Secret Irish Data Repository Uncovered
topgold writes "During an initial public meeting yesterday, the Irish Justice Ministry revealed that for nearly a year, the Irish government has mandated all telecommunications operators store traffic information from every landline, fax and mobile phone call for at least three years. Irish Times journalist Karlin Lillington offers insights regarding this secret data retention regime in several national newspaper columns. A considerable citizen reaction is at the boiling point, stoked by a civil liberties discussion board and the rejuvenation of the Electronic Freedom Ireland citizen group. By law, the Irish government can deep-six any Cabinet discussions related to the 'deliberative process' and since this decision to retain phone records happened at Cabinet level, it could have remained hidden for more than five years."
I'm suprised that the ISP's did this for so long and the news didn't leak out.
"A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
If every bit going into the country had to be stored for 3 years, wouldn't they eventually run out of space for hard drives? I mean, the way storage density is right now, they can't possibly store EVERYTHING.
Banaaaana!
Slashdot is the first I've heard of it, and I pay reasonable attention to the main news services here in Dublin. It's a little premature to talk about considerable citizen reactions.
As background, the Minister in question is a PD, which makes him pretty close to holding views familiar to those in the US: I'm sure he'd be pretty comfortable in the right of the Democratic party or the left of the Republican, which makes him far right by European standards.
As far as I know, European legislators are working on the same for years now. In The Netherlands the government is working on legislation which also enforces a policy on ISP's to keep their traffic-data for years (currently the to-be-kept counters remains on 3 years). Fortunately, they are listening (or at least pretending to listen) to the ISP's as well; we have been asked what kind of impact that would have on the ISP and what kind of technical measures would be necessary.
An odd thing is that in some countries it currently is illegal to keep traffic-data for such a long time; the data is only to be kept for billing purposes and when that is done, the data must be deleted for privacy reasons.
I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.
What will this law change? Prior to this law, how long were records like this kept? I get the feeling this law won't change much. My question is why does the Irish government feel the need to ensure three years of record keeping? Why three years? Why at all?
**Bob Dylan says: You never ask questions when God's on your side.
lets put the argument this way.
there is a high probability that your itemised invoice is store a backup tape at the print vendor for a number of months, maybe even years.
there is a 100% probability that the billing system at the telco you use has ALL of the call records you ever made, on ANY network you may have made them (roaming or otherwise)
there is a very high probability that your call records generated by the switching platform the telco uses are stored and backed up accordingly.
most people who read slashdot know that backups are important for both data retention, financial auditing, and customer dispute purposes.
the real question i have, that none of the articles make clear is WHO stores this. if the goverment is intending on marshalling this information then there is a problem. asking the telcos is far more privacy friendly, but only just. chances are, they have this information anyway. is it really all the mess its blown up to be?
If you want to really scare yourself about this stuff, read the European Parliment report online here.
It covers in great detail the state of international communications intelligence, with a focus on Echelon (i.e. the UK/USA alliance secret communications interception system), and the related threats to freedom and economic competitiveness.
It's a big report, but its extremely comprehensive and honest. The kind of thing "M" gets to read in James Bond flicks.
It puts estimated numbers on how many phone calls, emails, web accesses, SMS messages, Faxes etc. are intercepted from different countries; and also describes how they acheive this.
I was very surprised how little attention it got from the media when it was published.
OK, from the article itself, it can be concluded that the author finds the Irish govt actions to be reducing the individual's right to communication privacy.
It can also be summarized that the Irish government is merely trying to protect the rights (and lives) of the general public considering the turbulent past of the Irish republic.
The question is, where do we draw the line in respecting individual privacy as well as safeguarding the interests of the public at large? Is there a "right way" to do this? I think that this issue is subjective in its essence. No one can tell you what info is private and what should be made known publicly. I bet almost nobody cares if you're having an affair with your neighbour's wife, unless of course the husband... or you/the neighbour is someone famous.
In these times of post-911... every western government is becoming paranoid especially when there's Middle Eastern/Arabic/Islamic people are involved. Deny it as much as you want, but deep down inside you know that this bigotry is true. How else can you explain an airport terminal shutdown just because an Arab sprayed perfume on himself as well as two immigration officers?
Just an example of how screwed the world has become... Now the internet (one of the biggest global hope as an instrument of international unity), as well as other forms of communications are being threatened by "perceived threats".
I'm all for the effort of combatting terrorism... but not at the extent of paranoid delusions that "the al-Qaeda has 0wned the Internet".
Welley Corporation - SLM Scammers
If *access* to the gathered information is regulated properly, I don't see a problem.
The Data Protection Commissioner has outlined some of the problems that exist with such a data retention scheme, even if access is "properly regulated".
Of course, one thing that no-one has mentioned yet is that if privacy is outlawed, then only outlaws will have privacy. I have a mobile phone - now that I know that all calls I make on that phone will be recorded and potentially used by law enforcement, I feel like going across the street to a public phone and making all my calls from there. I don't have anything to hide from the law, but if I happen to get caught up in some difficulties with the law, I don't particularly want the law to have unhindered access to all the details of what I use my phone for, as I use my phone for some very very personal things indeed. And that is the huge problem with this system - it is extremely easy for outlaws to defeat it - all that they have to do is to go "across the street" to a public payphone.
Have you considered the possibility that terrorism is directly related to political power? Could there be a connection, for instance, between US foreign policy and 9/11?
Thats NOTHING! In LA,CA the store all payphones!
Its a fact, its little known, but was one time announced in a front page story in LA Times, that "for security and the Drug War" every single call made from a pay phone in los angeles is permanently recorded and stored.
Their reasoning for this fascism, much like "echelon" is that they are not listening to these "public conversations" they are just storing them. Ha!
No on complains.
And you think thats sick, in San Francisco city (and extended city area of SF Airport), you cannot call vertain 800 numbers from any public payphone if the numbers belong to pagers.
Pagers are considerred "bomb detonators" and "drug mule contact tools" I guess. I have to BEG private citizens to let me use their restaurant phones.
America is much more evil than UK.
Also front page news in NYT newspaper one august yeasr ago revealed that its a fdederal law that 1% (yes one full percent) of all simultaneous calls made in San Francisco have the ability to be simultaneously stored digitally. ONE PERCENT!
At least its not 100% such as in pay phones. Are you one of the 1% this week?
Im guilty of not reading stories too, but this time it was even in the overview that it was PHONE lines.. and not 'traffic', only the actual connections that were being monitored..
Still a hell of a lot of data.. and yes suprising it didnt leak...
---- Booth was a patriot ----