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High-Speed Multimedia Hamming

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the dit-da-dit-dit-dit dept.

Skuld-Chan writes "I noticed a few days ago that the ARRL (Amateur Radio Relay League) formed a working group to promote use of 802.11 protocols on the amateur radio bands."

12 of 206 comments (clear)

  1. This is bad news by luckybob83 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you read the whole article you will find that they actually want to boot the unlicensced people out and get it all for the licensed HAM operators. This is bad for all the WISPs out there, and then also there go my plans.

    --
    If there is nothing left worth living, what are you willing to die for?
    1. Re:This is bad news by GlassUser · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I really don't care for the whole WISP idea. I don't believe that it's proper to be using public resources for personal (or even worse, corporate) profit. If the WISPs want to have a for-pay service, then they can participate in the band auctions just like the TV stations and cellular carriers.

      --
      funny munging
    2. Re:This is bad news by Mr2cents · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Erm.. I don't get your point. wat is 'it'?? You always need a ham licence to access ham networks, it's logical since your actions activate transponders that require a ham license.
      Ham's are allowed to use 2.4Gh, but so are you (you just have to use licenced transmitters, hams can build them theirselves).

      --
      "It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
    3. Re:This is bad news by Nate+B. · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, for the several channels of 802.11b that utilize the Amateur Radio Service allocation in the 2.4 GHz region at least, the users of those Part 15 devices must accept all interference from licensed service operations and not cause harmful interference to those same licensed users. This is long-standing FCC rule policy in the U.S.A.

      For several years we Amateur Radio Operators have lived with the spectre of manunfacturers dumping all sorts of product onto the market obstensibly operating under Part 15, but causing all sorts of problems to licensed users. Of course, the manufacturers conveniently forget to inform their customers of the pitfalls of relying on a Part 15 device. So, when a licensed user's operation is harmful to the device, the customer naturally holds them to blame as a result of ignorance. Slowly the noise floor (a measure of how weak a signal one can receive from a distant station) has increased, so we hams are naturally, looking to get *our* spectrum back.

      The WISPs should be required to operate in a properly licensed and allocated Service, IMO. Part 15 devices are intended to be small operations that cover a house, small business, etc. NOT as a wireless urban LAN. AFAIAC, WISPs should be considered in the same way as cellular providers.

      --

      "Insanity is doing the same thing over again expecting a different result."
    4. Re:This is bad news by general_boy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're right about the hams but practically speaking, it's little or nothing to worry about.

      Hams are growingly concerned about their spectrum getting usurped (and rightfully so, it has happened before and the ARRL is constantly fending off new threats). Part of that sentiment has an outlet via reminders to spectrum users lower on the 'totem pole' that hams have higher status.

      IIRC, the 2.4 GHz ham band extends from 2390 to 2450 MHz. (They used to have 2300-2310 or so too, but it's gone.) However, the FCC Part 15-247 unlicensed band extends from 2400 to 2483.5 MHz. This means that the upper 5 or so 802.11b channels are out of the way of hams that might be operating in their licensed band. High power ham radios in that 2390-2450 slot *shouldn't* be emitting much energy outside it, but even a little can cause interference to 802.11b radios operating above 2450. Summary: almost half the unlicensed 2.4 band the hams cannot touch but that doesn't mean there would be no problems.

      There are also strict rules on how hams can use their spectrum. A *LOT* of what unlicensed users can do in the way of data transfer (almost anything goes) is prohibited for hams. Anything that facilitates a business is out. Another big one is the issue of unlicensed operators causing emissions of a ham radio (they basically cannot). The regs are a bit vague but that's the gist of it. The result is that the only legally 'safe' manner in which to operate is to talk only to other hams over such a licensed link.

      I am a licensed ham - have been since I was 9 years old, yet feel sad when I read the article. It used to be hams were on the forefront of developing new radio technologies (indeed, that's one of the tenets of the amateur radio charter - furtherance of the radio art) but here I see them (us) glomming onto technology mostly developed in the commercial sector, and threatening to push unlicensed users out. Hams still have a boatload of frequencies available, especially in the microwave regions. However, most of us don't want to take the time to design new radios. You get the picture.

      Even though I could legally use an 802.11b radio at high power, etc., I'd rather operate unlicensed and not be subject to restrictions on what traffic passes over a link. My Internet connection at home is via an 802.11b-based provider.

      'nuff said.

  2. Amateur Radio needs to reinvent itself by ramas · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I have been an amateur for 11 years now ON and OFF mainly because communication by itself (even the kind of communication that wireless offers!) is now ubiquitous with the arrival of the WWW, cell phones and sat. phones and so on. However, I believe that wireless has its own space and needs to reinvent itself. 802.11 is a great opportunity to bring out the spirit of amateur radio which is more about experimentation and exploration of our environment than just about those rock solid 59+ 40db signals from your cell phone.

    lets hope that this effort provides a new lease of life to the now ailing (in terms of activity and numbers) hobby.

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    - ramas opines !!
  3. 'regular' 802.11 networks in danger? by hcdejong · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A radio amateur with an 802.11 transmitter could easily jam the low-power, shitty-antenna transceivers used in 802.11 networks. Only a few channels (up to 14) have been defined for 802.11 use, and it only works because transmitters have limited range. Change that, and you've got instant DOS.

  4. Re:I was wondering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Remember part of the FCC rules for hams state that no-encryption shall be used. I dont know about you, but I dont like broadcasting my internet traffic over the air without encryption.

  5. Re:Why ham? by oldave · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Recent examples... when the federal building in Oklahoma City was bombed, the public switched telephone network (including cell phones) was overloaded in minutes. Ham radio was the only reliable method of communication.

    On 9/11/2001 in NYC, within moments, the public switched telephone network was overloaded. Ham radio was the only reliable method of communication.

    In areas hit by natural disasters such as hurricanes, ham radio is often the only method of communication that works.

    You see, ham radio operates on many frequencies, from local, line-of-sight to world-wide reach. In times of emergency, when other methods of communication fail, ham radio operators are there, with their batteries, radios and sometimes jury-rigged antennas to get word out about what may be needed in the area, also information regarding the health and welfare of others.

  6. What's the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I am a licensed ham, but I cannot help wonder what this should be good for. 802.11 is designed for LANs, and I would expect that it doesn't work well over larger distances (just think of latency times).

    For local use, 802.11 is available to everyone without a license, and hams are allowed to use it like everyone else. If you do it within the amateur radio service, it is subject to pretty stringent regulations - no encryption, no offensive/indecent communications, access only for licensed hams, no communications associated with any kind of business or pecuniary interest (and this is interpreted _very_ strictly); if the communications span a border to another country, even more stringent restrictions apply (no "third party communications" unless there's a bilateral treaty, only "messages of a superficial nature").

    Amateur radio isn't meant to, nor does it work as a free (as in beer) alternative to cell phones, internet, whatsoever. Emulating something within the constraints of amateur radio that is available in a more useful form to the general public anyway is bound to fail. Packet radio activity seems to have died out in many regions, simply because Internet access is so much easier, faster, more versatile, and nowadays more easily accessible. If I want to transmit "multimedia" content (whatever that buzzword may mean), I can do so online.

    I'd really like to experiment with new modes, and that's difficult enough (the regulations on spread spectrum communications are EXTREMELY strict, since the FCC has to be able to monitor your communications). Going through that hassle may be worth if you're experimenting with something new. Carrying 802.11 over to amateur radio is to me neither innovative nor interesting.

  7. Important things to remember by Uhh_Duh · · Score: 5, Insightful


    I've been a licensed HAM radio operator for about 11 years now (I got my license back in the days when you had to know morse code)!

    Anyway.. HAM operators aren't just a bunch of radio cowboys out there with expensive high-powered gear. The HAM test itself makes sure that people understand a significant amount of theory before they're allowed to use that gear. In addition, while the laws are very flexible in part 97, they also have some interesting wording. For example, what's the maximum amount of power you're allowed to use in any given band? Answer: "The minimum needed to establish reliable communications". My observations of the HAM community are that these are polite, responsible people and I don't think you need to worry about anyone intentionally causing interfernce to your Wi-Fi network. In situations where HAM's need long-distance high-power signals, they often switch to directional beam antennas so as not to interfere with anyone. If anything, they're going to want to help improve the 802.11b spectrum.

    No reason for anyone to get their panties in a wad. This is a GOOD thing for the WiFi community as you're going to start seeing some very unique and innovative uses for the spectrum -- you're also going to see a very large community with the ear of the FCC fighting to improve WiFi in general.

    --
    -- People who hate Windows use Linux. People who love UNIX use BSD.
  8. Hams are not trying to boot part 15 users. by Wireless_Monkey · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You need to re-read the article because it says nothing of the sort. The hams are trying to get primary access to I believe 2mhz of the band, which is next to nothing, and in any case, has nothing to do with their 802.11b efforts (it is for narrowband satellites). By and large, what they (The HSMM) is GOOD NEWS for part 15 hackers, who are now operating in a gray area. They (the part 15 hackers) have much in common with the roots of ham radio. I think this is a very good thing. And it is not much of a problem for a real WISP, because the population density is so small in the rural areas a real WISP would operate in. The only time a part 15 user has to defer to a ham is if they cause interfernce to communications on a ongoing base, and the times this has happened can be counted on one hand. The sky is not falling.