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Dutch Wiretaps: Too Many To Bother Counting

Posted by timothy on from the just-trust-on-this-one-and-these-ones-too dept.

Brenno de Winter writes "While the U.S. wiretapped 1,350 phonelines, the Netherlands managed to wiretap approx. 10,000 phonelines in 1999. With the new Telecom Act the Dutch government could wiretap even easier and are doing it so much they cannot count it anymore. Bits of Freedom (BOF) requested statistics under the Dutch Freedom of Information Act and were denied it since it was to hard to gather the data. Even though telecom and internet operators regularly send bills for operational wiretapping costs, the ministry of Justice claims it doesn't keep account of the numbers. What scares you more a government that wiretaps or a government that wiretaps and doesn't know what it is wiretapping?"

7 of 57 comments (clear)

  1. Not Good.... by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Given that the US also has a population more than 15 times that of the Netherlands that means somebody living there is more than 100 times more likely to be wiretapped than in the US.

    That seems to be pretty incongruous for a country that prides itself on the personal freedoms of its citizens.

  2. Re:I Don believe this! by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've seen reports in a variety of places that wiretaps are far more prevalent in Europe than the US.

    I also remember a flap last year caused by the Dutch goverment requiring all ISPs to install wiretaps.

    The following is an article discussing some of the Dutch wiretaps issues:

    http://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@wasabis ys tems.com/msg02595.html

    If I were a European citizen I would be asking some question of my government.

  3. Re:I Don believe this! by maelstrom · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sorry, it is EU policy to encourage its citizens to ask hard questions of the American government and to question the freedom of Americans every chance they get. The theory goes if they are too busy out protesting how much of a cowboy Bush is being, they won't have time to realize how much their own rights are being systematically stripped away by the European governments and the European Union.

    --
    The more you know, the less you understand.
  4. it could be worse! by fogpilot · · Score: 2, Interesting

    some years ago the dutch telecomcompany and a technical university recorded ALL phonecalls from fixed (identifiable) lines during a six month period, to "research voice-printing and speech/pattern recognition". wonder what they are doing with that big fat and very handy database!

  5. Re:The U.S.A. is the converse of the Netherlands.. by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The Dutch people would be horrified at the prospect of that degree of home invasion by the authorities

    Then please explain how we have the Dutch authorities working hand-in-hand with the DEA conducting raids complete with 17 search warrants.

    http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/pressrel/pr112200. ht m

    I bet the real story is just like the wiretaps - Dutch citizens are brainwashed that their country is free when in fact the rate of government intrusion into their lives is much higher than they realize.

    The fact that the wiretap rate in the Netherlands is 100 times higher than the US per capita really should be a warning that you may need to rethink your assumptions.

  6. Re:It's well-known by Badger · · Score: 2, Interesting
    It's the country most lived in and hated by vocal Slashdotters -- most of the non-vocal probably disagree, with the vocal ones, but who can prove that, either way. (I am not the typical vocal Slashdotter, when it comes to my views of the U.S. Perhaps, warts and all, I love my country more than most.)
    It's a popularity thing. It's cool to bash the US and uncool to mention that other "civilized" countries might actually have problems of their own.

    Most non-vocal Slashdotters learned long ago that fighting "the cool thing" was swimming upstream. It's much easier to laugh and remember that if you aren't a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you aren't a convervative at 40, you have no brain.

  7. Re:Where are all the comments? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The Dutch make gentle fun of Belgium, which is a small country on our southern border. "How can you make a Belgian go mad? Put him in a round room and tell him there is a bag of fries in the corner."

    We also make (more serious) fun of Germany, which is a large country on our eastern border. Jokes tend to involve the second world war.

    We *never* make fun of the North Sea, which is a sea on our northern and western borders. It has invaded us too many times for us to make fun of.

    In truth, we like both the Belgians and the Germans (the generations that remember the second world war are dying, and the new generations do not feel any resentment or anger). We also like the North Sea, as long as it stays put.

    If pressed, most people here will confess to hating the French. As one of our government ministers said a few years ago: "French is a beautiful country. It's just a shame the French live there." Instant political fireworks ;-)

    As a rule, we like the USA, although we are a little bit peeved that you granted yourself the right to invade our country if any american soldiers ever end up in the International Court of Justice in The Hague. If you *do* decide to invade, please make sure you get the right coastal town - I live in the next one to the north, so this matters a lot to me.