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Issues for the Internet Society

DenOfEarth writes "The Economist has published a series of articles detailing some of the issues facing our current society and the technological leaps and bounds that are leading to the future internet society. They include: Protection of Privacy, Constant internet connectivity, Copyright 's Role in the Future, Technology-based Democratic Process, Government Authority, and Social and Political Ramifications. There's a good deal of information to waste one's time with here, but some good discussion is bound to come out of it."

21 of 132 comments (clear)

  1. Environmental Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How about environmental issues? I'm rethinking my future career in Computer Science since I heard that a single microchip takes 2 pounds of oil and 1 pound of toxic chemicals to create. Obviously most of that is going to the environment as waste byproducts, since chips don't weigh three pounds.

    Also what about the issue of disposal of old computer equipment. All these toxic chemicals are dangerous, and old monitors contain large amounts of lead and some radioactive components.

    We really need to deal with these environmental problems before we can continue along the path of technology in good conscience.

    1. Re:Environmental Issues by knobmaker · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The environmental damage of any new technology needs to be balanced against the environmental damage of the technology it supplants.

      For example, the damage done by cars had to be balanced against the damage done by horses. In that case, the tradeoff wasn't so good, because horse manure is biodegradeable. Still, at the time cars began to replace horses, many citizens hailed the newly clean streets, and were pleased that the exhaust of cars blew away on the wind, unlike the exhaust of horses.

      In the case of chips, I think their impact has to be weighed against the savings in fuel and other resources that such technologies as just-in-time manufacturing, telecommuting (I know, hasn't happened yet) online shopping and paperless archiving (ditto). Consider that a robot with a screw gun doesn't have to drive an SUV to work, and the usual trip to work burns a lot more than a couple pounds of oil.

      Of course, there will be human costs associated with these environmental savings, namely unemployment among former screw gun operators.

    2. Re:Environmental Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Not at all. Consider that good people are about to be sent to their deaths to keep the price of fossil fuels down. There was a similar study some time back that found that, on average, each megabyte of data sent over the Internet (meaning, beyond local networks) consumes the equivalent energy to burning ten pounds of coal (note that in a majority of cases this energy really does come from burning coal). These points aren't really that interesting in themselves - the more salient point is that people are surprised.

      Consider what it takes to refine a chemical in a lab (those who've suffered through post-secondary chem can relate). The public hears that some substance has been isolated or synthesised, and it sounds very simple. In reality there are often tens or even hundreds of intermediate steps, all of which are variously inefficient, involving large investments of energy and solvents and the subsequent disposal of these as waste. These sort of studies merely point out the origin of things that people have come to take for granted, but which are unsustainable. Most people would be pretty surprised if they knew how the composition of an aluminum pop can compares to their monthly electric bill, for instance.

      Mass-production methods are taken into account, of course. No one makes one microchip, or moves one meg of data then dismantles the Internet. It's a running average.

    3. Re:Environmental Issues by SuperMario666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Do you realize that your American / Canadian / European / Australian / Japanese lifestyle requires the yearly burning of oil and generation of toxic waste in sums that dwarf those you just quoted. Unless your seriously thinking of a of a "career" in sustenance farming, I wouldn't sweat it too much.

    4. Re:Environmental Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Since you obviously care deeply about these issues, and you're also presumably interested in working with computing technology, you're probably exactly the person who should enter the field. There are more than enough people there who are too lazy or dumb to care. Maybe you can enter a stream where you look into new chip fab methods instead of programming them, for instance. Nothing ever changes until clever passionate people cause it to.

    5. Re:Environmental Issues by stratjakt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I was going to make a similar point.

      The amount of fossil fuels that go into the electrics of my car save me MUCH more than 2 kgs worth of crude oil thats processed into gasoline. Over the lifetime of the car, those chips have a much greater overall benefit to the environment.

      Likewise a fancy new digitally controlled oil furnace, compared to my 30 year old piece of shit that breaks down right in the middle of a fucking cold spell and I freeze my ass off i mean christ sakes who heard of a fucking furnace that doesnt fucking work if its too fucking cold out?

      Ranting notwithstanding, computer technology in general has many environmental benefits.

      If not for computers we wouldnt be able to as accurately model the environmental effects of computers.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    6. Re:Environmental Issues by urbazewski · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Check out the work of architecht and industrial designer William McDonough, who has great ideas and several cool projects that use cutting edge technology to rethink the entire production process. Check out his new book Cradle to Cradle, written with chemist Michael Braungart,
      "is a manifesto calling for the transformation of human industry through ecologically intelligent design. Through historical sketches on the roots of the industrial revolution; commentary on science, nature and society; descriptions of key design principles; and compelling examples of innovative products and business strategies already reshaping the marketplace, McDonough and Braungart make the case that an industrial system that 'takes, makes and wastes' can become a creator of goods and services that generate ecological, social and economic value."

      This recent slashdot post talked about his firm's ideas for a recyclable car.

      annmariabell.com

      --
      foldplay your photos won't know what hit them.
  2. constant access by sczimme · · Score: 3, Insightful


    From the article:

    Maybe his father has the right idea. Dick hardly sees the old man these days because he always seems to have his video image and live-communicator access blocked. Blocking access is considered rude, even suspicious, but Dick wonders if he shouldn't do the same.

    Find - or make - time to unplug. Don't be a Dick.

    --
    I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
  3. In the future, eberything is just hunky dorey. by Syncdata · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A few objections to Constant interntet connectivity.
    so she briefs herself on politics and votes on some of the half-dozen referendums held every day.
    First off, if we ever get to the point where government is producing more than a half dozen referendums every day, I'm finding another country. Enough garbage gets out with elections "only" once a year as it is.

    Also, Terrorism eliminated just because of security cameras? As though a security camera can stop someone intent on, say, blowing themselves up. I suppose, on the bright side, you would be able to identify him, after he had blown himself up.

    And traffic, a thing of the past, thanks to the hand-held portable and 3d image viewer. I don't see working from home ever happening on the scale it's been touted. It is far more efficient to have your employees at the same place at the same time, rather than off at the opera, supposedly working "on the go". But back to the article, there are plenty of people who's business it is to drive for a living. There will always be traffic in a moderately large city.
    I guess my problem with articles like this is that they make it sound like with just a few more GHZs and MBs, we'll somehow eliminate all the problems of modern society. A toast to foolhardy optimism!

    --
    "Inattention makes clowns of us all" -Bean
  4. content providers ahead on encryption barriers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From the article:
    Conversely, what would happen if copyright were to be abolished entirely, as many cyber-libertarians advocate? Again, this might not prove as liberating as they hope, at least in the short term. Content industries would be unlikely to realise their threat to withhold their products from the digital marketplace. Instead, they might digitise everything as fast as possible, but rely more than ever on technological rather than legal protection. In any race with hackers trying to break through encryption barriers, the media companies would probably stay far enough ahead to suppress most piracy.
    I don't know what the writer was thinking. The media companies are so far behind that the major obstacle to copyright infringement is bandwidth, followed by contamination of P2P networks with bad files. As long as there is no hardware base DRM involved, the "hackers" will always catch up within days.
    1. Re:content providers ahead on encryption barriers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      From the article:
      If content industries overplay their hand, they could end up alienating and losing much of their audience

      I've been a member of the alienated/lost audience for years now. Direct outlay of money for film and audio from me is about $100.00 a year.

      That $100.00 is directly tied to how much quality films/music I find interesting enough to buy/watch at the movie theatre.

    2. Re:content providers ahead on encryption barriers? by BitterOak · · Score: 2, Insightful
      As long as there is no hardware base DRM involved, the "hackers" will always catch up within days.

      And that's the key phrase. What makes you think there won't be hardware based DRM in your no-copyright world? Even if you don't choose to buy a Palladium equipped PC, that doesn't mean that the entertainment industry won't release their content for Palladium-only hardware. The Slashdot crowd may shun and boycott the technology, but the general public will buy whatever they need to, in order to watch the latest movies in high-definition digital television.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
  5. Re:don't you think... by sweetooth · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Except for the politicians nasty habit of using overly broad verbage so that thier fancy new laws cover any new technology that might work in an even slightly similar manner as the current tech.

    Rather than giving up our rights and allowing bad laws to stand unchallenged we need to take a proactive approach. If we don't the time could come when it is illegal to build that something else.

  6. WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO JON KATZ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Where'd he go? He'd be great to talk to about an issue like this.

  7. Re:Anyone else see the S-curve in Internet usershi by krazor84 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    but did anyone ever think that having a copy of the Yellow Pages would "Change Society?"

    No, but the internet is quite diffrent from the Yellow Pages...
    Ok, general information aside, here is what I could do, if I wanted to, from my computer on the internet right now.
    1)Order all my groceries and have them delivered to my door (if I use the right companies).
    2)Read all the news I want to and look at all of opions from editiors, experts, slashdot users, etc. i want to. Most of it's free too.
    3)Buy all the books, CD's, antiques, DVD's, video's, comics, etc. I want and have it delivered to my door.
    4) With a microphone I can effectively call people anywhere in the world for no interntaional call charges. Or I can chat to them online in chat rooms, instant messaging and so on.
    5) I can send my reports to work/university/wherever without having to pay postage.
    How do these things change society? like this...
    1)No more need for supermarkets or checkouts, o people running them... just a few big warehouses arount the area to deal with demand.
    2)No more need for newspapers or magazines, or the newsagents who sell them.
    3)No more need for most of the high street.
    4)I pay less money to my phone operators and as I'm on a flat rate for my internet connection anyway I don't care how many people I call.
    5) No more need for offices.
    If everyone were to use the internet to it's full capability, and order everything they could exclusively through it, then society would change a lot. Our city's would have no need for malls or supermarkets, which seeing as we've used a place like that to shop for at least 2000 years, (think markets, then shops... and so on) it would be a huge change from the past.
    Obviously shopping is an extreme example, but it shows well how having the ability to view everything you need (almost) in one central place (the screen on my desk) could have a huge effect on society.

  8. Voter apathy by benjiboo · · Score: 4, Insightful
    A subject im interested in:

    Eventually, people would vote directly from the comfort of their own homes. The political apathy which has spread through western countries in recent decades would be reversed.

    Why is it assumed that making it possible to vote online etc, is a cure for voter apathy? Sure, for a while we might see increased turnout by people who are considering venturing out to cast their vote, and the easy option swings it, BUT the reasons for voter apathy still exist & it will continue to increase, whilst people feel so disjoined by it all....

    One of democracy's greatest virtues is its flexibility, but the changes about to be wrought by new communication technologies will stretch the adaptive abilities of western democracies to their limit.

    But will it? How do these advances change the process of democracy? Will it make our governemnts more acountable, as suggested in the article? Though we like to complain in the west about corruption & spin, I like to think that the media do a good job of holding our politicians to account. Will it renew our ailing interest in politics? Maybe not - the nature of the web is that you have to go looking in the first place.

    Interesting articles though...

    --
    Vacancy for signature. Apply within.
  9. Re:Anyone else see the S-curve in Internet usershi by Khomar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think it mostly wastes a lot of our time which we could be using to better purposes.

    You bring up an interesting point here that is in itself worthy of discussion. While there are certainly good uses for the Internet for gathering information, it seems most of the time spent with it is actually entertainment oriented. Furthermore, this entertainment is inherently anti-social. While multiplayer gaming networks and chat rooms abound, these relationships are often very shallow. They can never replace relationships built with direct interaction with other people. On of the most profound impacts on society is the generation of a perceived unity in the world even as it isolates the individual from strong, close relationships.

    Another impact is taking an already entertainment driven society and expanding the problem. When you look at the new developments in the Internet, nearly all of them are driven by the demand for improved entertainment. What kind of impact is this having on our society? One could argue, as in the case with computers, that the improvements made in computer hardware to support the gaming industry also enabled work to be more efficiently performed due to GUI interfaces and more powerful applications. However, as the Internet continues to build, are we really seeing major productivity boosts as a result? When I consider the time I spend reading Slashdot, I sometimes wonder if the opposite may be true. We (and I mean we) spend so much time entertaining ourselves that we lose sight of real issues and problems that need to be addressed (poverty, pollution, abuse, etc.). The Internet may actually prove to be more of a curse than a blessing when all is said and done if we simply entertain ourselves while Rome burns to the ground.

    On the other hand, one could argue that the Internet is merely a tool, and the problems mentioned above are purely a result of our society. Does anyone else have thoughts on this?

    --

    I believe in de-evolution. God made the world perfect, man fell, and its been going downhill ever since!

  10. Re:Just like all the other advances... by redbeard_ak · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Couldn't agree more. Ever read "The Overworked American" by Juliet Schor? Seems like we've had incredible productivity increases since the early 50s but our work week has only increased - especially since the 80s. Wtf?

    Employers take what they can get. We're not given the choice. We have to take it.

    --
    . This sig unintentionally left blank. I meant to put something here, but I'm busy.
  11. Re: Entertaining by DenOfEarth · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Your point about people simply entertaining themselves while rome is burning around them is kind of interesting. Although, all of this entertainment does bring us together in some ways.

    As an example, I know many people who seem to be able to "hit it off" with other people quite easily due to the fact that they watch the same television shows on a regular basis. Eliminate the common entertainment experience(which, I assume, they enjoy), and they might not be able to interact in as quick a fashion. Similarly, I can assume that there are a large bunch of like-minded indivduals who I can discuss things like this with over long distances. Also, in the days before all of this internet enabled entertainment were we surrounded by people to a larger degree, or for a longer period of time? I'm not totally sure about that one.

    The second thing I'd like to bring up is the idea that everyone is too busy having fun to realize that things around them are bad. While I would guess that for a large chunk of the technologically enabled population this would be true, there are still going to be people trying to keep the flames down, not because that's what they love to do with their time, but because a stable society means a profitable society which means that these people will get paid to be the fire legion, in whatever form that may take.

    Just my two cents.

  12. Be careful what you wish for ... by s20451 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... because it just might come true.

    --
    Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
  13. Re:Anyone else see the S-curve in Internet usershi by mickwd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "4) With a microphone I can effectively call people anywhere in the world for no interntaional call charges. Or I can chat to them online in chat rooms, instant messaging and so on."
    :
    :
    "4)I pay less money to my phone operators and as I'm on a flat rate for my internet connection anyway I don't care how many people I call."

    I take your point here, but this is as nothing compared to the ability to chat directly with people from all over the world you would not otherwise have been able to communicate with.

    And when you can do that, you can find out about their lives and cultures, and find out that people are basically the same the whole world over.

    You may find that most people from certain countries you have heard a lot about are, in fact, human beings, and not an unthinking part of some "evil society" that other media sources may have been trying to portray them as.

    Alternatively, you may find the opposite is the case.

    But the point is - you can find out for yourself.