Sci-fi Channel's Children of Dune

jazdogg writes "Caught the trailer last night on the Sci-fi Channel for the new Frank Herbert's Children of Dune mini-series. I only hope this series is better than the previous one." I dunno - I liked the last Dune series, and am looking forward to this one.

Comments

Sci Fi channel doing more literature?

[Anonymous Coward]

Would anyone else besides me like to see Sci Fi channel concentrate more on adapting SF literature than on recent bad horror films?

Re:Sci Fi channel doing more literature?

[minektur]

I agree, though focusing on _good_ SF would be even better. I am not sure that 'Children of Dune' would qualify.

I have almost stopped watching Sci Fi due to the constant barrage of bad horror flicks.

dune

[psyklopz]

dune was only really inspired in the first novel.

beyond that, it got tired. Herbert even has selective memory of some things... in the first novel, Paul had a son he named Leto, but his son was killed.

Afterwards, when they have the twins (children of dune), they carry on as if that first child never existed (one of the twins is even named Leto).

It seems to me that the original Dune novel was intended to stand on it's own. Herbert gave into the pressure of his publishers and screwed up an otherwise perfect and mysterious universe by putting out a series of weirder and weirder sequels.

Re:dune

[jjohnson]

Actually, Herbert had sketched out a seven volume story covering 10,000 years; parts of Dune Messiah and Children of Dune were written before Dune was finished. And the second of Paul's children named Leto was consciously named that because Paul wanted a son named after his father.

Herbert got through six of the seven. His son has the notes for the seventh, and is preparing to butcher his father's legacy as he's done six times already with those godawful prequel books.

Re:dune

[plover]

I think the second novel was a decent followup to Dune, but it's also where Herbert started to get more wrapped up in the political / religious issues.

After the second book, even the bogus political / religious issues took on a tiresome sameness, rather like the plotions manufactured for each episode of Star Trek. I found them frustrating. He hinted at all these worlds, each of which could easily have been as interesting as Arrakis (I wanted to see a book set on Salusa Secundis) but they all focused around the lame Bene Gesserits.

I hope the SciFi channel has enough sense to stop filming sequels after this book.

Re:dune

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Dune was initially conceived as trilogy. The first book sets up Paul as the perfect Messianic hero. The following two books tear down this hero and point out the perils of the hero myth with is so prevelant in our religions and culture. An excellent yet lenghty analysis written by Tim Oreilly can be found here: http://tim.oreilly.com/sci-fi/herbert/

Re:dune

[Twirlip of the Mists]

I've read this before-- the thing about how Frank Herbert had plans for a book 7-- but it seems to me that the ending of Chapterhouse is just too perfect. I prefer the saga the way it is now, ending on a cliffhanger and with that little commentary by Marty and Daniel, who many people think represented Bev and Frank Herbert talking out of character about the story itself.

It seems to fit, for me, with the interwoven theme of prescience. Paul was cursed by his prescience, and Leto's vision of the future was of humans who were immune to prescience. The end of Chapterhouse, in which Duncan and Sheeana fleeing the known universe in a no-ship, seems to symbolize Herbert's creation escaping beyond the limits of his own vision.

But what the hell do I know, anyway?

Re:dune

[The Bungi]

I agree to a certain extent but I think that there were too many unanswered questions. For example, the background of the Honored Matres. Herbert drops precious few hints about them (the "frame bush" thing; the "weapon and charge" thing; who were the futars and why were there so few "handlers"?). Also, he suggests that Marty and Daniel (which I think were a play on his deeply cynical view of religions) are face dancers. What does that mean as far as the dynamics between the Tleilaxu and the Bene Gesserit? Why was it Idaho the only one that could see them? Did it have anything to do with his ghola condition? The only remaining Tleilaxu master had that nullentropy bin in his chest with cells from just about everyone... the implications! Also, why Sheanna as the "chosen" one specifically? I always thought it interesting that it was her and not Murbella (why stay and save the sisterhood?)

I wish he'd had time to write another 6 books!

Anyway, I could go on and on... =)

Re:dune

[sdjunky]

"but it seems to me that the ending of Chapterhouse is just too perfect"

Actually. If you look at when the man died (1986) not long after finishing chapterhouse and before it's publishing (July 1986) you can kind of tell that he knew he wouldn't be writing another book as he was finishing the sixth and just kind of tied things up quickly so as to not leave anything open ended.

I get the impression that he just kind of gave up on living or at the very least knew he didn't have much time. Chapterhouse near the end starts to seem that it is being rushed. Not as much lush detail in his words as in the beginning etc. Of course, this is my opinion and there are a million of 'em.

Re:dune

[starX]

I never thought of it that way; the destruction of Dune in the end of the 5th book always seemed to me to be a better fulfillment of Leto's plan: Humanity is now beyond prophecy because the origin of prophecy has been reduced to a molten rock. But I can definitely see your point about Chapterhouse.

Still, Chapterhouse feels almost as if it is grasping at threads the entire time, and the ending does seem like it wants to be a new beginning, and it might have worked better with a 7th book, but I guess I can't fault the man for dying.

So in an imperfect world I need to choose between thinking of book 5 of 6 as the end, or book 6, which feels more like the first part of an unfinished sequel to the series. But then again, some time back I think Tim O'Reilly made a good point; the last three books basically build off of and restate the lessons that we as readers, and Paul as character should have learned from the first, so maybe after Children of Dune they're all unnecessary.

But personally God Emperor is my favorite :)

Re:dune

[chrae]

Herbert got through six of the seven. His son has the notes for the seventh, and is preparing to butcher his father's legacy as he's done six times already with those godawful prequel books.

I second that opinion. Here is Frank Herbert's words about the writing of Dune.

• It was to be a story exploring the myth of the Messiah. It was to produce another view of a human-occupied planet as an energy machine. It was to penetrate the interlocked workings of politics and economics. It was to be an examination of absolute prediction and its pitfalls. It was to have an awareness drug in it and tell what could happen through dependence on such a substance. Potable water was to be an analog for oil and for water itself, a substance whose supply dimishes each day. It was to be an ecological novel, then, with many overtones, as well as a story about people and their human concerns with human values, and I had to monitor each of these levels at every stage in the book.

Frank Herbert had researched for six years before he even began putting the Dune story together. Much effort and creativity went into it, and the results reflect it. His son, Brian Herbert and another Kevin Anderson are busy milking the Dune legacy as we speak. They have already released 3 prequels, which takes place a generation before Dune. As a standalone series, they are mediocre at best. As an addition to his father's works, they are a travisty. The first of another 3 has been published, taking thousands of years earlier, during the Bulterian Jihad which is often, but vaguely referred to throughout the Dune series. It was terrible. It was painful to read. I could only manage to read a chapter a day (which is at most, about 5 pages) after which I'd put it down in disgust and be in a foul mood for a good 2 hours. Brian and Kevin have plans, after they poop out book 2 and 3 of the Bulterian Jihad, is to write two more triligies for a total of 12 prequel books. All will be released according do when it's most profitable. After then, will he set his sights on the big mother load itself, Dune 7. The book that Frank Herbert made outlines for, but died before he could write it.

That being said, SciFi's Dune mini-series is the last hope for many Dune addicts out there. Granted, hardcore readers of the book series will have quibbles with it, but Frank Herbert admitted that film is a language different from English, while working with David Lynch on Dune, the movie. Frank said, "[David Lynch] spoke it and I was a rank beginner. To make a film, you translate, as though from English to German. Each of the world's languages contains linguistic experiences unique to it's own history. You can say things in one language you cannot say in another." I'll keep this in mind, with SciFi's upcoming effort to adapt Children of Dune to the screen.

...

Looking back on it, I realize I did the right thing instinctively. You don't write for success. That takes part of your attention away from the writing. If you're really doing it, that's all you're doing: writing.

There's an unwritten compact between you and the reader. If someone enters a bookstore and sets down hard earned money (energy) for your book, you owe that person some entertainment and as much more as you can give. That was really my intention all along.

Frank Herbert, 1920-1986

David Lynch

[Bonker]

I have this love-hate thing with David Lynch movies. Most of them I hate, but even in the bad ones, you can tell that Lynch is really working his ass off stylisticly.

I didn't read Dune before seeing the David Lynch version. I still thought that it was a hell of a movie, despite its many problems. (I hate Kyle Mclaughlin almost as much as I hate Ben Affleck.) Even having read Dune, the Sci-fi mini-series just left me flat up next to the sheer style of the first movie.

Dissapointed That This is Non-Theatre

[mrs clear plastic]

As I read the article, it seems to me (and please
flame/correct me if I am wrong) that this is not intended for the movie theatres, but intended for television.

I strongly feel that these type of movies should be on the big screen. Even if there is no decent plot (and I know the Dune will have a plot), magnificent scenes should be seen on a large screen in a decent, comfortable theatre.

I remember the original Dune. I loved some of the epic scens on the large screen in a decent theatre
with a good sound system. In fact, even though I am not a Dunnite and did not understand the plot, I still sat through it twice just for the scenery.

I later saw portions on a TV screen. The small screen does not do this type of movie justice. Only if someone has a decent home theatre type TV system with a dedicated room and good sound would a Dune type picture be worth putting on TV.

I really feel that these folks should release the series into theatres and then make it available via DVD/tape for the TV crowd.

I apoligize in advance if I read the article incorrectly.

Mark

Dune Messiah?

[Adolatra]

Wasn't Children of Dune the third book in the saga? Are they planning on incorporating it with Dune Messiah (which would be more than a little tricky, IMO), or are they simply going to skip the second book?

Re:Dune Messiah?

[Kaypro]

John Harrison, the screenwriter and co-producer answers (from here):

Q: What books does Children of Dune cover? Why not call it Dune Messiah?

A: After the enormous success of SCI FI's first Frank Herbert's Dune miniseries, SCI FI asked Richard Rubinstein and me to come up with a proposal for another. After a lot of thought and conversation, it seemed that the next books in Frank Herbert's epic presented unique adaptation opportunities as well as problems.

Dune Messiah by itself did not resolve completely enough to stand on its own; it set the stage for Children of Dune. But that third book couldn't be the basis for a new miniseries without the precedent of Dune Messiah. So I decided we should combine both books and create a continuation of the first miniseries. Simply put, Dune Messiah and Children of Dune would complete the saga of Muad'Dib and set the stage for what was to come.

There is a significant passage in Frank Herbert's Dune, spoken by Reverend Mother Ramallo, in which she tells Paul that "when religion and politics ride in the same cart, the whirlwind follows." Of course she means Muad'Dib -- he is the whirlwind. As Dune fans know, in Dune Messiah he is tortured by what that whirlwind has meant, of what has become of his revolution. And, as students of history, we know that "every revolution contains the seeds of its own destruction." In Children of Dune, those seeds have started to bloom. But there is an answer, a road that Muad'dib was unable or unwilling to take: the Golden Path. By the end of Children of Dune, Muad'dib's son, Leto II, is willing to go down that path.

So I decided to combine both Dune Messiah and Children of Dune into one seamless narrative that would complete this chapter of the Atreides on Arrakis and set the stage for the next 3,000-year era, the Golden Path, and the reign of the God Emperor.

For what it's worth

[IWantMoreSpamPlease]

I never read the Dune story. Doesn't interest me. I *did*, however see the Davis Lynch movie. It was fine. Some of the special effects blew, but that was to be expected. Last year I see the Dune mini-series.

Or tried to. Paul came off as a whiney spoiled brat and the costumes were *clearly* stolen from Liberace's closet.

My friend and I got about one hour into it before we'd had enough and put on something worthwhile.

No, this is not flamebait ot trolling, I'm stating a viewpoint. My viewpoint is the mini-series and I', sure the sequels aren't worth the time from a casual fan POV.

Re:Beating a Dead Horse?

[neurojab]

The over commercialization did harm to Star Trek? You must be joking. ST was designed as a purely commercial venture. It's first incarnation was a prime-time TV show designed to capitalize on the average joe's hunger for western themes. They just swapped in space as a setting after the Apollo project killed the target market's interest in the visual aspects of cowboys and indians. That said, I don't think it's possible to "commercialize" Star Trek.

I agree with your point though... the depth and character of Dune can only be poorly represented on the screen. On the other hand, I thought the same thing about the Lord of the Rings, but the Two Towers was very, very good.

Re:Linux?

[The Only Druid]

You're a fool. A notable point in Dune is that there are no computers. In fact, Herbert explains that millenia before there was a robotic revolution, leading to a banning of computers of any sophistication. The Mentats are human computers, performing such calculations, although they are an industrial society. Spaceflight is accomplished through the mental powers of Navigators to bend space.

Your post was completely off-topic and irrelevant.

Sorry if this is harsh, but you shouldn't post just to post.

I thought they were cutting back?

[circusboy]

I just wish they had put some of this money into another season of farscape...

Read Dune, Then Stop

[Nova Express]

Its easy to understand why Sci-Fi would make a miniseries of Dune, since it's a great book. Were it not for Hollywood's sequel mentality, it would be a lot harder to understand why they're making a miniseries of Dune Messiah and Children of Dune (which Sci-Fi is mashing together for the Children of Dune miniseries), which are not great books by any stretch of the imagination.

Here's some advice for those who haven't read any of Herbert's many Dune sequels yet: Don't. Not only were they not as good as the original, they weren't even in the same league. If you ask just about any serious science fiction reader, they'll tell you the same thing: Read Dune, then STOP! Dune Messiah sucks, Children of Dune sucks less than Dune Messiah, but still isn't a tenth as good as the original, and God-Emperor of Dune sucks the farts out of dead cats.

If you can just pretend that Herbert never wrote anything after Dune, you'll avoid wasting your time reading inferior sequels and tarnishing your memories of the original.

Re:Read Dune, Then Stop

[Alea]

One of the most interesting things about the Dune series is that it's one of the only series where I don't meet with a general consensus on the quality of the various books. I've met people whose favourites were the first, third, fourth and sixth. Even rankings after favourites aren't consistent. How many novel series do you know where most people don't agree, "The first one was best and blah, blah, blah....".

Don't blindly accept the parent poster's judgement. Even if general experience suggests that sequels are often weak, Dune is a series where I have specifically noticed this odd exception.

Re:Last Dune Series

[RhetoricalQuestion]

I agree. I liked the last Dune mini-series, but primarily because the adaptation was more faithful and the writing itself was better. Paul was better cast (and a better actor). Leto wasn't as well cast; he didn't seem as regal as he did in the movie. I don't recall having a strong opinion on the other cast. (Though I missed seeing Patrick Stewart.)

The portrayal of the Harkonnens was also FAR better. In the mini-series, they cunning, conniving and evil. In the movie, they were just gross.

Biggest problem in the mini-series, though, were the visuals. The sets (particularly the desert) looked fake. The costuming looked cheap -- especially compared to the movie, which had great costumes.

Still, looking forward to this... when/if it comes on Space.

Re:Last Dune Series

[Justarius]

Give the guys some credit,eh? The SciFi channel isn't a move production studio nor does it make the millions that Universal or whatever makes. They're at least making an effort to actually adapt decent SciFi for mass consumption.
How many people do you know has *even* read Dune or, for that matter, Children of Dune? I've read both of them, watched both versions of Dune, and each has their strengths and weaknesses.
If we're going to nitpick, I'll say this :: the casting on the SciFi miniseries was much better done and the dialogue was much better. It did miss some of the scenes that are in the book and adapted others (for example, the hunter-seeker scene in Arrakeen). The Lynch version I think touched upon the mystic of the entire thing much better than the SciFi, but the SciFi version made a better emphasis on the political nature of it all.
Neither are true to the book anyway.

Hopefully, Children of Dune (which is the destruction of Paul's dream and Aila's nightmare) will be done in the same spirit and I can understand the pitfalls of smaller studios - at the end, it's how much money do you have to burn for the production?

Cheers...

TMBG

[fleck_99_99]

I didn't like the last one, and yet I was drawn to it... Too big a fan of the series, I suppose.

The costumes were OK, but can someone PLEASE smack down the hat designer? The big floating sail covered with butterflies was a bit much, and every time Feyd walked onscreen with that ridiculous triangle behind his head, I had to start singing..

Triangle man, Triangle man...

*Hollywood's* sequel mentality????

[HarveyBirdman]

How about Brian Herbert's sequel mentality?

Who needs Hollywood when your own offspring will milk your legacy until it withers and dies- oh, wait, it already HAS withered and died. I guess now the appropriate cliche would be "beating a dead Shai'Hulud" which is something many of you guys out there can relate to. Hoo hoo!

Further sequels from Hollywood:

The Color Of Dune: a pool shark hits Arrakis and comes within one step of hustling the trust deed to the palace. Muad'Dib manages to weirding his way around a tricky three ball combination to win the day. Stars Tom Cruise as the dumb guy.

Look Who's Taking Dune: Yet more children are exposed to their ancestral memories in the womb, and squirt their way out into the new world chatting up a storm and calling storms down from the skies. Stars John Travolta as the dumb guy.

Dune - The Revenge: Ravenous sand sharks infest the deserts of Arrakis. A malfunctioning transport full of children and Bene Gesserit nuns (or whatever) is stranded in the middle of the Great Erg, and hilarity ensues! Starring Owen Wilson as the dumb guy.

Dune 3 - Cruise Control: Muad-Dib must somehow rescue a band of Fremen from the back of a bezerk sandworm rigged to explode if it's speed drops below 50 mph! Starring Keanu Reeves as the really dumb guy.

Dune & Robin: Arrakis. Schumacher. Show tunes. Do the math. The horror... the horror...

The Quisatz Haderach's New Groove: Muad'Dib is transformed by a nanotech accident into a llama, and hilarity ensues.

ObBeowulf: Soon they will have enough sequels for a Beowulf cluster. Ha ha. :-\

All links

[Knacklappen]

Why to waste time with all those JavaScript-popups, here are the real links:
TCA trailer
Whirlwind
Boys to Men
Alia
Teaser

Re:I'll use small, easily understood words

[TheRaven64]

You probably like ... Anne McCaffrey novels.
Actually, I do. They're entertaining. I would not even dream of putting them in the same category as Dune though. I have read Dune and Children of Dune about 20 times (the others in the series less so). I can't off hand think of any other book I've read more than three or four times, they really are outstanding. On the other hand I can't even bring myself to read the Prelude series a second time, and the Butlerian Jihad has convinced me I can spare myself additional pain by not buying any more of them. They have Kevin J. Anderson's trademark style:

1. Set the scene
2. Go on about the scene a bit more
3. Add some gratuitous action which moves the characters a lot without actually moving the plot anywhere
4. Get bored and fill in the end with meaningless drivel

The only one of his books I would consider recommending is Blindfold (which steals most of it's best parts from Dune).

The Butlerian Jihad is really not worth the paper it's printed on. It's second rate space opera, nothing more, where the original books were a rich tapestry of conflicting emotional, personal, religious and ploitical agendas all woven together into a cohesive whole. If you couldn't follow the plot then I suggest you stick to books with big text, adn brightly coloured pictures. If you want space opera, I'd recommend E. E. 'Doc' Smith's books, but don't expect great literature.