Slashdot Mirror


South African Gov't Declared An Open Source Zone

fungai writes "The Business Day reports that the South African government has decided to adopt open source software and develop support programs with local research institutes and universities. The CIO of the State IT Agency says: 'The logic for open-source is so compelling that after a year of debates we decided to stop talking and declare government an open-source zone.'"

25 of 540 comments (clear)

  1. Intellegent thought by tuba_dude · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I love it! Finally a government entity seems to understand the benifits.

    However, Microsoft's response was the kicker.
    "It's a very popular technology today, but ultimately it's not a sustainable business model. What happens when the developers who find it exciting today move on to something which will pay the bills?"

    I almost fell off my chair laughing. It's interesting seeing them confuse state operations and business...Maybe they've been suckling (sp?) on the US government a bit too hard?

    --
    "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
    1. Re:Intellegent thought by TummyX · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So? What if Microsoft decided that they want to move on an abandon a product? You're screwed there.

      At least with OSS you can just contract out someone to continue the work.

      Any many OSS projects are paid for directly or indirectly by various business entities anyway.

    2. Re:Intellegent thought by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're trolling.

      Nevertheless:

      When you're the government, and you need a solution to deploy to a five thousand desktops, the money you spend on licenses could just as well be spent on OSS development. Then, when you deploy to ten thousand desktops, licenses cost nothing.

      The programmer *is* making a living writing programs: He's an employee of the South African government, rather than Microsoft. His spending power and expertise improves the economy of South Africa, not Washington state. If he quits, hire and train someone else. It's still a better investment than software licenses.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    3. Re:Intellegent thought by km790816 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Interesting thought: What if the United States government, which is the largest single purchaser of MS software (if you include the military) spent all of their IT dollars on Open Source solutions?

      They could invest in nailing the problems they wish to solve with no worries about future price hikes and inter-op.

      What could 100s of millions a year (I'm guessing) properly invested do for big Open Source projects?

      Hmm...

    4. Re:Intellegent thought by rseuhs · · Score: 4, Insightful
      You have no idea, right?

      You know why Microsoft's software is expensive?

      First, 70% to 80% of Windows/Office is profit margin.

      Then we have sales and marketing.

      Then we have factories making CDs, packaging them up and sending them around the world where they are further distributed physically.

      Then we have all those "features" like WPA, Palladium, copy protection, purposely breaking formats to force people to upgrade, etc. which are not really needed in an OSS product.

      I'd be surprised if the cost to maintain Windows or Office is more than 2 or 3% of the retail price.

      Just one single developer can maintain even a larger project (hell, Linus still maintains the Linux kernel mostly himself - in his spare time) and the same or (if the project is really huge) another one can add the features you want.

    5. Re:Intellegent thought by Isofarro · · Score: 4, Insightful
      You know why Microsoft's software is expensive?
      Then we have factories making CDs,

      Now this is a laugh when you think about it - if a government orders 10,000 copies of windows, what's the point of sending 10,000 copies of the same CD.

      Here Open Source makes so much sense. Download one copy, or order one copy on CD and install it on as many computers as you would like. Logical and simple.
  2. /me rolls the dice by coene · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "The logic for open-source is so compelling that after a year of debates we decided to stop talking and declare government an open-source zone"

    You have to love it when governments take a "why not" approach to innovation. It's something a lot of USA busineses (and government entities) could take a lesson from.

    1. Re:/me rolls the dice by tuba_dude · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You make a valid point, but we here in the good ol' US of A like big companies. Individuals and individualists are terrorists these days, didn't you know? That and Microsoft (and offtopic, the RIAA, MPAA and friends) pays for a good portion of election campaign bills, among other things.

      --
      "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
  3. Top quote: by achurch · · Score: 4, Interesting
    "It's a very popular technology today, but ultimately it's not a sustainable business model. What happens when the developers who find it exciting today move on to something which will pay the bills?"

    Well, that's an easy one: the high school and college kids who were watching the developers will take their places. Duh.

  4. Amazed at common sense. by eniu!uine · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am very pleased at the news that open source software will be used in SA, but it's certainly not amazing. What's incredible is that more governments haven't switched to open source. There is excellent software out there being given away for free, but people are still using inferior software and paying money for it. It only stands to reason that eventually all smart governments will adopt the 'don't pay for what we could get for free' policy. The Microsoft reaction seemed entirely panic-driven(giving software to schools), and their argument is weak. They are right about one thing though, open source software in itself(i.e. just the software) isn't a sustainable business model. Of course that's completely irrelevant. What's relevant is that the software continues to advance in leaps and bounds, is free and is showing no signs of stopping. Let the open source companies worry about business models, I'm only concerned with my free software that I'm free to change however I like.

  5. A slightly different perspective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting
    One of the areas for future growth for Microsoft was developing countries, so this is an interesting trend. If developing countries adopt OSS policy, that severely limits the growth potential and forces microsoft into a position it doesn't want to be in. Wall Street ranks companies based on growth, and if growth slows or stops all together, it looks bad. Does this mean the company is bad? No, just that wall street thinks in twisted ways and down grades the stock from buy to hold.

    Microsoft is still trying to figure out web services and .NET. The first version of .NET has a lot of improvements over IIS 3 and 4, but it still isn't enterprise class. For small and medium business with minimal needs, it's fine. For serious enterprise apps, it's still has a long way to go.

    If microsoft can't get windows and .NET up to enterprise class in 5 years, they can forget about it happening. I know first hand many large financial corps are moving towards clustered/grid approach to next generation platform, so there's only a small window for microsoft to break in. If they delay be 2 years or more, linux will become the defacto clustering platform for PC hardware.

    1. Re:A slightly different perspective by 7-Vodka · · Score: 4, Insightful
      well I'm not saying anything. But, maybe this guy is a little biased you think?

      It's funny how the link he uses shows no results for linux. So your results show that microsoft beat linux but linux wasn't tested?

      Also, if I recall, microsoft is one of the biggest sponsors of that organization.

      --

      Liberty.

  6. Re:SA more progressive than the US? by God!+Awful+2 · · Score: 4, Interesting


    It appears that, in general, South Africa has leapt way ahead of the US in a large number of policy areas, not just Open Source. They've got fundamental protections in their constitutions which are significantly stronger than those in the US (for example, you can't discriminate based on percieved sexuality, domestic partnerships are law, with same sex marriages in the works, etc.)

    90% of the Western world is ahead of the US on social issues like this. South Africa may have been the longest hold out in the segregation battle, but the US isn't far behind. What other Western country is ruled by a powerful religious lobby?

    -a

  7. Three thoughts to repudiate Microsoft FUD in this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting


    (1) Open-source isn't a "sustainable business model?" So, according to Microsoft, forcing annual upgrades and software subscription on businesses IS a sustainable business model? In the now-infamous Peru letter, didn't Microsoft state that sales make up only a small portion of the overall software cost -- support, integration, and customization make up a far larger percent. That sounds like a sustainable business model to me. Being a US school district that received an audit threat letter from their marketing department, we sure aren't impressed with Microsoft's business model anymore. That's why we switched to StarOffice on 1000 PCs last fall (grand total cost, $25.00)

    (2) What happens when "the developers ... move on to something which will pay the bills?" Well ... either (a) others keep the project open, (b) you hire programmers yourself to keep the project going (and reap the rewards), or (c) you yourself learn to program and keep the project going. Tie in with #3 below.

    (3) What happens when "the developers ... move on to something which will pay the bills?" Well ... what happens when proprietary software is pulled from the market and no longer supported? My school district has a pile of software (as I do at home, for many years) that's been abandoned by their owners. I remember paying $$$ for Lotus Magellan back in the early 90s - incredible software, became abadonware within a year. I could name many more -- I work in education, we a lot of our software gets abandoned over time. You're out your investment. I guess the business model didn't work in those cases???

    The Microsoft FUD machine is really revving up ... but dominoes are still starting to fall.

  8. This is AFRICA not America by HanzoSan · · Score: 4, Interesting


    The average African does not make the same amount of money as the average American.

    So when you say stuff about people in Africa somehow getting rich off of windows programs, you would be right if this were happening in 1995-99, but its 2003, theres no longer a shortage of programmers, the supply of programmers are endless and the supply of software is limited, at least in africa where the people cannot afford the software.

    Their best solution is to develop their own software using their own labor, and then they can build the technology they need to export to the USA and thats how they can REALLY make money.

    --
    If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
  9. US Navy goes the other way by Camel+Pilot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Navy/Marine corp is presently going in the opposite direction. They are launching a large scale contract (NMCI) that restricts all Navy IT to MS and MS solutions. No room for further innovations with other platforms or the application of appropiate technology to the task, just a rosey pink homogeneous MS world. Under the new system you are not even allowed to connect a BSD, Linux, embedded network device or even a MAC machine to the network anywhere.

    At the Navy labs, this one size fits all approach is even more short sighted and foolish. The upper echelon has yet to catch on that the network is the backbone or the infrastructure that enables an ever increasing plethora of monitoring systems, data acquisition and control systems, collabration and communication mechanisms, etc. As more and more devices become Web enabled the Navy has effectively locked itself out in the cold and crawled in bed with built in obsolesce - not to mentioned left itself vulnerable to an attack or virus that would spead like wild fire in a homogeneous network.

  10. Re:Probably not the best country to have done this by grammar+nazi · · Score: 4, Funny
    Greetings friend.

    I am from nigeria and I have a huge fortune in source code (100,000,000 lines of source) locked up in the South African government. A friend at the embassy has made me aware of your trustworthiness... and should you help export this sourcecode from my dictator government, then I will give you 25% of the sourcecode. I will keep 60% of the source code and the other 15% will go towards the fees of transfering it out of my country and into an american repository.

    I need to move fast, since I have only days to export this sourcecode out of my contry before the dictator finds out.

    --

    Keeping /. free of grammatical errors for ~5 years.
  11. Shortsighted and blinkered by christophersaul · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I feel it's nonsense to declare any governemnt department or private institution an 'open source' zone, if the implication is that only open source solutions will be considered.

    What happens when they need functionality that the open source world doesn't offer. I'm thinking of things like the scalability and availability features you get from the big Unix guys (and no, sticking 100 Dells together is not always the answer for big systems). What about when something like SAP, Oracle Apps, Siebel, etc, etc is required?

    Support issues and costs are not instantly solved just because you can look at the source code. That is utterly irrelevant to most IT managers. The last thing govt IT workers I know want to be told is that they no longer need that support contract - they can just look at the code man'. That simply doesn't hack it in a large number of situations. If it does work, then use it, but it shouldn't be the sole policy.

    No IT solution should be dismissed out of hand, whether closed or open.

    1. Re:Shortsighted and blinkered by fferreres · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What happens when they need functionality that the open source world doesn't offer.

      That doesn't happen. Open Source is not a kind of product, but what under what conditions you will accept to purchase software. If the seller never let's you own the software you are funding then the Goverment can't buy it (not even to self support it if the developer drops the product).

      Remember, there are hundreds of rules that must be followed if you want to be a goverment provider. This is just one more of the requirements, and one that makes a lot of sense.

      Why pay billions every year to end up owning nothing, getting more dependant on a foreing monopolist. Putting billions and billions on open source will really be a bargain: nobody can charge you ever again for it, nor force you to upgrade, nor lock you into it. And the pools of countries investing in Open Source ("Public Goods") will grow, and these funds are "additive"...

      MS has done great things, and keeps doing great things, but "the world" no longer wants to pay the monopolistic rent, they realized they want to pay for the cost of production. And they get "National Security", a local software develoment markets and a better current account as a bonus.

      --
      unfinished: (adj.)
  12. A serious question... by boomgopher · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is this move by South Africa, People's Rep. China, et al. really a big win for the Open Source movement, or is it just governments taking free stuff?

    Maybe I'm being a cynic and/or misunderstanding, but I'm not expecting some of these governments to actually contribute anything back to OSS. I half expect some of them to end up violating any licensing the code is released under.

    --
    Your hybrid is not saving the environment. Its purpose is to make you feel good about buying something.
    1. Re:A serious question... by jbolden · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Why? Government universities have a long track record of giving their software back to the community. Government agencies inside the US were actively improving Linux before they were stopped due to lobbying. The government of Germany is funding work that is going into KDE which will be available to everyone.

      I don't see any evidence at all that governments aren't willing to widely share code. Their perspective is likely any of the other major players: if they don't share the code then they have no chance of getting the code in the main tree and they have repatch every new release which is an impossible amount of work.

    2. Re:A serious question... by pjrc · · Score: 4, Insightful
      ...but I'm not expecting some of these governments to actually contribute anything back to OSS.

      Time and time again, people have tried this and failed again and again. When the primary goal is to simply have a good program to USE (not resell to others), it just doesn't work not contributing back. Many have tried this and regretted it.

      What inevitably happens is the "official" project improves, both fixing bugs and including new features. The private code diverges from the public version, even if only in minor ways, it becomes a headache when a patch doesn't apply cleanly. Whomever "maintains" the private code needs to reimplement the improvements that are deemed critical from the public code, and as time goes on this becomes more and more hassle.

      Often the private changes are contributed back into the public version, simply because that is the only viable way to "maintain" the application over time. Sometimes, the private version stagnates or diverges too far. Either way, the lesson learned by an organization who's primary purpose is simply using the software is that it's in their own self interest to merge their improvements back into the public project, where they will be maintained and tested together with all future improvements contributed by others.

  13. Re:SA more progressive than the US? by radish · · Score: 4, Insightful

    By that argument, why should a childless hetrosexual couple have a tax benefit? Or indeed, why should a homosexual couple with an adopted child not get a benefit? In the UK we have a benefit which is paid out to parents (all parents) per child. That seems like a sensible approach if you really are concerned about "making families". On the other hand, if you're simply trying to attach some entirely false special meaning to a hetrosexual pairing then I'm afraid you're on to a loser.

    --

    ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

  14. MS SA pricing by KeenestSA · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As a South African business & games software retailer, I can tell you Microsoft is one of the few companies in the country who refuse to adjust their software prices based on the country they are dealing with. For example the Age of Mythology retails on average here at R 545 (exchange rate R8.80 = $1.00) Whereas a company such as Electronic Arts average PC Games retails for R 299 or even lower in SA. Taking Microsoft pricing policy forward to their business software and licenses, one can see they are horribly overpricing themselves in a country who can ill afford their high prices.

  15. Wrong in the context of SA by SerpentMage · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What bothers SA is that they buy licenses of software, but yet not one company develops software in SA. Using Open Source they are giving the chances to future generations of developers. In other words they are becoming self reliant.

    Lets put it in their context. Would you not do the same? Would you not want to have your people be part of the digital revolution? Buying software does not make you part of that revolution.

    --

    "You can't make a race horse of a pig"
    "No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"