 2003-01-10 04:48 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Answer to question 1: Yes
  
  Answer to question 2: No. From the Apple Developer Rendezvous FAQ:
  
  Q: Does Rendezvous work across routers (between multiple subnets)?
  
  A: No. The first release of DNS Service Discovery (DNS-SD) for Mac OS X concentrates on Multicast DNS (mDNS) for single-link networks because this is the environment worst served by current IP software. Future versions will add Dynamic Update and unicast query support.
  
  Multicast DNS is intended for use on small networks with no infrastructure support, and intentionally uses link-local multicast. If a network has two links then it needs a bridge or router to connect those links, so by definition you now have a box that is (or should be) capable of providing some level of infrastructure support.
  
  It is important to understand that DNS-SD is orthogonal to mDNS. You can use one without the other. In the example given above, the router that is connecting the two links should also include a DHCP server to assign addresses, and a little mini-DNS server which handles both standard DNS queries and Dynamic DNS Updates [RFC 3007]. The devices offering services on that network then advertise their services by using Dynamic Update to register their service records with the mini-DNS server in the router, and clients looking for services use normal unicast DNS queries addressed to that server to retrieve those service records.
2. Re:Rendezvous info by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · 2003-01-10 04:49 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Is there any technical info on Rendezvous?
  
  There is tons of technical info on Rendezvous. Google for it, or look at the canonical source. (You can also download source from there.)
  
  Does it not broadcast across subnets?
  
  This is a FAQ:
  Q: Does Rendezvous work across routers (between multiple subnets)?
  
  A: No. The first release of DNS Service Discovery (DNS-SD) for Mac OS X concentrates on Multicast DNS (mDNS) for single-link networks because this is the environment worst served by current IP software. Future versions will add Dynamic Update and unicast query support.
  
  Multicast DNS is intended for use on small networks with no infrastructure support, and intentionally uses link-local multicast. If a network has two links then it needs a bridge or router to connect those links, so by definition you now have a box that is (or should be) capable of providing some level of infrastructure support.
  
  It is important to understand that DNS-SD is orthogonal to mDNS. You can use one without the other. In the example given above, the router that is connecting the two links should also include a DHCP server to assign addresses, and a little mini-DNS server which handles both standard DNS queries and Dynamic DNS Updates [RFC 3007]. The devices offering services on that network then advertise their services by using Dynamic Update to register their service records with the mini-DNS server in the router, and clients looking for services use normal unicast DNS queries addressed to that server to retrieve those service records.
  
  --
  
  I write in my journal
3. Re:Rendezvous info by P.+Niss · 2003-01-10 07:38 · Score: 0, Offtopic
  
  Shit, a minute earlier, and I still miss out on the mod points? Well, at least as of right now, I haven't gotten (-1 Redundant). Yet.
4. Re:Rendezvous info by kwerle · 2003-01-10 09:39 · Score: 2
  
  Great response.
  
  It seems to me, though, that you could set up an mDNS entry for other subnets now using commandline tools.
Re:interesting... by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · 2003-01-10 04:41 · Score: 5, Insightful

Take the Safari browser for example, David Hyatt is actually responding to other people's blogs about Safari and actually taking notice.

If by "actually taking notice" you mean "fixing reported bugs left and right," you're right. Hyatt's team is doing some incredible stuff. They're just chewing through bug reports.

I've emailed David asking if they plan to put WebCore and JavaScriptCore on the public CVS server so we can test newer builds. No answer yet, but I'll bet I get a "yes" back soon.

--

I write in my journal
Yes, really open sourced! by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · 2003-01-10 04:44 · Score: 4, Informative

the code has not been made available (although the author claims he will send it to you if you send him an email)

You know that the GPL itself requires nothing more, right? A program does not have to have its source code up on a server for it to be open source. Under the GPL, it merely has to come with a written offer to provide the source at no charge or a nominal charge. Eric's following the letter of that rule, even though he's not using the GPL. Good for him, I say.

Why don't you send him an email and see what you get back?

--

I write in my journal
1. Re:Yes, really open sourced! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-10 09:12 · Score: 0
  
  Eric's following the letter of that rule, even though he's not using the GPL. Good for him, I say.
  
  What does the GPL have to do with it?
  
  What license is his code under, can I re-distribute it? I guess I'll email and find out!
Not the same thing by Matthias+Wiesmann · 2003-01-10 05:08 · Score: 3, Insightful

While the basic functionality is similar, both approaches are quite different and quite complimentary. Dynamic DNS makes sense for servers that need to be reachable from the whole internet.
Dynamic DNS makes little sense if somebody plugs-in a laptop in a LAN. You don't want to update your DNS data to include a laptop that might stay connected for a few minutes! There are also administrative issues: DNS updates will certainly not be allowed for arbitrary machines or arbitrary DNS names.

Multicast DNS solves this problem nicely and even works when you don't have a server. So if a friend plugs a laptop in your home network you can address his machine using a logical name.

Different problems, different solutions...
Re:shux shux fork fork fork by kolombangara · 2003-01-10 06:17 · Score: 1

Happens to me all the time. I quit trying.
Great - For Safari... by kwerle · 2003-01-10 09:53 · Score: 2

What I don't understand is why there is still no plugin for OmniWeb to do the same thing (or have I missed it?). Not to mention the various Navigator/Chimera spinoffs.
1. Re:Great - For Safari... by marmoset · 2003-01-10 10:57 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Chimera nightlies support browsing to Rendezvous sites. I can't remember whether or not it's turned on by default, though.
2. Re:Great - For Safari... by kwerle · 2003-01-10 11:29 · Score: 2
  
  Good news - thanks for the tip.
  
  I'm very much looking forward to their next release (I don't care to do the nightly dance).
Re:interesting... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-10 13:28 · Score: 0

And there's no way of knowing that one selected "Collapse Sections" short of sifting through the enourmous preferences page.
sssfff by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-10 20:07 · Score: 0

You see, there's this thing called a 'good ol boys network', where only a select team of butt scratchers gets together and decides what laundry to hang out. They frequently take your stories and put them in under made up names, just so you won't get a big head over it and think you should be allowed to join the clan.

As soon as suckers stop feeding this little incestuous clam back, things might steer back from the edge...but I wouldn't be holding any bets for that to happen any time soon.
OT: .signature by cant_get_a_good_nick · 2003-01-11 16:59 · Score: 2

In Soviet Russia, all your base are belong to Natalie Portman's Beowulf cluster of hot grits for Profit! cuz BSD is dead

No goatse.cx guy? No Ogg the Caveman? No Haiku guy? .sig of trolls slacker...
Rendezvous "catch up' technology to old AppleTalk? by cant_get_a_good_nick · 2003-01-11 17:14 · Score: 2

Oddly enough rendezvous reminds me a little of catch up technology, catch up to what AppleTalk used to give you. For those who never used it, AppleTalk used a name based protocol, with only one well-known port. When you opened something in the Chooser, it would send out a broadcast on the local net on that well-known port, telling the device what DeviceType it was looking for. If the DeviceType matched, it would respond with it's DeviceName, and they'd show up the the Chooser. Rendezvous seems to be trying to catch up TCP/IP to the old easy-to-find AppleTalk tech.
rendezvous and printing by willigis · 2003-01-13 11:50 · Score: 1

I am not a programmer, but like many users, have a homeoffice network which mixes pcs and macs. Printing from macs to non pcl network printers is still a pain (Dave is not up to it). Should we expect rendez vous / apache to bridge this cumbersome canyon? Thanks
1. Re:rendezvous and printing by jericho4.0 · 2003-01-19 14:19 · Score: 1
  
  Rendezvous holds some great promise in making SOHO networks a snap to set up. Apache (being a web server) isn't going to have anything to do with it. It really depends on how fully the rest of the industry accepts rendezvous, but that looks like a pretty sure bet.
  I expect Apple will soon deliver a nice easy solution to your problem.
  
  --
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