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Linux Xbox Project Seeks Microsoft Signature

silvaran writes "We've had several Microsoft posts, and here's another, from CNet News. The team behind the XBox port of Linux is seeking a digital signature from Microsoft to approve the XBox Linux project. This would allow it to run on an unmodified XBox. According to the article, "Microsoft will be eligible to apply for an award under this scheme if they approve Xbox Linux as a normal Xbox program."

13 of 449 comments (clear)

  1. Wow! They'd get $100,000! by burgburgburg · · Score: 5, Funny

    Microsoft spends more than that every day on sweat pads for Ballmer. I'm not holding my breath.

    1. Re:Wow! They'd get $100,000! by b0r1s · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And more importantly, they'd end up losing money on the deal.

      All of the console makers lose money on the consoles, and attempt to recover that money by licensing software titles.

      Signing the linux code so that it can run, free, doesn't pay the bills. It also encourages people to buy machines that will never be used to run licensed software titles.

      --
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    2. Re:Wow! They'd get $100,000! by ryants · · Score: 5, Funny
      sweat pads for Ballmer. I'm not holding my breath.
      Well, I am, and I'm over 500 km away from Redmond, WA.
      --

      Ryan T. Sammartino
      "Ancora imparo"

    3. Re:Wow! They'd get $100,000! by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 5, Interesting
      And more importantly, they'd end up losing money on the deal.

      1. The more they sell, the lower their per-unit cost.

      B. Even among those who buy one to run Linux will be some who also buy games. And further, as they already own an XBox they'll be less likely to buy a Playstation. repeat this enough times and suddenly one day it's a whole new 90% MS, 10% Others deal.

  2. This will never go through by ymgve · · Score: 5, Insightful

    since signing Linux means that ANY other application can be run on top of Linux (Think Wine, VMWare and so on..), which nullifies ALL of the controls Microsoft has put in place to make the console 'theirs'.

    It is like asking Microsoft to ship X-Boxes with a modchip mounted on it already. Hell will reach absolute zero, and Microsoft will STILL not touch this idea with a ten-mile pole.

  3. Not likely by Osty · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I read this open letter a couple days ago, and not only is it unlikely (understatement?) that Microsoft would take them seriously, the authors don't even really appear to care whether or not Microsoft agrees with them. The whole letter is interspersed with a number of jabs at Microsoft, which is not something that I would really consider wise if you want Microsoft to take you seriously. As well, they obviously don't understand the console video game market ("... Microsoft's deliberate design choices in terms of restricting the software that may run on an unmodified xbox ...", "Xbox Linux gives choices back to the user which Microsoft denies them ...", "In terms of our being an 'established game publisher' [19], members of our team have written games in the past, and our Xbox Linux distribution runs such fine games as 'Tux vs Clippy' [14], 'Tux Racer' [15], and 'Frozen Bubble' [16]," and so on). In a nutshell, they don't seem to understand that Microsoft has every right to restrict what software runs on their console (see Nintendo, Sony, Sega, et al). There's no "denial of choice" -- if you want a computer, don't buy an XBox. And writing a few amateur games does not give one the title of "established game publisher". Maybe "established game developer", in which case they could try getting into Microsoft's incubator program for developers with a good idea but no publisher, but that's not going to happen for the XBox Linux project.


    Microsoft is responsible for making sure that only quality software (err ... let's ignore stuff like Kabuki Warriors, eh? All consoles have to have their share of stinkers ...) is released for their console. Otherwise, we'd be right back in 1984 and the last video game crash. A major contributing factor was Atari's lack of certification for games, and the subsequent glut of pure crap. Do we want to go back to that? I know I don't.


    Finally, there are definitely piracy issues here. Right now, while it's not exactly difficult to modify an XBox, it's at least a small barrier of entry to the pirate underground. As well, it makes for a fantastic way to keep cheaters off of XBox Live. How simple would it be to write a small loader for copied games or cheats when you start from an open platform like Linux? If this gets certified (fat chance), the mod chip barrier to entry is no longer there, making it trivial to pirate games or cheat online. You can say what you will about piracy (piracy sucks, imho), but I think everybody will agree that online cheaters are teh suck.

  4. Re:In other news by Avakado · · Score: 5, Interesting

    given Microsoft's stance toward the GPL and Linux (one's a cancer, one's a threat)

    Microsoft actually distributes GPL software (see right column).

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  5. also sprach Blackley by wfmcwalter · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Two years ago I attended a talk at Stanford University's Computer Science department (non-coincidentally the Gates Building) given by Shamus Blackley, then head-honcho of Xbox.

    After his talk and demo, he was asked whether Linux would run on the Xbox (I think it was the first question asked). His answer (I'm paraphrasing) was interesting:

    1. in theory, yes (as it was intel/nvidia hardware)
    2. they wouldn't go out of their way to stop it
    3. but they did go out of their way to make the xbox hard to hack
    4. and he wasn't sure there was a way that, in the light of #3, that running it would be practical

    His talk hadn't mentioned code signing, so no-one asked him whether they'd sign a linux image. I figure he's right on that last point - it's easy to imagine a signed "aint-it-cool" general purpose linux image being quickly coopted into a wrapper that allowed copied games to be played.

    So perhaps the question should be "why would Microsoft _want_ to sign an Xbox linux image?". I doubt "so they can sell more Xboxes" is going to be persuasive enough.

    --
    ## W.Finlay McWalter ## http://www.mcwalter.org ##
  6. The actual letter... by malakai · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you're going to submit a story about a letter written to MS, please, LINK TO THE LETTER

    Can't hold the /. editors to fault with this, as CNet didn't link to the letter either.

    -malakai

  7. Catch 22 for Microsoft by Dynedain · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If MS does sign it...then they've legitimized their largest threat - bad for microsoft

    If MS doesn't sign it....clear case of MS using its monopoly in one market to attempt to dominate another = more antitrust lawsuits

    Its a no-win situation for MS.

    --
    I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
  8. "Truth is Stranger Than Fiction" - a new play by WankersRevenge · · Score: 5, Funny

    X-Box Linux: Can we run linux on the x-box?

    Slashdot Community:You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship. A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes...blah,blah,blah

    Microsoft::Um, okay

  9. Why it's not going to happen by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Here's why it's not going to happen: Microsoft is adamant that the XBox is NOT a PC. All of their PR so far has tried to distance the XBox as far away as possible from PCs. It runs Windows, but you never see the traditional Windows look or any reference to Windows or DirectX anywhere. Microsoft keeps their logo small and unobtrusive so people don't associate the XBox primarily with Microsoft and Windows. They even changed the shape of the USB ports on the front so that you can't plug in PC peripherals (including mice and keyboards), and they're not selling adapters. Microsoft wants everyone to think of the XBox only as a gaming device, never as a general-purpose computer. Signing Linux would run contrary to all their insisting that the XBox is not a PC. If you somehow ported Windows XP to the XBox, they wouldn't sign that either. The fact that Linux is GPL just makes that much less likely.

    --
    main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
    1. Re:Why it's not going to happen by erdna · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Agree.

      Even more importantly, you have to remember that most hardware in the console business is sold at a loss (and don't give me that ludicrous "Land of Gord" or whatever the hell that link is people like to use to "disprove" this assertion. Talk to some folks that actually work in the industry.)

      Anyway, the hardware is sold at a loss - especially initially. (With time, some of the console generations have been cost-reduced so this isn't the case.) Point is, Microsoft is doing the same thing any console manufacturer would - why sell hardware that doesn't in turn sell software? MS sells titles to make up the hardware loss - they're not going to be selling Linux anytime soon.