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PATRIOT II Legislation Leaked
Buck Mulligan writes "The Center for Public Integrity reports that it has obtained a copy of PATRIOT II -- a huge law enforcement power grab that is intended to build on the USA PATRIOT Act. It's called the 'Domestic Security Enhancement Act.' CPI says it would increase domestic intelligence gathering and surveillance while reducing judicial review and public access to information. For more on the first PATRIOT Act, see the EPIC page."
that, soon, Alot of our Base are going to Belong To Them. :(
You are not the customer.
For if we don't we deserve what we get, and anyone voting to keep the current Bush administration, must be insane.
3000 dead over past 2 years, still no free Palestinians, still
Privacy is not for the boring. Those of us with colorful lives want privacy. But if you're lame and boring you dont really need privacy, and dont care about those who value it.
Unfortunately the majority of people dont want privacy except _maybe_ in the bedroom.
Apparently terrorists have tragically gone free due to the inability of investigators to pull up their credit records.
I also like the bit about how the use of encryption in the commission of a crime would be a felony. Recursion anyone? Sounds like a blank check search warrant on anyone using PGP to me.
Now, If we could only get the British gov to stop proposing similar dumb laws (ie. EUCD) that make the EU look more like the USA.
If this one goes through, I've got yet another reason to avoid going to the USA and working/living there.
Well, anyone who wants to weaken the security of the HomeLand(insert-your-best-trumpet-'dum-dum'-for-ef fect) would be against this Legislatoin. Everyone whos not a leftist, pinko, commie knows that the PATRIOT ACT is vitally necessary in the new Post 9/11 America.
I for one look forward to the security that the US PATRIOT ACT II will bring to the Homeland. Anyone who would be against this effort is an enemey of the state -- an Anti-American if you will -- and is obviously involved with the Terrorists Themselves -- please notify your local HomeLand Security Office of any suspiscious Anti-American Activity.
Thank-you,
Sincerely,
The Deacon of the Bipartisan Party.
Holy damn...
Got your tinfoil hats ready? Ok...here we go.
Patriot Act. v2.0
Section 101:Would extend the idea of a "foreign power" to include all persons. Regardless of if they are affiliated with terrorists or not. mmm...ok
102: v 1.0 limits "agents of a foreign power" to people to are activly violating or have the goals to violate federal law. v2.0 wants to eliminiate this.
This alone, combined with the known abuses of v1.0, would give any administratiion absolute and ultimate control. There is another 15 odd pages of further detail..but no more is needed.
I believe that somebody overreached. Between this and the doubling of the tax cut, things might be about to change...
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The problem with the two clauses listed above is that it opens ANYBODY up to a full investiation..which includes revoking citizenship and deportation.
Mmmm...facism...*drool*
Is immigrants swimming BACK to where they came from.
Anyone know of any tech jobs in Cuba?
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
The Center for Public Integrity has intercepted a sequel to the Patriot Act that is being called the "Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003". Here are a few mirrors to the document... (we will need more): one, two, and three. A notable part of the prospective legislation is that a new federal felony is created for willfully using encryption during the comission of a felony and that a judge in a different part of the country can issue a search warrant for another part of the country for terrorism or "computer crime". Why should you care if this isn't even close to law yet? 1) It's written by John Ashcroft and 2) The Bush administration is great at getting these things passed during emergencies (wasn't the homeland color just kicked up a notch?)
....Is that John Ashcroft is just tring to get back at the citizens of Missouri for electing a dead guy instead of him. Too bad that the rest of us are going down with them.
Okay, the odds that this legislation would get passed right now is really slim. I mean, without the pressing fear of imminent terrorism, there's no motivation for it. So, I'm wondering if the DOJ's intent in drafting this was to keep it on the shelf until the next terrorist attack happens. Then they would come out and explain that they couldn't stop it because they didn't have all the powers they need, and conveniently they'd have legislation ready to roll.
I'm very glad this has come out at a time when our heads are mostly screwed on straight so we can shoot it down in the light of day.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
You whining liberal wussies make me sick. The only way to protect our freedoms is to allow Herr Asscroft unlimited powers to do whatever he wants. He is an honest, moral, ethical Christian man who loves, nay, reveres the US Constitution. He and pres shrub will not rest until all of our rights are suspended, in order to protect our liberties. God bless America.
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SCO is weenies
Gator is Spyware
Microsoft is thugs
Remember what Sen. Feingold said about a *return* to an era of invasion of privacy and harrassment.
In 20's and 30's america labor leaders and other troublemakers could expect to be spied on, harrassed, framed for this and that (John Steinbeck never went to a hotel alone for fear of
being framed for rape).
In the post-war era it wasn't so bad, but even then there was McCarthyism and spying was done on suspected communists that'd raise quite a few eyebrows now. It's really only since the civil rights era that Americans have come to expect the very high level of privacy and fairness that our generation has enjoyed.
Rather than sinking into a new and unexpected bad patch, it's more that along good patch may be ending.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
My physical body is in America... but really, there are places I'd prefer to be where my heart is. Canada, where are you? Am I allowed to pass through the Iron Border? Or does America have to seize my computer at the border for illegal MP3s, PGP encryption, movie trailers and more?
I can't stand the way the USG is handling this. If Americans would stand up for their rights instead of being in a stupor over "terrorism", we could get our hard-earned rights back. One of my Canadian friends from online has called me an honorary Canadian and is offering me safe haven should the USG ever come after me lol.
Enough rambling... go talk to friends and more, print out pamphlets, write your Congresscritters, do something constructive towards repealing and destroying these evil policies.
Section 501, "Expatriation of Terrorists": This provision, the drafters say, would establish that an American citizen could be expatriated "if, with the intent to relinquish his nationality, he becomes a member of, or provides material support to, a group that the United Stated has designated as a 'terrorist organization'."
Would that include the US government for giving $43 million to the Taliban in May of 2001 for their "War on Drugs" efforts?
Call Gore. I think we just figured out how to evict the squatter.
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
Of course this was a popular quotation for Timothy McVeigh. The second part of the quote: "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
Makes one think.
What is music when you despise all sound?
That's what happens when you sit idly by watch the Nine Gavelers in Black give the Ring of Power to George Orwell Bush. He protects America by destroying it.
Funny that we would fight communism for 50 years only to see the eastern block fall and America gleefully embrace the oppressive Big Brother powers of a secret government.
At this point I have to wonder if some of the more ultra right-wingers like Ashcroft are arranging global annihilation so they can see their biblical end game fantasies come true.
America has been a "police state" for the last several decades... Everything our society does is regulated, the Feds have power that would be abhorrent to the framers of the constitution... They've been doing it for years covertly, in small ways... the real truth of the matter is that the US public doesn't know, and for the most part, doesn't WANT to know, just what the government routinely gets away with. As long as they can shop at the Gap, drive their SUV's, chat on their cellphones, Check their email at AOL, and watch the latest network tv drivel, they're happy.
Now at least the govt is being OPEN about its facist tendencies.. which makes it easier to resist, if anyone is left who has the heart. Ben Franklin said it best, I think... something to the effect of "Anyone who would trade freedom for security deserves neither."... And history will show, gets neither as well.
Oh, how Babylon the mighty has fallen.
It reminds me of some german Pastor who said something like
"First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me."
Open your eyes. Look around. Watch the news.
Jailing a 15 year old guy because his father is a member of Al-Qaeda is not what I would call fair.
But there is a difference. You are the reason why we have Bush in office today. It is large amounts of the moderates and the slight lefters who don't see a difference so don't vote. I guarantee the right wing can see a difference between Bush and Gore...
Democrats and Republicans are very a like in many ways, but the ways that they differ are prohaps the most important. Mostly it is on matters of human freedoms, like this the Act that this story pertains to.
It IS important to vote.
In the future, things will get worse becuase we allowed future abuses. This government was set up to prevent it, and now in the name of security, we are giving up the important checks and balances. These last 20 years have done more damage to these than at any other time in history (the WW2 damage was temporary, these are permanant). BTW, folks, clinton has been part of these stripping of rights as well.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
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> I can still do the same shit I was doing even before bush > was in
> office or even before Patriot.
I take it you're white? Your name doesn't sound in any way shape or
form like it is rooted somewhere in the far east?
>The DMCA was put in BEFORE bush and even that hasn't
> affected my
> life.
YET, the DMCA is something that the industry wants, they try to use
it (just read the newssites, or even look at slashdot), give it
another year or two and you WILL feel the effects (like when you buy
your new HDTV TV).
> Have any of YOU been hauled off to jail out of the blue?
I had the "pleasure" TWICE to sit around with Immigration for quite
some time, no I am not an american citizen and that was before 9/11
but I wouldn't be surprised if they would decide to question me again
the next time I fly into the US. Much more so now that Germany seems
to be falling into the "Axis of Evil".
> The day that ANY of these things happens to someone
> that is NOT an extremely shady character to begin with,
> is the day you can bitch.
Buddy of mine, Israeli, trying to visit the states from Canada,
because of his "accent' they pulled him out and had 12 hours of very
interresting discussions with the immigration officers. Yeah I would
say that is completly harmless.
A lot of the thigns the US is discussing has been done in other
countires (e.g. Germany with the national ID card).
The problem with things like the Patriot Act is that it WON'T prevent
anything, it will just give you an illusion of security.
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If you want to e-mail me, use my PGP Key.
You are totally missing the point.
Sure, you can do whatever you want now that you did pre-patriot. But once you start allowing your government to errode your freedoms, you are going to run into problems. What if Partiot Act V includes restrictions on computers that are on non trusted platforms. Suddenly you become a 'terrorist' if you dont want to play nice with Microsofts latest behemoth of an operating system. But because you didnt stand up for your rights and your freedoms back when they werent taking away anything that affected you directly, there is no one left to stand up and say 'Wait, this is wrong'
There is a famous saying that goes:
'In Germany, they first came for the communists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the Jews and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics. I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak up.'
I am not trying to compare the USA to Nazi Germany, in spite of the current administrations seeming desire to take away some of the fundamental rights that are entrenched in your legal system. I am just saying that if one keeps their head in the sand, you'll never see the lion sneaking up to bite your backside.
Hmm, "huge law enforcement power grab" sounds too negative. How about "temporary civil liberties adjustment"?
(With apologies to The Simpsons )
Why do you think Bush is poking his fingers into the eyes of the Arab world? Why do you think we keep getting upgraded to "orange alerts"?
Creating fear and starting wars gives politicians power.
Who would dare oppose something called the Patriot Act? That's great fodder for political campaigns ("John Congressman says he loves America, but he voted to raise taxes and even supported terrorists by voted against the Patriot Act").
A vote against the "Patriot Act" is a vote for Osama!
both current major political parties want one thing: Big, caretaker government.
No, it is the majority of the American people that want "Big, caretaker government". For some reason the majority of the general American populace seems to feel that the government should and worst yet, could provide the omnipotent and benevolent protection of a diety.
This is why acts such as the Patriot Act are so easily and quickly passed by such a majority. The government obviously, cannot really provide such a level of protection but, they are still all too happy to accept the power supposedly necessary to provide it. The fact that the majority of the people actually believe that any government could provide such a level of protection speaks volumes about the intelligence of the man on the street.
This kind of slow, incremental wearing away of human rights is exactly what happened in Nazi Germany.
People need to wake up and understand that there are ALWAYS people who want to disenfranchise the rest of us. The wolf is ALWAYS at the door. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
There are three things that people can do.
1) Vote
2) Join the ACLU
3) Joine the NRA
The reason for the first is obvious. The reasons for the second and third are that the ACLU is a strong champion of individual rights, even if they are part of the loony left. The NRA is of course a strong champion of individual rights as well, even if they are part of the loony right. I'm a member of both and give generously to them.
Laws like this can only come to pass when our representatives in congress are not representing us. The only way that situation can arise is if the voters in general have not been holding them accountable. Any legislator who would put forward legislation intended to deny us our rights is a traitor because they have broken their vow to defend and protect the constitution. Should we re-elect such a person? I'd rather elect a pig straight from someone's barn to office than see someone like that remain in power. The american political landscape is dominated by party politics and this is a big part of the problem. People will vote for someone because of their party, or will vote for a party because that is what they've always done, or because they've been suckered by the propaganda that both major parties just love to spew out. It is sad to see so many people led around by the nose and irritating to have to hear them regurgitate the propaganda that they've swallowed down with relish. Look past the propaganda and bullshit. Be willing to vote for a different party. Become informed about issues that matter and the party's agenda on these issues. If people would do this then a lot of this kind of bullshit would cease to exist.
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
Even the Germanys don't want anything to do with America, isn't that a huge sign?? A country that had been bent on world domination for so long, doesn't even want to touch the USA with a 10 foot pole. You might wonder if they know something based on experiance. Hell, don't jump in bed with a madman trying to turn the country into a policed state!.
.. was he.. damn America is full of stupid people..
The USA is passing laws for unlimited gov't control and secrect agencies. People disappear for no good reason or explaination and get deported (least they aren't gassing them on the way out, they wait till they get them to their home country and then just bomb the shit of it.. All's fair in love and war.) And all this time anyone who doesn't think this is a good idea is called unpatriotic and an america hater. I do beleive this all happened before, started with a guy named Hitler.
You know, say what you want about Clinton, but in the 8 years he was in office, there wasn't one major war.. Vote in two Bush's and you get a war for oil everytime.. oh but wait I guess the second Bush wasn't really voted in
There's a bit of a fallacy in your argument, dear sir. Let me explain:
Take, for example, the new federal law that all foreign nationals from certian countries be required to register with the government: several news artivles about how this process has revealed that many people have been detained. Not a problem... except they're being detained without the right to a lawyer; habeus corpus has been suspended for them (they do not know what evidence and what crimes they are being charged with -- something out of Kafka's "The Trial", I believe); and currently reporters can't find out who's being held, why they're being held, or even how many are being held.
This extension of the PATRIOT Act makes these things legal. Which means they could charge you, and not only could we not know why, or if, you are on trial -- you wouldn't even be able to get a lawyer.
Next, let me admit, you're right, I haven't had any civil liberties restricted directly that I know of. Let me stress that last point: you talk of wiretapping. I wouldn't know if someone was tapping my lines, because with the PATRIOT Act, if I was labeled a terrorist, it wouldn't be private or public knowledge; it would be completely unknown, as the request would go to the United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. Again, I reference this Real Audio file from This American Life, it gives the details. This court meets in secret; it's documents are not published and not for review. So not only would you not know if you were being wiretapped; no one would.
Finally, if I had been hauled off to jail out of the blue, I probably wouldn't have access to a computer to check on Slashdot, and be able to read and/or post to your question; jails of this sort tend not to let people have access to computers.
I'm not worried that they're coming for me today; I'm worried that if, in the future, I expouse beliefs that are opposed to what the government believes, I will become labeled a "terrorist", and will have my rights unilaterally suspended. What happens to my neighbor this week can happen to me next week -- so I want what's fair for *everyone*.
Whatever you do... don't read this.
I've always tended to be rather left-leaning, and during the '90s I heard the constant tirades from the fringe-right about the coming abuses of power from the U.S government.
My typical reaction was one of amusement and sadness that people had actuallly convinced themselves that such things could and more importantly, *would* happen. Especially in the short time-frame predicted.
I stopped liking Clinton years before he left office (Democratic Party != Left Wing, Bill Clinton != Ethical Man), yet I did not partake in the growing hobby of "List evil things the Clinton Administration will do next year".
Clinton left office, and a man touted as being responsible and ethical moved into the White House.
The rest, as they say, is history.
The push to circumvent the very spirit of our Constitution has been constant since 9/11. Though, I don't think a Democrat would have done any better - they have become a spinless party unable to even find a platform. Don't bother calling them Left Wing - that is so 40 years ago. They don't even know what they stand for and are unwilling to fight anything the Bush administration proposes. They have become the CNN of poltics. The people that just agree with whomever is in power 99.999% of the time. They could have done something, they could have tried to change the course of events, before the post-9/11 legislative momentum built up to the point it is at now.
But they did nothing.
And now they still do......nothing.
The fringe-right is silent. Their nightmares are coming true, but instead of doing anything about it, they are continuing to talk about what has already occured as if it is still in the future, while they throw their support behind Bush.
The far-left is too caught up in the legacy of the past 40 years to pay attention to anything that is happening today. Instead of uniting to fight the efforts of the Bush administration, they are leaving that to a brave few, while they remain largely fractured and busy with far too many issues to even make a dent. It's embarassing when I'm associated with these people. The left, while idealistic, has become unable to *do* anything with those ideals. Many of their beleifs could change things for the better, and are compatible with even Libertarian philosiphy, but as a movement - a political and social force - they are now a joke.
Too bad we could reallly use ther help right now.
Section 404: Use of Encryption to Conceal Criminal Activity.
In recent years, terrorists and other criminals have begun to use encryption technology to conceal their communications when planning and conducting criminal activity. Title 18 of the United States Code currently contains no provision on the use of encrypted communications to plan or facilitate crimes. This proposal would amend federal law to provide that any person who, during the commission of or the attempt to commit a federal felony, knowingly and willfully uses encryption technology to conceal any incriminating communication or information relating to that felony, be imprisoned for an additional period of not fewer than 5 years. These additional penalties are warranted to deter the use of encryption technology to conceal criminal activity. In addition, it does not address the issue of whether software companies and internet service providers should give law enforcement access to "keys" for the purposes of decoding intercepted communications.
"Attempt" to download a copyrighted work from Kazaa and email someone about it using PGP = 5+ years in federal prison.
Ironic that it is section "404".
I don't have any problems with any of the key points brought up in the article, when applied to terrorism. As I read through the sections thought to be the most egregious, I'm just nodding along going "mm hmm", "sounds good", "hell yeah", and "why aren't we already doing this?"
The only problem, of course, is who defines "terrorism"?
Think about that for a while.
How many people had to die for freedom, because appearantly it only takes 3000 deaths to take it back. More people die every year of the flu, but I don't see acts of congress trying to prevent flu as serious as these. Aids will kill more people this year, but the government isn't sinking the kind of money they used to fight Afghanistan to find a cure. This isn't about American lives, it's about changing our govenment to a police state. We're going to war with Iraq for 2 reasons. #1 oil, #2 to try to keep Bush's popularity up amongst the red-necks. He's the most horrid president that the US has ever seen. Even if his policies tend to show that he wants to rid the US from dependance on oil, he has done so much to harm freedom and the economy. From his tax plan to having the DOJ pretty much drop the MS issue, he's screwed the economy to the point of practically no return. The job market is getting thinner. He has allowed or worked to create many laws that break the fundamental rights of Americans. The Patriot Act should be unconstitutional because we are given freedom from unreasonable search and seizures. Don't depend on the courts saving you though, because the whole MS issue has only taught us that they can't be trusted either.
Karma Clown
what a sad world we live in, when someone like me, someone who is generally anti-political, someone who despises the self-serving two choice system we have today, can say right now that he'll vote for whoever the crappy Democrat candidate will be in the next election. George Bush is that repugnant.
The fools who voted for Dubya can consider themselves responsible for this steady erosion of our rights, and the steady consolidation of power by Big Brother. But hey, at least the economy is humming right along! Oh, wait.....
Republicans are more likely to give me more leeway with my own property,
Not really. Sure, Bush blabs on and on about tax cuts, but then jacks up government spending. Here's a big clue - your taxes are, in the long run what govenment spends. Nothing more, nothing less. It can't be anything else. Tax cuts don't do anything to reduce what you are are going to have to pay if there is no control on government spending, for the simple fact that the effect of deficits is a hidden tax that takes effect on the value of the dollar.
The only REAL way to control taxes is to control spending. That is something that Clinton did far better than Bush ever dreamed of.
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government"
--Thomas Jefferson
And I'm sure that the government is now much more tyrannical than was ever imagined possible in his day.
Constitution 2.0
We the Government...
It's remarkable how John Ashcroft is the karmic successor to Joseph McCarthy; we're in a modern-day Red Scare, but with a very sympathetic administration and a apathetic public. The potential for (further) permanent damage to Americans' civil liberties is very real and very frightening.
Am I exaggerating? Well, can you tell them apart?
FWIW, link to ACLU coverage and a Google News search.
Remember the scene in the movie "Minority Report" where the team is searching for the hero - and drop the 'bugs' into the building - and everyone has to stop what they are doing and assume the postion to get scanned.
Its coming. When Federal Agents come knocking on your door because an electronic filter decides that your purchase of certain books, your web browsing propensities, and some people you met in passing at the coffee shop (caught on video) - adds up to something dangerous (to the state), and the agents don't need a search warrant to invade your privacy and tear apart your home in search of something that isn't there.
The NSA was profiling peace activists and human rights activists during the 60s and 70s - intercepting and analyzing their communications during the 1960s. During that time this was abused, and it was stopped for a reason. Now we are starting to do this again - civil rights will suffer. Witch hunts the likes of the communist scare of the 50s will happen in secret as people mysteriously disappear without habeus corpus rights. The government has been removing large amounts of information that was public knowledge a year ago. What else are they doing under the ospices of secret executive orders? Why do we have to give up our rights to protect this country? If something smells bad, it generally means it is bad; this smells bad.
We will probably wake up as a people when things get too unbearable. Hopefully it won't be too late (I have faith in the sense of democratic principles and right and reasonable government by the majority of people when push comes to shove). Just hope you are not one of the Minorities...
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
"When the people fear the government, you have tyranny. When the government fears the people, you have freedom."
- Thomas Paine
This kind of slow, incremental wearing away of human rights is exactly what happened in Nazi Germany.
People need to wake up and understand that there are ALWAYS people who want to disenfranchise the rest of us. The wolf is ALWAYS at the door. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
There are three things that people can do.
1) Vote
2) Join the ACLU
3) Joine the NRA
The reason for the first is obvious. The reasons for the second and third are that the ACLU is a strong champion of individual rights, even if they are part of the loony left. The NRA is of course a strong champion of individual rights as well, even if they are part of the loony right. I'm a member of both and give generously to them.
Laws like this can only come to pass when our representatives in congress are not representing us. The only way that situation can arise is if the voters in general have not been holding them accountable. Any legislator who would put forward legislation intended to deny us our rights is a traitor because they have broken their vow to defend and protect the constitution. Should we re-elect such a person? I'd rather elect a pig straight from someone's barn to office than see someone like that remain in power. The american political landscape is dominated by party politics and this is a big part of the problem. People will vote for someone because of their party, or will vote for a party because that is what they've always done, or because they've been suckered by the propaganda that both major parties just love to spew out. It is sad to see so many people led around by the nose and irritating to have to hear them regurgitate the propaganda that they've swallowed down with relish. Look past the propaganda and bullshit. Be willing to vote for a different party. Become informed about issues that matter and the party's agenda on these issues. If people would do this then a lot of this kind of bullshit would cease to exist.
Bush's New Math!
2003 = 1984
"In order to save our freedom we had to destroy it"