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Giant Sucking Noise

bsharma writes "The next round of globalization is sending upscale jobs offshore. They include basic research, chip design, engineering--even financial analysis. Can America lose these jobs and still prosper? Who wins? Who loses?" News.com has a related story about outsourcing.

5 of 1,110 comments (clear)

  1. I'm a BofA employee in Charlotte NC! by Clay+Mitchell · · Score: 5, Informative

    The article is pretty much spot on. By decree of some department head somehwere, 1/3 of the people in each gruop have to be GDC employees (GDC is the termed used for the 2 companies we outsource work to - InfoSys and Tata) - which means if you have 30 people in your group, 10 must be contractors, and 2/3 of those must be off shore.

    What's really depressing is that these changes aren't being done to get BofA back in the black or because it's going down the drain. It's so that they can show 7% (or 4% or something, I can't remember) more profit than they did last year.

    This is absolutely *killing* morale. People worry about jobs. A lot. Our group has actually lucked out a bit - due to the closing of remote offices and a couple people leaving for their own reasons, we've been spared - Our manager is fantastic, he's doing everything possible to keep from laying any of us off. But other groups aren't so lucky. Quite a few people were laid off today, so the rumor mill says.

    It's tough. It's one thing to be laid off for poor performance - it's a whole other ballpark when you're simply getting replaced with somebody a little cheaper.

  2. Let's build an empire by smack_attack · · Score: 4, Informative

    Any empire in history has subjugated the poor of other nations in order to sustain it's own wealth. The US is acting similar in this regard. Unfortunately for you and I, we do not get to reap the benefits alongside the corporations, we are merely discarded in the process. The term globalization does not mean that we will all live easier and everyone will have a job, it means that the empire will no longer have a home base, just as corporations have become a faceless entity to complain about, they are becoming a stateless entity that is no longer subject to the free market rules. These new global corporations may cut a large swath of productivity, but they move from third world country to third world country leaving devastation and ruin in their wake.

    Today the beneficial country may be India and Singapore, but as wages there begin to climb, those same companies will pack up and move elsewhere to start the whole process anew. There is no ethics in that, and there is no sense of responsibility in global corporations who continue in such endeavors.

  3. Re:Painful? Yes. Helps long term? I don't see it. by Zeinfeld · · Score: 4, Informative
    Think about all of the jobs in the steel industry and raw goods refining that used to be housed in the US. I was born in a region that housed booming towns that thrived on the steel, zinc, coal and cement in Pennsylvania. I can tell you firsthand that when refining was able to be done for 87 cents in Asia, the companies left town, the towns dwindled,

    Self serving baloney pumped out by the steel companies. If that fable was true the European steel industry would have gone as well.

    Asian steel producers costs are considerably greater than the 87 cents you quote. It costs them considerably more to ship their finished product than it costs the Us producers. They also have much longer lead times because of the transport time and so they are unable to address markets where quick turnarround is important.

    If you read 'the Innovator's dilema' you will find the real reason for the decline of the US integrated steel mills, they were made obsolete by the cheaper to build mini-mills. There are still successful and profitable steel producers in the US, they are the ones the use mini-mill.

    The integrated refiners have two major problems, the first is that they massively underfunded their pension plans for the past 20 odd years so they could claim to be profitable when in reality they were not. This allowed them to delay restructuring for 20 years past the time when the EU producers restructured.

    The second big problem is that the integrated steel plants are not earning their cost of capital. This is the same in every country regardless of labor costs. 30 years ago when mini-mill technology first appeared the product was only fit for the least demanding uses. Over time the mini-mills have gradually more efficient and produced higher quality output so that today they provduce steel for car body panels which is pretty much the most demanding mass application. About the only market that is not well served by mini-mill today is steel for hand-fashioning by blacksmiths.

    Of course the nationalist fable is a much easier sell, even though the message it sends is ultimately defeatist.

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  4. I am American, and I'm not worried. by X86Daddy · · Score: 4, Informative
    As many posters have pointed out, one of the results of this process is that other countries are increasing their standards of living. That's great!

    Wealth begets wealth.

    Yes, there's quite the imbalance between my salary and a Fortune 500 CEO's, and that's not changing much. What is changing is that people in other countries are ending up with more money to spend individually, and end up with their marketplace infrastructures being upgraded. India has Internet connections. FedEx delivers in India. The same countries getting the jobs are also becoming consumers and export markets. There is temporary pain like this for us, but there will eventually be ROI. It just sucks when you're the individual out of a job.

    And what happens to us Americans if and when the US faces disaster? I'm not loyal to the US so much as I am loyal to a country that provides:
    • secular government
    • individual liberty and freedom
    • infrastructure (plumbing, 'net connections, entertainment, roads, etc..)
    • livable weather

    If the US crumbles in this endeavor (which I doubt), it will do so while a few other countries outdo the US in the areas listed... some would argue that there are other countries that already far exceed it in the areas that matter to them.

    You too can play the globalism game.
  5. This is a payback for currency system abuse by Alex+Belits · · Score: 4, Informative

    After WWII US dollar became the only currency left standing -- every other country that had an economy good enough to support international trade in its own currency was devastated, US remained ok (because it was separated from a war by the oceans, and please shut up about what others "owe" to the worst military among allies in WWII).

    What followed was a horrible abuse of this "de-facto international currency" status, the (number of dollars abroad)/(amount of products traded abroad for dollars) was significantly lower than the (number of dollars in US)/(amount of products traded in US). In other words, everything was cheaper abroad and expensive in US, so US simply printed dollars (or, to be more precise, created them as Federal Reserve loans) and injected them in this system. The system worked through osmosis, it became easier to buy products abroad, sell them in US, pocket the profit and call yourself a rich company while producing nothing, and merely exploiting the slowness of trickling of dollars abroad by making it a bit faster.

    Of course, due to this difference in prices, and efficiency of non-export parts of foreign countries' economies, US citizens could hear blood-curdling stories about low salaries abroad, when they were counted against US dollars, however it was nothing but a propaganda trick -- the prices difference was not taken into account, and the lack of reliable currency conversion rates for countries and products not involved in trade with US allowed for absolutely ridiculous numbers. Just look at GNP figures and think, how is it possible to have such a disparity, yet people don't starve everywhere abroad. So for US citizen there was no visible difference between indeed starving people in Cambodia and rather prosperous people of India.

    However everything comes to an end. "Osmosis economy" can't run forever, and just buying stuff while racking up trade deficit becomes more dangerous, and other currencies (mostly Euro) issued beyond the US control are becoming used in international trade. However US companies can't expand the production within the country -- educational system and media prepared only consumers for them, there aren't enough people that can and are willing to produce something, they would rather accept sliding quality of life for themselves. So US proclaims itself to have "service economy" (aka doing each other's laundry) and "high technology" (aka having a lot of engineers). The problem is, "service economy" is big fat zero unless it supports production of something, and engineers in US meet just as much competition from foreign engineers as US workers did before, therefore all the outsourcing you can see.

    So US as a whole became an arrogant, unskilled and incapable of supporting itself nation by abusing currency machinations -- something that often happened to individuals and now happened to the country as a whole. And here is the sucky part -- crook that lost his money does not harm millions of people that ARE capable of productive work yet happened to live in a country where the macroeconomic processes deny them this work.

    If US wants to restore its currency system to something usable, sooner or later it must significantly devalue dollar, and possibly tie it to valuable commodities (say, gold) and stop the "osmosis" forever. If US wants to restore its production capability it must rebuild its educational system. And if US wants to get people capable of doing productive work now and not in 20 years, it must reduce barriers to immigration. All of those measures will without any doubt decrease "quality of life" -- at leasr temporarily, and at least for some parts of the population. However the only alternative to them is accelerating slide into poverty, and turning the country's economy into an equivalent of giant failed dotcom, like flooz.com x 1e6.

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