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Free Software for Movie Production?

Posted by Cliff on from the amateur-actors-and-aspiring-directors dept.

Ploum asks: " Like some folks, I like to take my mini-dv camera to make films. First, I was using Premiere, then Avid Xpress on Windows. But now I want to make [a movie] on my Debian box. Everybody says that video under Linux is not possible but I want to do it! I want to write the scenario on Linux (maybe with a set of Latex commands or SGML?). When all is in the box, I want to put it on my computer. Dvgrab does a perfect job! Now I'm looking for a video editor. Cinelerra is nice but it doesn't read files from dvgrab. When it's time to have fun with FX, I was using Adobe After Effect, but [are there similar programs for Linux]? Film Gimp? Jahshaka?"

37 comments

  1. great, just what we need... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    GNU/Movies

  2. What I found... by GreyWolf3000 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    FilmGimp appears only for image processing and effects on movies, not the software for "glueing" and cutting scenes together.

    Kino is a program designed to work with dvgrab and also aims to be easier to use than Cinerella.

    --
    Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
  3. It's difficult enough by presearch · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    To use Linux for it's own sake might have some reward
    but considering how difficult it is to do a good job with
    good tools, is it worth your time concentrating on the
    mechanics of filmmaking instead of the film itself?
    What's your time worth? Just getting the audio right
    would be a pain using D.I.Y. Linux tools.

    Just get a Mac, even something cheap like an eMac.
    Use iMovie, outgrow it, then invest in Final Cut Express
    for $500. Spend that saved time working on your film
    instead of your tools.

    1. Re:It's difficult enough by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 1

      Use iMovie, outgrow it, then invest in Final Cut Express for $500.

      Final Cut Express is only $299. Pretty much the only important difference between FCE and FCP is that FCE only works with DV25 media, which is fine if you're using a DV camcorder to lens your footage and FireWire to import it.

      --

      I write in my journal
  4. Except for Kino, you are out of luck by Nice2Cats · · Score: 4, Informative
    I use Linux for absolutely everything except for games and video software -- this is one last area where the Penguin really sucks fish cold and hard.

    You can try Kino which is all DV and is making great strides to change this (even better, if you can program, help them): Only a few features so far, but those are rock solid and well done.

    Avoid Cinelerra -- it crashes like it was written by Microsoft. At first, I thought it was my system, but after asking around a bit, I found out that this is a problem so common as to be a feature. Also, the documentation is a joke; the people writing it obviously are too full of themselves (as in: this is only for professionals, kids, if you don't understand it, you're stupid and should go away) to stoop down to our level.

    Again, this is an area where Apple and even Microsoft wipe the floor with Linux.

    1. Re:Except for Kino, you are out of luck by shepd · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It makes sense that cinerella crashes all the time. The authors stopped distributing the original version of it (Broadcast 2000) as a protest to the MPAA. As usual, it did nothing but slow down the production of the free software (no eyes on the code == no bugs fixed) and ensure that the MPAA sticks to what they know best -- software that challenges freedoms. Big win all 'round...

      But it was their ball, so they can sure take it home if they want. That doesn't mean I have to like it, though.

      --
      If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
    2. Re:Except for Kino, you are out of luck by clueless123 · · Score: 1

      Cinelerra is a bit temperamental, but it does have a LOT of power.. IMHO I believe that with a good manual, most of the negative comments would fade away. PS. I do run it on a 2.4 gig cpu + 1 gig ram.. (RH 8.0 BTW)

  5. Sure. by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

    Start hacking away.

  6. IT's not GPL, but close by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Search "adobe premiere" and "after effects" on Kazaa. There's no cost.

    Then go to this popup laden site and do a query for "adobe premiere serial".

    Voila!

    1. Re:IT's not GPL, but close by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cunt!

  7. Let's try something helpful by TheWanderingHermit · · Score: 5, Informative

    First -- This person has asked a perfectly valid question. He wants to use Linux for video/digital film production. Comments that tell him/her to get illegal copies of software or to switch to a Mac (which just assumes he has the extra money to run out and buy one) are not only not helpful, but are basically a rude way of saying, "I don't have an answer for you, but I want to act like I do, so I'll just suggest something that doesn't really answer your question."

    Second -- This is definately an area where Linux does not have the software. I've spent years in video. I d/l'ed Adobe Premiere (the 30 day demo version) and found it extremely easy to use for someone who is used to "real" video editing. I've tried Cinelerra several times, in test installs, and I've found it to be anything BUT easy to comprehend. This stuff about it being "advanced" or for "advanced users" doesn't wash with me. I have the experience and it's just a pain in the but to find your way around the program. The interface is anything BUT intuitive. (As someone pointed out earlier, in editing, this is a time when you need to focus on the work, not on getting your tools to work.)

    Now, after those comments, here's what, to me, seems a useful suggestion and what I am currently planning. The company Main Concept is a German company. The last version of their editing program, Main Actor (V. 3.65) cost US $100 and worked on Linux and Windows. It's not Premiere, but for $100, I found it a good comparison. Currently the program is unavailable because they are preparing for the release of version 5.0. If you go to their site, you can download a Windows version of their V 5.0 beta 3 and test it out. This version is roughly comprable with Premiere 6.0. Some features aren't as good, but some are better (for instance, there was no smart gain for audio, but there are more sound adjustment abilities in MA than in Premiere). When I last corresponded with the people at Main Concept (when the beta 2 was out), they were still integrating some features into the betas and final version.

    It will probably cost more than the US $100 price of their last version, but I wouldn't expect it to be any more than $150 or so. While it's not open source, and it's not free, it is a good solid program and will do what a video editor needs. They are also working on porting their effects program over to Linux as well.

    I don't expect to see much more in the way of video editing in the open source field for a while. It involves too much GUI programming and the kind of intuitive feel that programmers seem to hate to deal with unless they have to.

    1. Re:Let's try something helpful by damiam · · Score: 1
      to switch to a Mac (which just assumes he has the extra money to run out and buy one)

      He says he was using Avid Xpress. It retails for $1700. A low-end PowerMac also retails for $1700. As much as I like Linux, you're correct when you say it doesn't have the software for this. In any case, I guarentee you Final Cut Pro/Express will beat the crap out of Main Actor. If this guy can afford Avid Xpress, he can afford a Mac.

      --
      It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
    2. Re:Let's try something helpful by TheWanderingHermit · · Score: 2, Funny

      Or, perhaps, he may not be able to afford a Mac because he bought Avid Xpress.

    3. Re:Let's try something helpful by cyb97 · · Score: 1
      Get on one eBay...

      Macs are still the way to go when looking for av-setups...
      And when he bores of MacOSX or the maturity of a/v-software for linux improves; slap Linux PPC on the mac and hes good to go!

      (Disclaimer: This comment was posted from a OSX/PPC)

    4. Re:Let's try something helpful by damiam · · Score: 1

      He could sell it. Or go back to using it - it's a pretty good program, and far better than the Linux choices.

      --
      It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
  8. It's a longshot, but Possible by cioxx · · Score: 3, Informative

    Making a movie is not the hardest part. Making it look good is what matters. Do not expect anything remotely close to AE on linux. There are no substitutes. AE is pretty much prosumer, fairly extended special effects tool which won't appear in the GNU/GPL anytime soon. Then again, you don't really need AE, unless you're trying to create Farscape clones and cheesy made for TV effects.

    Sure, you might be able to do basic stuff in Cinelerra, FilmGimp, etc, but for your movie to look absolutely flawless you need some high-end filters and effects. Jahshaka is in it's early beta and extremely buggy. They are emulating the feel of Discreet Fire (Post Production). I'm not too familiar with it's featureset. Don't count on it to be the Editing solution.

    The secret is not the software itself, but the camerawork. If you put a lot of effort into shooting it, you'll make up for the editing shortcomings. It's definately possible. Hope you made a bet with the naysayers, because they'll lose. Funny thing is, it'll be a piece of cake to make a movie like Pi in linux with open source applications.

    Good luck on your project.

    1. Re:It's a longshot, but Possible by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 1

      They are emulating the feel of Discreet Fire

      Fire is an editor. Flame is for effects. Jashaka was originally intended to be a Flame clone. Whether it stuck to that goal or whether they went the editor route is a question best left for somebody who gives a rats ass about Jahshaka. ;-)

      And in case you're wondering, the reason why we still have separate tools for editing (like Fire, or Media/Film Composer, or Final Cut Pro) and effects (like Flame, or Shake, or Combustion, or After Effects) is because the field of battle is littered with the bodies of programs that tried to do both and failed. Anybody remember Cyborg? :shudder:

      --

      I write in my journal
    2. Re:It's a longshot, but Possible by cioxx · · Score: 1
      Fire is an editor. Flame is for effects. Jashaka was originally intended to be a Flame clone. Whether it stuck to that goal or whether they went the editor route is a question best left for somebody who gives a rats ass about Jahshaka. ;-)

      Well, you get the idea. Most of Discreet's titles have the exact same interface look and feel. Uniformity is the word I'm looking for. That's what Jashaka was trying to do.
    3. Re:It's a longshot, but Possible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is trying to do...

  9. Petition SoundForge by xagon7 · · Score: 1

    I have found Vega Video and their light version to be the BEST editing system on Windows (excluding avid). We need to petition them to port it to Linux.

  10. Kdenlive by i_am_nitrogen · · Score: 2, Informative

    There's a relatively new contribution to the Linux NLE field, called Kdenlive. I haven't tried it myself, but the screenshots look pretty good, a lot like Adobe Premiere (which I use quite a bit).

    http://freshmeat.net/redir/kdenlive/36293/url_ho me page/kdenlive.html

    And for those of you saying Cinelerra is too hard, I have to agree. It's too slow too. I had to remux my DV files into Quicktime wrappers to load them, and then it took me a really long time to figure out how the timeline works (it's not even close to Premiere), and then playing the video was choppy, on my Athlon XP 1800+ with half a gig of RAM. It's a cool idea, but it really needs a new UI. It's not as revolutionary over Broadcast2k as they said it would be.

    The timeline works kind of like Acid's tracks. Each track is a single file, instead of each track being a video layer that can contain any number of events from any number of files. Right now I think that Cinelerra would be capable of producing a half way decent wedding slideshow, but not a whole lot more, at least not without a dedicated rendering farm and months to learn the ins and outs of the UI.

    --
    A solution to the problem with music today
    1. Re:Kdenlive by clueless123 · · Score: 1

      Here again, the main beef with Cinelerra is the lack of a good Manual and the need for horsepower.. C'mon guys.. Is the Glass Half Empty or Half Full? The software itself is good and it actually does the job. Best thing to do is to spend the time, help out on the project by writing a decent manual. Regarding the CPU & RAM required, Big deal.. Use the money that you save using *FREE* software and upgrade your system! BTW here are links to a couple of manuals that people are already writing http://heroinewarrior.com/cinelerra/cinelerra.html http://www.robfisher.net/video/cinelerra1.html

  11. This is the only reason why i still use Windows. by enigmatichmachine · · Score: 0

    I have found that this is the last link in making my machine a linux box. I need to be able to plug in various dv camearas and have them just work while I am using Adobe AfterFX, and premiere. since those 2 programs are almost constantly being used these days, I can't even justify a dual boot. The fact of the matter is that buggy/and or inconsistant or incomplete software is unacceptable when dealing with video, no one wants to drop dozens or hundreds of hours into a project only to find they can't export/convert/do that last thing to make the project complete, they need something that Just Works(great, now I am a mac commercial...) p.s. on a side note my 2 filmaker roomates both have titanium Ibooks.

    --
    -and occasionaly a giant moose.
  12. lyx & script writing by pamri · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I want to write the scenario on Linux (maybe with a set of Latex commands or SGML?).
    Good.But why bother with typing latex commands, when you have Lyx.
    Lyx, according to lyx.org, is a
    "LyX produces high quality, professional output ..using LaTeX.. in the background..No knowledge of LaTeX is necessary to use LyX, although it will give a user more power. "

    Lyx comes with templates for movie & broadway scripts & is a powerful WYSIWYM editor that lets you concentrate on writing rather than formatting. It also has an in-built & easy to use versioning system and you can output to ps/pdf/html/ascii/dvi & misc other formats right from the menu. Read this for more info on what lyx is.
    The reason this post is more abt lyx rather than writing scripts is, it is not a specialised software but never the less it is highly versatile & has some great features to aid you in script-writing.
  13. Linux Video Usefull Links. by clueless123 · · Score: 1

    There is a lot of development going on on various places right now. It is true that some of them are not ready for primetime, but the pace of development is brisk. For now some good leads.. Cinelerra (Good but not for the weak) http://sourceforge.net/projects/heroin For a description of it's features: http://www.lmahd.com/cinelerra.html Kino: (Nice and easy) http://kino.schirmacher.de/ Main Actor (If you got some doe to spend..) http://www.mainconcept.com/products/mainactorLinux .shtml Command line tools (Real men need no GUI!) Mjpeg Tools : http://mjpeg.sourceforge.net/ Transcode : http://www.theorie.physik.uni-goettingen.de/~ostre ich/transcode/ DVGrab : (get your video from your IEEE DV cam) Avidemux : http://fixounet.free.fr/avidemux/ VCDImager : http://www.vcdimager.org/ Some guides: http://www.linuxfocus.org/English/July2002/article 254.shtml#254lfindex4 http://www.linuxmedialabs.com/Docs/LML33-NLE.html# SECTION00080000000000000000

  14. Re:Jahshaka by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look, man, seriously. Whoever modded this off-topic needs a swift kick to the head. The name of the product in question was mentioned in the fucking submission itself! The poster (me, as it happens) shared important insider info on the nature and character of the company behind the product, with a dire and important warning! On which planet could this be considered "off-topic?"

    I don't care about the karma-- obviously, because I'm posting this anonymously and because I've been capped since Jesus got his first pair of sandals-- but I'm pissed off that this post won't even be seen by people who don't browse at -1. This is important, and 100% truthful, shit, and people need to hear it.

    Gah. Moderators suck. Yeah, I'm talking to you.

  15. Why not use Kino by anewsome · · Score: 1

    Can the original author of this thread reply and let us all know why he isn't using Kino, or specifically what features he needs that Kino does not have. Obviously he knows where to get it, as it's available in the same place dvgrab is. So to un-confuse us who might be thinking the same thing I am, please respond to my post. I do a LOT of video work, all on Linux. I make about 2 hours of finished video every single day using dvgrab, Kino, mjpegtools, dvdauthor and other assorted tools. So once again my question is why not use Kino?

  16. Why I do not use Kino by Ploum · · Score: 1

    I try kino, but I need a lot of features that I don't find in Kino. For example, I want to be able to crop, resize, adjust color, make transitions (audio and video), mix audio, and some special effects who are not compositing (color key, title, etc...) Cinelerra seems very powerful, but I have no idea to read dv video with cinelerra. I try all format from dvgrab and I try to convert with : dv2mov, dv2dv, dvavi2mov, etc... It's really a matter ! Now I'm back to windows with premiere for a little project.

    --
    Ploum.net.
    1. Re:Why I do not use Kino by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No idea if anyone is still following this conversation or not, but I would point out that kino does have most of the features you want - either directly or via plug-ins... but ho hum... I've probably joined this conversation too late anyway :-)

    2. Re:Why I do not use Kino by Ploum · · Score: 1

      I didn't know that kino has plugin ! I will try it ! :) (For me it's not too late ! I check every day MY contribution to slashdot, it's the glory ;) )

      --
      Ploum.net.
    3. Re:Why I do not use Kino by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heh - well, there are 3 plugins available (that I know of anyway).

      kino plus which currently has a beta pre-release here.

      timfx is a nice collection of cleverly put together stuff by the original author of k-3d.

      dvtitler provides some nice titling fx...

      Hope that helps :-).

    4. Re:Why I do not use Kino by Ploum · · Score: 1

      wow ! that help me a lot ! useful ! thx ! :)

      --
      Ploum.net.
  17. Re:Jahshaka by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Karsten started a company on miami beach called Editopia, you can find him there

  18. Re:Jahshaka by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Karsten has nothing to do with Editopia. He owns no part of it and does not work there. The guys at Editopia helped fix the problems - at their own cost - for the customers Karsten screwed. They are heros. There is a couple of guys working there that are ex-Visions employees, but the company has nothing to do with Karsten.

  19. Re:I worked there... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hi,

    My name is Mark and i worked at Editopia for close to 6 months when they started-up and i read this and have a few words to say.

    I worked with Karsten at Editopia. His desk was next to mine and he is a great guy. I also know visions went out of business because of a strike that put many other companies out of business, and that was not his fault. That was why discreet let him start over.

    From what I heard, Karsten never ran visions but worked on the road setting up systems. When visions tanked, all the partners took off and left him holding the torch. In order to take care of the customers that were going to be screwed, he put his ass and the little he had left on the line and started editopia with a jamaican friend of his Robert Lee.

    I know that karsten worked without salary at Editopia for close to a year until every last customer had been taken care of... while everyone else there got paid. So his salary paid for their stuff. That was the deal he made and i was there to see it.

    Thats all i have to say! Dont slander the guy, if you have a problem call him up. He was always fair with me while i was there and i wish him the best in whatever he does.

    Mark