Buying a Small, Light Linux Notebook Computer?

metamatic asks: "I'm planning to buy a notebook computer in the near future. Currently I'm looking at an iBook; however, they're a bit larger and heavier than I'd like. PC users are always telling me that PCs are faster and cheaper, and I'd be happy enough running Linux for what I want the notebook for. So: I'm looking for PC notebook computers that outperform the iBook. Must have USB and Firewire, built-in ethernet, and 802.11b support somehow (via a PC card slot is OK). Small is important, lightweight is important, long battery life is important. I don't care about screen size so long as it can do 800x600. Performance isn't a major concern, as I'm not going to be playing 3D games on it. Sounds easy? Here's the catch: I will not purchase Windows!" After all that this industry has gone through in recent years? Does one still have to pay the Microsoft tax when purchasing a laptop?

"I have no Windows software and will not be running any, not even via WINE. I have no desire to go through the hassle of purchasing software I'm not going to use and then fighting to get a token rebate that doesn't actually equate to the cost of a Windows license. Nor am I interested in buying a machine that was purchased with a Windows license, and simply having Windows erased with no refund given.

So far I've found iDot Computers, who will sell laptops with no OS installed. Unfortunately, their lightest, smallest offering is a hefty 2.8kg brick, 3cm bigger than the iBook in width and depth. What I really want is something comparable to a Toshiba Libretto or Sony VAIO R505--except that neither of those companies want to sell me a machine without Windows.

I'm sure plenty of Slashdot readers have faced the same problem--what's the solution?"

Comments

Fujitsu P2000 Series

[YokuYakuYoukai]

These are great cursoe based laptops and becides the software based modem everything is linux compatible.

here is a Link to the fujitsu website for it.

i have an older version with a slower 800mhz processor and 4 megs of video ram. it struggles with the latest divx encodes unplugged, but plugged in they display fine. The best feature is its real life 8-10 hour battery life. i could never go back to a 2 hour laptop.

Re:Knoppix.

[inflex]

Be prepared for a lot of sales people to go "Sorry, we cannot allow you to boot that CD".

Kind of ironic that you're not permitted to 'test' the machine you're about to fork out several thousand dollars for.

When I was last searching for a laptop I encountered this brick-wall mentality, consequently I ended up telling them "Oh, in that case, no sale, goodbye" ( Commissions obviously doesn't exist in sales any more ).

As for the reasoning behind the no-fiddle mentality, it's because they're afraid that you'll install some sort of hacker software.

I'd say local connections helped G get his refund.

[Anonymous Coward]

Folks, Adelaide is a city with a "small town"
mindset... you know the one: "everybody knows
everybody"

I'd bet that G's dad's Cisco connections did
more to get G the cheque from Toshiba than
anything else, even if the dad in question
didn't have to lift a finger to make it happen.

I don't think that the not-so-well-connected
(read: needy, eg, student of Linux) computer
buyer would get the same hearing - let alone
a similar refund.

To test this: How many -other- Australians
managed to win similar refunds, at about the
same time (ie, even -after- G's [uncashed]
refund cheque was photographed & published
online)?

Not too many...

"Plenty of good info"...? Doubtful at best.
How good depends on how many, who do similar
footwork, will -ever- get -their- refunds,
in future.

Good means effective, not just -apparently- so.

Now, if someone had complained (eg to Oz's
ACCC), eg that vendor(s) were requiring them
to buy unwanted product/license/software from
another source, ie just to get the chance to
buy the computer they wanted to purchase...
-that- might have got a refund-right for every
Linux user.

But, no, that wasn't how G did it... He stopped
when he could show (without cashing) the photo
of his refund check... let the others do their
own haggling...

Read: Re-Invent the refund [paper-chase] wheel!

Result: -Lots- have visited the online photo
of the uncashed check but -few- have
got a refund of their own.

Com'on people, the only way to change this
is to work a bit smarter... & together... ie,
if you want to win, not just cheer-lead... ;-)

Obligatory Powerbook answer

[Jimithing DMB]

It's been said, but not like this.

Look, what you really want is a PowerBook. You know it, everyone here knows it. You just won't admit it.

So let's compare features. The Apple certainly has no potential whatsoever of running Microsoft Windows except through some complete emulation/virtualization software. Score one for Apple. The Apple comes with an actual GUI far superior to Microsoft Windows (not even a contest) and much more polished than your typical UNIX GUI. Score another (or a couple) for Apple.

Want more? Well, your Mac is actually capable of running Microsoft Office should you later find yourself in a bind and be REQUIRED to deal with it to put food on the table. On the plus side, you can always pirate it and you don't need Windows or Windows emulation software to run it. That's worth about a half a point (MS Office isn't that great in my book). Your Mac will also be able to run just about any open source program you want. Furthermore, Apple has now even decided to provide an official version of X11 which they have even extended to allow full access to the OpenGL extensions. That means that you can create "lickable" GUIs using the X Window System.

But even if you don't want to run Mac OS X (and trust me, you will), you can always run Linux on it. There are several very good quality PowerPC distros available. Furthermore, even if you go this route, it still doesn't preclude you from running MacOS X (or 7 8 or 9 for that matter) using the mac on linux software.

And on top of all of that you'll be supporting a company who actually understands that it is customers that drive the bottom line; a company that creates GUIs that even your mom can understand, GUIs that actually make sense and help you get on with what you are trying to do-- especially if you are a hard-core geek.

So please at least consider the Powerbook. It's a sleek machine, it's extremely solidly built (well, the 12" model I hear leaves something to be desired, but the rest are excellent). It comes with a good OS. You can run Linux on it. And you're not supporting a company that supports Microsoft. In fact, you are supporting a company that actually competes with Microsoft (on some small level). A company whose CEO made a little deal with Microsoft and got a lot of gain for very little (putting MS IE in as the default browser, BFD).

In short: you know you want it dude!

Re:Emperor Linux

[Fnkmaster]

Actually, you are paying a hell of a lot more. For example, check this out: Ibex. This is a Sony Vaio VX-89 with Linux pre-installed. EmperorLinux charges $2050 for it. Here on the other hand, we have the same product available for $1399. That's right, it's $650 cheaper.

If that's not a fuck job, I don't know what is. I mean, the evidence here clearly supports that A) when you buy an EmperorLinux laptop, you are clearly still paying the Microsoft tax - they are just wiping Windows XP off of it (or you can still get it dual boot if you want it as such). And B) you are paying a shit price. The worst retail price online I found for the VX-89 was around 1700 dollars. So why not just suck it up and accept that the MS tax is unavoidable for laptops, and buy a decent laptop you like?

I understand the idea of voting with your dollars, but it doesn't get through to the shitheads at Sony corporate since they are still shipping a Vaio with Windows license to some schlocky overpriced "Linux" reseller. Or find a source of laptops that truly doesn't include the MS tax (they do exist, but I don't know of any super lightweight ones).

Don't you pay anyway?

[Kamel Jockey]

Microsoft site licenses usually require companies to pay for machines which don't have Windows on them. I can only imagine that Microsoft makes the same requirements on computer vendors when they sell machines without Windows, or with some other OS. So even if you buy a new machine without Windows, you will probably still be lining Microsoft's pockets buying such a machine.

And as another poster mentioned, you will probably spend way more money buying such a machine from some no-name vendor (and still pay the Microsoft tax) compared to the cheaper price of a name-brand laptop with Windows pre-installed.

One alternative for the poster is to sell a $50 pen with a free copy of Windows included :)

My experience with Dell refund

[nurd68]

They basically ignored me until I told them that I would never buy a Dell again. (Which has more to do with poor design (who puts the hard disk and cdrw on the same ide controller?) and poorer customer service (they refused to sell me a replacement video card, so I bought one from ebay). Piggybacked on to this was the "whom do I email about returning this bundled software", and they completely ignored that question.

So, this is what I did.
1.) Don't boot the software.
2.) Don't open the software.
3.) Since you have not agreed to these licenses, the "thou shalt not resell this" does not apply to you.
4.) So, I resold the license to a guy at work for $50. (There was no real OS CD, just a recovery disk. However, he had one already, so I just sold him a license).
5.) In theory, you could sell this on ebay, but I've heard of MS using its' clout to pull those ads.

Of course, there is another reason to actually fight with the OEM - MS can no longer publish those "we run on 95% of all consumer PC's sold", when what really happens is that many people wipe the disk and install another OS. (I'd call it perhaps 25% dual boot, and maybe another 10% just do 1 OS.)

Re:I smell a rat

[Landaras]

I don't think we're being exploited by a markup, as long as the vendor provides the following:

• Your preferred distro installed and fully tested. I would expect all hardware to work as well or better than it would under Windows
• Popular software (possibly some non-gratis stuff like StarOffice or Loki game ports thrown in) installed and configured. Even automated installs can take time, and fixing dependencies can be a pain in the rear
• Professional tech support on par with the major Wintel OEMs

You don't always get that by buying a notebook off the shelf and installing Linux yourself. For some people and/or businesses, it might be worth the markup to receive the hardware and know that it's already set up, everything works, and help is just a phone call away.

Re:I smell a rat

[MarcQuadra]

That's evidence that the system has broken down. It costs more to buy a product WITHOUT the monopoly OS than with it. You have to pay a premium to get a machine with Linux (a free OS) or no OS at all. The ill effects of a monopoly are starting to really show through now, and we're all just sitting here TAKING it and SUPPORTING it with every x86 PC purchase.

I'm moving to PPC/Linux.

Re:Emperor Linux

[grammar nazi]

"If you knowingly buy Windows, you are telling the market "I like Windows!" Whether or not you actually like the OS is irrelevant - you are voting with your money."

Although I agree that you are voting with your money, your assumption, ATMAvatar, isn't exactly correct. You are telling the market, "either I like Windows, or, I like the hardware and care about hardware more than software." The difference between my statement and your statment is the reason that Microsoft spends so much to insure 100% OEM compliance.

"When you can no longer buy computers without Windows, you have lost the most basic right of a consumer - the ability to choose what product you spend your money on."

I would argue differently: When you can no longer buy computers without Windows, the market for computers without Windows is too small/unprofitable for a company to take advantage of. I love it when people say, "Microshit is junk/sucks/etc." I always respond that Microsoft must be doing something right, because 90%+ of desktop computers around the world run Windows. There's a obviously a *market* for Windows software and with 90%+ of market penetration, I'd say that Windows is excellent (there's not many products and industries with marketshare like that).

In a "Democratic" society, the citizens should be making the laws. I get scared when the RIAA, BSA, MPAA has so much lobbying power, because by changing the laws, these companies can make our markets innefficient. However, I'm happy with our capitalist society as it is right now. Even though Microsoft commands a vulgar profit margin on each copy of WindowsXP that it sells (a sign of an inefficient market), I understand that software is a commodity and in the long run (10 years? 5 years?), Microsoft is royally screwed with respect to operating system software. The same holds true for office/productivity software. I kind of feel sorry for them, since the best they can come up with is "XBox".

the dumb answer...

[nehril]

Must have USB and Firewire, built-in ethernet, and 802.11b support ... Small is important, lightweight is important, long battery life is important. I don't care about screen size ... Performance isn't a major concern... don't play games ... will not pay for windows

uh, get an ibook? oh wait...

seriously, ibook + osx + fink + apple X11 == everything you want in a linux laptop, except for the ugly fonts. If you're dying for more speed get the new 12" G4 Powerbook (~$1700), which is just like the ibook only smaller in every dimension, and faster.

why exactly does your current ibook fail your requirements, anyway?

make a statement- give to GNU and EFF

[call -151]

As has been pointed out, you pay a premium of $500-$1000 over commodity laptops for the privledge of not buying Windows. This stems from the different rates MS charges different size retailers. If you do buy a "Windows- free" machine from a Linux laptop specialist, probably they bought the laptops from HP or Toshiba and already paid their $15-50 to MS anyway, so it's not like you are keeping any money from going to MS.

If you want to make a statement by spending an extra $500- $1000 just to not have Windows, fine. I suggest you can make a more effective statement by just getting the commodity laptop and giving the $500+ you save over an allegedy "Windows-free" machine to GNU, BSD, and/or EFF, depending upon the particular point you are trying to make.

If you truly want to avoid money going to MS, just get an iBook ( or Powerbook if you can swing it.) Those are great, sturdy, well-arranged machines. Actually, I'm not sure how sturdy the Powerbooks are but the iBooks are unbelievable and really are made for 12-year olds as far as being tossed in backpacks and so on.

What about the Sharp SL C700 ?

[Uzull]

Preinstalled with linux, subnotebook format...
It's just an idea...

Re:Metamatic - your answer.

[Glonoinha]

I have watched the resale of Dell hardware intently for quite some time. They suffer the same problem all resellers have : the old stuff doesn't depreciate as fast as the price on new stuff comes down.

One year old Inspiron 8200 top of the line : 1GHz w/ 20G drive = current ebay price $900.
Brand new entry level Inspiron 2650C : 1.6GHz w/ 20G drive = current new price $750.