Slashdot Mirror
EU Agrees to Give Passenger Data to U.S.
de la mettrie writes "The EU Commission has agreed in principle to make airlines provide U.S. Homeland Security with detailed passenger data for flights to the USA. Things Uncle Sam would like to know about passengers include their itinerary, their credit card number and whether or not they asked for a meal without pork. The data are supposed to help prevent terror attacks and are to be 'handled appropriately'." The U.S. is collecting the data for a massive passenger database, intended to increase passenger profiling.
I'm sorry, where in the article does it say that? Although I'm leery of the gubm'int profiling me, we shouldn't be saying things that aren't true just to make our point.
Not to be a nitpick, but I try to correct this whenever I see it--it's an "Arab descent." Arabic only means the language and has no relation to being an Arab (as MANY non-Arabs speak Arabic as their first language).
...and those who are moderating them up, nothing was said in the article about meal choice, and at least it seemed to me that the implication was that the credit card numbers just happen to be part of the record; they're not specifically being asked for. (Of course, I do wonder why they need the full record, and can't just extract the necessary information and leave the CC #'s and such out of it.)
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
Does this sort of thing drive the rest of you as nuts as it does me? I'm a 20 year old, white male, who happens to look "punk" (dyed hair, dark clothes, stuff like that). I cant go NEAR an airport, without being stopped by security about a dozen times. I'm always the one singled out to have his luggage checked, and I'm always the one inconvenienced.
I'm _NOT_ a terrorist. Is it just me, or have most airport security guards seen a few too many bad movies? Here's a tip for you guys: the terrorists will PROBABLY not be dressed or otherwise look anything other than ordinary. People who are going to do bad things generally try not to draw attention to themselves.
I think we could all save ourselves a lot of grief if airport security was given a vaguely realistic training session.
Airlines keep the information, obviously.
Including things like ticket, method of payment, meal choice etc..
Its the fact that the EU is agreeing to allow airlines pass that information to the US. It is essentially a temporary deal until proper legislation can be brought in to support it. Unlike the US the EU has Data Protection laws that make it illegal to maintain personally identifiable data on someone without:
a) registering with the data protection registrar,
b) having good reason for having that data (and permission),
c) maintaining security of that data,
d) keeping the data no longer than necessary and
e) not sharing the data without permission (aside from legal considerations)
Also data on you is available for a nominal fee and should they have no reason for holding the data then they can be prosecuted (I believe it can be a criminal offence - although I'm not sure, that might just be if you don't register...), and you have the right to alter inncorrect data (although you might need a court to decide what is correct).
This tends to allieviate privacy concerns, and without this deal / legistlation the information could not legally be passed to the US.
Being a citizen in a country that is a member of the EU, I much prefer the Data Protection laws to nothing, it gives me a legal recourse into my credit record, into idiot companies sharing personal data on the web, etc.
Z.
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This is an interesting data point to want to collect, but how much does it really mean? Both Islam & Judaism shun pork, but only the former are "known" to be the bomber type.
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Actually, before the creation of Isreal in the 1940s, the Jews were every bit as terroristic as the Palestinians are today. In fact, they were very good at it. Of course, once the Jews got what they wanted (a country), they stopped.
Question is, what is it the muslims really want, i.e. what will it take to stop them?
Not that I think this pork thing is a good idea - it's dumb for all the reasons you point out.
Government IS the problem.
Things Uncle Sam would like to know about passengers include their itinerary, their credit card number and whether or not they asked for a meal without pork.
None of the posted links suggests that food profiling would be used. Also, the third link to the CAPPS II program is misleading because it hasn't been approved yet.
I am just curious is all. On my last trip home from England, British Airways mistakenly classified me as a vegitarian.
Enjoy,
It's just the normal noises in here.
Part of the problem with doing that is that most of the airplane's fuel will be spent by the time they reach their destination. On 9/11 the terrorists picked the flights they did because they were all loaded with fuel, ready to goto the west coast. When they hit the WTC this fuel burned extremely hot and eventually caused the collapse due to heat damage.
Not that a crashing airplane with only a little fuel wouldn't be a problem, though...
Sanity is not statistical.
...does not necessarily imply "journalism".
As a number of folks have mentioned, the article notes nothing about requesting pork. To enlighten our slashdot editors such that they might device not to embellish future stories, let me explain why.
Yes, muslims do not eat pork. And yes, anyone who is sufficiently religious to consider it a good idea to die in a suicide bombing for one's faith is very likely to be sufficiently religious not to eat pork.
That said, nobody cares about pork. There's two reasons. The first is false positives. While it takes a pretty screwed up fanatic to be a suicide bomber, there are many people who actually do follow the peaceful teachings of Islam who aren't screwed up but don't eat pork. [0] Couple that with the fact that Jews also eat no pork, and there's a haystack of people who don't eat pork. A religious extremist mad suicide bomber type would be one hell of a hard needle to find.
The other reason is that religious extremist mad suicide bombers are misguided, not stupid. If somebody knows that porkless meals are a red flag, he's not going to order a porkless meal. When the stewardess shows up, he's simply going to say, "no, thank you. I'm not really hungry today" or he'll hand it to the fifteen year old kid in the next row. If you're planning on going to meet Allah tomorrow, well, he's not going to mind if you're a little hungry when you get there. Besides, I'd bet a guy like Allah's got a heavenly catering service.
Since it doesn't take a hell of a lot of thought to realize that pork's irrelevant, it really makes one's position look weak when one has to make stuff up to bolster it. While journalists have been slanted since journalism began, please do realize that your point is driven home much better when you simply present the facts, and don't feel a need to make them up.
[0] Yes, I know. "Aren't screwed up but don't eat pork." Yes. Even bacon. It sounds insane, doesn't it? But I assure....
mmmmmm.... bacon....
Many of us are getting tired of it as well.
I found the meaning of life the other day, but I had write-only access.
Comments are due by Monday (Feb. 24) on the Department of Transportation's proposal for a "system of records" tracking massive amounts of information about every air traveler. The proposal is extremely broad and vague, and they are requesting exempt from the requirements of the Privacy Act -- so you would not be allowed to see information is stored about you, or challenge correct incorrect information. Comments must be mailed (not faxed or e-mailed), so get them out quickly to ensure they arrive by Monday.
PrivacyActivism (http://www.privacyactivism.org) has a page (http://www.privacyactivism.org/Items/63) with more information and a sample comment letter.
The data are supposed...
Thank you for being one of the very, very few people who realize that the word data is in fact plural! I am so tired of seeing "This data is..." and "the data shows..."
datum is singluar.
data is plural.
Data is a Soong-type android.
Thanks.
rooooar
...of the tools for an airline I won't precise and I will try to remain anonymous thank you. The article don't mention pork but what they have access [the US custom] is what we call the PNR or Passenger Name Record (english acrnoym so I may be wrong on the translation) which include : the meal, the inbound the outbound , the credit card, and soon with APIS the passport number , Everything which has somehow be written in your PNR will be comunicated. E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G. Get it ? So if it is written you asked for an HAJJ meal well it is written there. Ig you travel in group with friend it is written there. If you came from (let us say) Irak as Inbound it is written there. Trust me , I program for those things as a living.
check out http://www.airlinemeals.net/ for reviews of in-flight meals! Use it to choose the next airline that you use!
--jeff++
ipv6 is my vpn
Here's the short version. Oprah Winfrey got dragged into a lawsuit over a show she did where she looked into the possibility of people getting Creutzfeld-Jacob Disease from eating Mad Cow Disease-infected beef. In Texas there is a law on the books, colloquially referred to as the "Veggie Libel Law" which makes it a punishable offense to defame the Beef industry. Oprah prevailed, but she had to spend tons of money and temporarily move her show to Texas to answer the lawsuit.
"But you've already got a DVD. It lasts forever....In the digital world, we don't need back-ups..."
-- Jack Valenti
Yeah well I have a very very deep understanding of Islam and more than a passing understanding of the situation and I have to tell you ... you're way off.
If you just listen to what the terrorists have always said that they want, you would know that they couldn't give a damn about us if we just bud out of their part of the world.
You got that right!
I'm an American citizen who has been living in Mexico for the last 7 years. I have a special document given to me by the Mexican government which is essentially my Visa. It has my picture, my Mexican address, my fingerprint, the specific business which I may conduct in Mexico, and for how long. And every year I have to go in to the Mexican INS and renew it. When I got married, I had to inform Mexico. When I moved after getting married I had to tell Mexico within 30 days what my new address was. If I change employers, I have to tell them.
This is pretty standard stuff, guys. Borders must be protected, even before 9/11. What scares me isn't that the INS is asking for this information now, what scares me is that they WEREN'T before. It appears that MEXICO keeps better track of foreigners in their country than the INS was keeping track of within the U.S.
Sheesh!
Israel's Ben Gurion Airport is VERY secure for good reason. I have been through it a few times. They do not let you get away with anything there. I had a suvinear knife (not sharp at all) that I had gotten at one of those little tourist trap places. The security guards had me check it in regular baggage or i could not bring it out of the country. Now, I am an Israeli and a US citizen, and that is how I was searched. (This was two years before 9/11)
Israel also runs the most secure airline in the world. There is a reason that somone tried to shoot an El-Al Flight down with a ground based missle a while ago, because any action on th aircraft would have been futile. El-Al has at least 2 members of the IDF (Israeli Defense Forces) on each flight and they are armed. In addition, the doors to the flight deck are bulletproof and only openable from the inside. The last time someone tried to hijack an El-Al flight, he was shot and killed before he got anywhere.
One thing that makes El-Al and Ben Gurion so secure is that they do not follow these "fair" american practices. For one, they check EVERYONE for dangerous object such as knives. In addition, they do backround checks on those they think may be dangerous, honestly mostly arabs. They will prevent people with ties to known terror groups in Israel from flying. All the 9/11 terrorists were suspects in our databases before the terror attacks. If we ran our airports with the security seen in Israel, 9/11 may not have happened.
As for renewing with them, basically it seems to be a source of income for them. I pay about $150 each year to renew my visa. They pretty much rubber-stamp the authorization. I asked the people at their INS office once if I could get turned down and the lady told me that as long as I hadn't gotten in trouble in Mexico in the previous year that renewal was pretty much guaranteed.
That said, they DO know where I live. Which is apparently more than we can say about the INS and foreigners in the U.S.