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The End of the Free PCI Device List (Update)

Posted by chrisd on from the please-don't-buy-our-hardware dept.

imann writes "For many years, Jim Boemler was the maintainer of a free PCI device table which reference all the PCI ID's of PCI Devices. This service is used by Free Operating Systems for keeping up to date their pci device list. That was a very usefull service for us (i was working in a Linux distro in the hardware suport team). It was wonderfull until the PCI-SIG had their lawyers cease and desisted him to stop this service because of the use of the PCI logo AND name ! You don't have the right to use the three letters P,C,I ! Incredible... So he was forced to close his website. This is a incredible loss for the hardware support in the Free Software world. I hope PCI-SIG will change its position ! Please support Jim." A friend emailed me to point out that many /.ers have been emailing the wrong person to complain....read on for details... Jamal wrote, "The story you posted is causing us a headache. Our CTO, Alan Deikman is being bombarded by emails from people reading that story. Alan is not the person in charge of the PCI SIG, his only sin is that Znyx did host the PCI sig in the early 90s and he was the list maintainer. This was a gracious act and should not be rewarded the way it is now. Infact he is trying to help the gent with that website to see if things get resolved." Alan's email was posted on the page we linked to, erroneously.

14 of 635 comments (clear)

  1. I mean, c'mon now, really by Mr.+Grimm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Don't they have anything else better to do than close down an extrememly helpful website because it has three letters on there?

    1. Re:I mean, c'mon now, really by GreyPoopon · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I guess not, especially when there is money to be made.

      They aren't asking for any money. In fact, this is one of the most amicable cease and desist letters I've seen. The letter didn't state anything about the information. They were merely defending their trademark. The letter basically offers two valid options. They can either try to come to an agreement to post this information on the legitimate PCI site, or they can remove all "confusing" references to PCI-SIG. Basically, the company just doesn't want its customers to think this is a site that they sanctioned. What am I missing here?

      --

      GreyPoopon
      --
      Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?

    2. Re:I mean, c'mon now, really by bear_phillips · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They could easily have defended their trademark by just giving him permission to use it. Or they could have just called him on the phone. The problem is they sent a shot across his bow by calling an attorney.

      What your missing here, is the guy is upset because he has done a service that has helped PCI. When they had a problem with him, instead of just giving him a call on the phone, they send in the lawyers.

      --
      http://www.windmeadow.com/
  2. What's the problem? by evilviper · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Remove the logo, and change the names to ``Computer Accessory Cards" or something else not copyrighted.

    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    1. Re:What's the problem? by boinger · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Because it still supports them.

      His work helped guide people to use PCI. He spent thousands of dollars out of his own pocket for the love of a product. The owners of that product thanked him for 6 years of work by kicking him in the nuts.

      So, maybe you like taking it over a barrel like that, but he doesn't (nor would I).

      --
      Send your friends messages of love at fuck-you.org
    2. Re:What's the problem? by Squirrel+Killer · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Because it still supports them.
      Well, given that this is /., I'll forgive you that you didn't read the C&D letter. PCI-SIG's beef with Jim's site is that his "...use of PCI-SIG's trademarked name and logo on [his] website is likely to cause confusion in the marketplace..." All they ask is that he stops using the name PCI, the logo, and similar designations. Nowhere does PCI ask that he discontinue the service. Indeed, they even suggest the possibility of continuing the service as-is through his employer (IBM) which is a partner in the PCI-SIG. So instead of playing nicely and continuing the service changed only so that he's not using someone else's trademark, Mr. Boemler goes off on a little profanity-laced tirade. Talk about taking the ball home with you...

      -sk

    3. Re:What's the problem? by bradm · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Well, given that this is /., I'll forgive you that you didn't read the C&D letter. PCI-SIG's beef with Jim's site is that his "...use of PCI-SIG's trademarked name and logo on [his] website is likely to cause confusion in the marketplace..." All they ask is that he stops using the name PCI, the logo, and similar designations.


      Well, given that I did read the letter and the site:


      Jim's beef with the PCI-SIG is that they didn't have the courtesy to contact him before resorting to lawyers. I think that's reasonable. Perhaps instead of responding to your post, I should hire someone to knock on your door tomorrow morning at 5:30am and scream "Your post was ignorant!". See the difference?


      In any case, after ignoring his prior offers of assistance and insulting him, the PCI-SIG needs to offer to buy the list from him, say for about the amount of money he's spent hosting it all these years.

    4. Re:What's the problem? by SnapShot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm afraid I have to disagree...

      Senario 1: Hi Mr. Web Site Maintainer. We here at Fantasy PCI-SIG need to protect our copyright. Please remove your logo since it may cause confusion in the marketplace. This is a purely legal decision because we both know that the "marketplace" knows the difference between your database and our product, but, unfortunatly the lawyers made us do it. We apologize for the inconvienece and please keep up your good work.

      Senario 2: Yo. We will sue you. You mean nothing to us. Our lawyers are fed on the blood of babies and will leave you and your family destitute. We know where you live. We know where you work. When we are through with you your parents won't recognize your corpse.

      What was described was senario 2. Maybe I have a thin skin, I'd "take the ball home with me" as well if faced with that kind of letter. This is another case of attacking with lawyers when a little bit of respect would have achieved a far better end.

      --
      Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
  3. 'Open Standard' closed by lawyers... by azaroth42 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    From the C&D letter:
    PCI-SIG is the industry organization that owns and manages PCI specifications as open industry standards.


    Yeah, really 'open standard' when they Cease and Desist people compiling a list of device IDs!

    --Azaroth
  4. Call a lawyer by victim · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Oh for pete's sake. Don't have a tizzy.

    Check with a lawyer first, but it probably just comes down to.
    • Get rid of the logo. You do not have permission to use it and do not need it.
    • Continue to use the word "PCI" but note that it is a trademark of the PCI-SIG.
  5. They invited him to continue his website by MyNameIsFred · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Before everyone gets worked up, read the letter.
    Your website indicates that you are an employee of IBM, a PCI-SIG member. We therefore request that you work through IBM to investigate the possibility of creating a similar database of PCI Vendor ID numbers which would be available on the official PCI-SIG website
    If they were trying to destroy him, they wouldn't have made this offer. In fact, it seems to have some pluses to it. For example, he'll no longer have to host a website, pay for bandwidth, etc.
    1. Re:They invited him to continue his website by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Right intent, very wrong presentation.

      Imagine if an IBM exec called him up, and invited him into his office. The exec then thanks him for his hard work on the site, and says that the PCI-SIG is interested in interested in turning it into an official site of the organization, and is willing to pay him $25,000 to take ownership of the site, promises to give the site a good home on servers that they'll pay for. If he accepts, IBM will offer to maintain the site for the PCI-SIG, and his job responsiblities will be changed so that he'll still be the editor of the site, but now on it'd be on company time with access to IBM's PR and legal resources to help him.

      Just treat people with a little respect, and they're more likely to do what you want. Give the money that you're spending on the lawyer to write the C&D to the guy who actually did all the work, and they'd have exactly what they wanted. Instead, he took the C&D at face value and ceased and desisted. Talk about wrong tool for the job...

  6. Re:We need to tell PCI-SIG by sjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I read the letter. There's a difference between what they say and what their actions indicate. It's a little like firing an olive branch at someone from a cannon (at close range).

    People who really want to resolve a situation amicably do NOT follow that statement with a threat. If they had wanted to handle the situation amicably, the letter should have come from a director. It should have indicated their interest in hosting the list in an official capacity and asked (not demanded) that he contact them. Acknowledging the value of the list and his work would be a nice touch. Odds are, that would have been enough.

    If they had real problems with his use of the marks, they could have indicated the problem and suggested appropriate ways to remedy the situation (such as please remove the actual logo and add text saying 'PCI is a blah blah blah'). I'll bet that would have been enough as well.

    Frankly, every C&D letter I've seen (both reasonable and not so reasonable) was quite rude. They allways read like the 'this is your final warning' speech from the evil space alien. The letter would have been appropriate iff he had failed to respond to an earlier and more polite approach.

    Perhaps we should recommend some good books on ettiquite to the lawyers and the PCI-SIG collectively.

  7. This is likely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I won't post my name but I'm in charge of the domain for a fairly large transportation company. I won't explain what that means, but simply accept it.

    Often, people will post information about our company and its operation. I don't know why they do it, and who cares.

    When the marketing people find these sites, they immediately send a cease-and-desist. I try to explain that these people are customers and enjoy our site. That they help our brand by encouraging our customers and fans.

    Marketing says "no, it dilutes our brand, there will be confusion blah blah blah" and they piss off our best customers via our legal staff. Its pointless. I think they need something to do with their spare time.

    So I go out of my way to make sure marketing doesn't see the sites. Its stupid. It serves no one except someone thinks they're a fucking geniuses and they're not.

    Sometimes you're giving people too much credit. Mostly people do dumb things because they're dumb.