Intermixing Cable TV and Internet Service?

AlphaSys asks: "I live in a small apartment community in the Southeast US. Broadband offerings are great in the area (both xDSL and cable). But the management company for the complex has their own 'cable' system in place by which they distribute programming from their satellite system to the residents. The rental agreement forbids anyone from getting cable service from any other provider (except DirecTV, etc.), which also negates our getting cable internet from anywhere, limiting us only to DSL. Here's where I'm going with this: is there any way the front office folk could get broadband service (T1 or fractional) which they could (via a router and multiplexer) then send down the wire with the regular TV signal like cable companies do? I work in networking but have no knowledge of how cable companies roll the two signals together or how you split it out at the customer end -- I just do Cat5/e/6 and fiber but I want to know if these guys can use their existing wire for this. I've searched Slashdot and googled my eyes out but I really can't find any pertinent information on how something like this is done. Does anyone have any information on how something like this is done?"

Comments

Say...

[shunnicutt]

Does Microsoft own your apartment building?

Simple Answer:

[GeckoX]

Move.

You signed a stupid rental agreement, live with the consequences or move.

You need to install a CMTS

[Southpaw]

Since the management company essentially has there own cable plant, they can add anything they want to it. In order to have cable modem service, they will need to install some kind of CMTS (Cable Modem Termination System) and use that. CMTS are basically routers with RF catv ports on them. The CMTS will have at least 2 RF ports, one for upstream and one for downstream. Both of the ports will need seperate RF channels, although the upstream channel does not need to be on a channel used by normal tv signals. Most CMTS systems will provide the downstream signal on an intermidate frequency and need a seperate upconverter to translate the signal to a frequency that can be combined with the standard tv signal. For a single apartment complex, try looking at a Cisco 7111 uBR(IIRC the 7111 is one of the few Cisco CMTSs that have a built in upconverter).

Re:You need to install a CMTS

[michael_cain]

I don't know if they're still on the market, but you used to be able to buy a CMTS that was just a bridge, not a router. At the time, they were significantly cheaper. We used one as part of a traveling demo arrangement. A single Linux host provided all of the software that a DOCSIS system needs to function:

• DHCP
• TFTP serving config files
• timed using UDP (some modems won't work unless they have a time server)
• syslogd accepting network messages (some modems want to report problems)

Some custom software did the routing since we wanted not-quite-normal behavior. The same box was visible on the DOCSIS subnet and provided Samba file-sharing and print services. All on a laptop with a 120 MHz Pentium and 16 MB of memory!

different frequencies = different services

[Anonymous Coward]

It is fairly easy to implement what you are asking. What you would need is a Cable Modem Termination System (CMTS) - like a Cisco UBR, ARRIS CMTS1500, Cadant C4, etc. - and feed your internet connection through it. Essentially, a CMTS is an Ethernet to Coax gateway. The T1 would be terminated at the apartment with a router, and the router would feed the CMTS. Then, you would essentially splice the Coax feed from the CMTS into the Satellite feed serving the apartment units. By setting the CMTS to operate in an open frequency band not used by the satellite feed, the Cable Modems should be able to register with the CMTS without much difficulty.

Expensive?

[MindStalker]

Maybe its just me, but I'd be willing to bet it would be cheaper to create a wifi network than this. Expecially considering the code of a wifi card versus a cable modem on each persons computer.

Re:Pirated?

[karrde]

I wonder if the satellite company knows they are redistributing their signal?

Something tells me I should be moderating this as troll, but I'll respond since I don't have the points.

You've probally never lived in suburiba if you are asking this question. Many of the "condo" type aprtment complexs have this setup. They have several big dishes on the complex, converters and multiplexers in a room somewhere, and they provide cable TV to the whole complex. The cost is usually built in to your rent, and it includes a limited number of channels compared to your local analog cable service. Although it does usually include a Movie channel or two.

They have contracts with the networks/satalite people to do this, and it is very wide spread.

In a word, yes.

[zsazsa]

I live in an apartment community and they're about to roll out cable internet on their own private cable system real soon now. I have my standard DOCSIS cable modem and I'm just waiting for them to flip the switch, so to speak.

Re:In a word, yes.

[extra88]

I liked this part from your link, "Sorry, no pets or undergraduate students." There's a difference? ;-)

Doesn't require CMTS

[nosilA]

The only reason they would need a CMTS is if they wanted to get their own OC3 or DS3 or whatever and provide their own access. The poster simply wants to get cable internet from the local cable company. This cable company may be willing to feed them the DOCSIS portion of the cable spectrum, which the apartment complex could then do a reverse split into their own system.

The only problem with this scenario is that most PCOs (private cable operators) use the bare minimum amount of amplification needed for a decent signal and don't control signal leakage well. This means that the signal strength an carrier to noise ratio in the apartment may be insufficient. But this would be a problem whether or not the PCO installed their own CMTS.

-Alison

Restraint of trade?

[coyote-san]

Is that lease enforceable?

You might want to call up the local cable company and ask them what your options are. Just be sure that they agree to keep your identity confidential if the shit hits the fan (and it very well may, if your apartment complex is violating a legally mandated monopoly) - it would be easy (albeit stupid) for your landlord to attempt to retaliate if your legitimate desire for broadband access ended up costing them big bucks in fines.

Re:Restraint of trade?

[automandc]

The lease is probably enforceable, unless there are unusual laws in the local jurisdiction. The landlord owns the apartment complex, and can choose to allow or disallow any company access to the common areas (i.e. the hallways, stairwells, roofs etc. All parts not inside your actual unit). So, the landlord can choose not to allow the local cable company to run wires around the complex, or to bring their service in from the street.

We have a choice of two cable companies in Washington D.C. (Comcast and Starpower), but our building decided not to make a contract with Starpower because they refused to share distribution lines with Comcast. This means we would have had to allow them to run a second (redundant) set of cables from each stairway junction box to every unit. They won't even share cabletrays. Comcast might offer us a better pricing package, but they will insist on exclusive access. The only other option would be for the building to install its own wiring system between the apartments and the stairways (expensive, especially in a historic building), so we stick with the tyranny of Comcast for now.