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P2P Services Speak Out Against Gnutella2
An anonymous reader writes "Three leading Gnultella services voice their opinions on Gnutella2 or Mike's Protocol as they refer to it as. None of the three recognize Gnutella2 as true Gnutella and worry its propritary protocol will divide the Gnutella community. In the first interview Vincent Falco of BearShare contributes his thoughts. The second interview gets input from Greg Blidson of LimeWire, and Arno Steenbekkers from XoloX."
fp!
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This is what happened today on the gnutella developer forum:
Vinnie Falco (BearShare):
Without going into the details, this is a final punitive action.
I believe this action is justified for the following reasons:
- Misappropriation of gnutella2.com. The developer(s) of Shareaza had
time to correct this indiscretion, but that time has expired.
- Lack of specifications regarding MP. The developer(s) agreed to
publish some specifications but there are not. As a consequence, we
must rely on their accurate description on the behavior of MP
servents in a mixed world (in other words, one which includes
Gnutella servents such as BearShare). Unfortunately, the developer's
(s') track record(s) is/are very poor and therefore not trustworthy.
- Observed excessive network re-querying. This has been brought to
the developer's(s') attention but nothing has been done about it.
They have not acknowledged the defect or corrected it.
- Greedy network behaviors. Raphael has documented evidence that MP
Ultrapeers are not as effective as non-MP Ultrapeers, conferring an
artificial "advantage" (not sure if there really is one) to MP
searches.
- Negative marketing efforts, and fragmenting the Gnutella network.
The developer, through silence, encourages hostilities between users
of the various Gnutella servents. This hurts the network and stifles
growth for everyone. Furthermore, the developer(s) take everyone
opportunity to deprecate Gnutella (a brand which many dedicated
individuals have spent countless man-hours building up). Despite
this, the developer(s) continue to TAKE resources from the very
network they are deprecating.
- Communication obstacles. The developer(s) of Shareaza do not
maintain an open dialog with the rest of the community. It is
commonly agreed that this behavior is damaging for the network. We
have already seen a lack of communication's negative effects with
Qtrax and Morpheus. Even worse, the developer(s) let the users be the
mouthpiece of the application (specifically, Anenga).
- Irresponsible development. The developer(s) release products and
then go on vacation, become unresponsive, or become otherwise
unavailable. They lack the resources for sufficient testing, but have
the chutzpah to release a piece of code that can have a significant
impact on other vendor's servents. This is dangerous for everyone.
For those new to the GDF, or for those who have forgotten the old
Vinnie, I will now express my feelings in laymans terms.
I've tried being civil, and I've waited plenty of time. I've
contacted the developer and the users of the application in question
and spent countless hours trying to educate them about why these
behaviors are bad for the network and bad for the Gnutella community.
The following contains offensive language, highlight to read:
[flames=on]
WELL I AM FUCKING SICK AND TIRED OF WAITING FOR SOMETHING TO HAPPEN!
DO YOU HEAR ME? NO MORE SHAREAZA! SHAREAZA WILL BE BANNED! I DONT
CARE IF HE PUBLISHES THE SPECS, OR GIVES UP THE DOMAIN NAME! ITS TOO
GOD DAMN LATE! I'VE HAD ENOUGH! THAT ASSHOLE MIKE SHOULD TAKE HIS
SORRY SHITTY ASS OFF THE GNUTELLA NETWORK COMPLETE, STOP LEECHING
FROM UPSTANDING CITIZENS OF THE GNUTELLA COMMUNITY, AND CRAWL INTO A
HOLE AND DIE.
[flames=off]
Our goal is not to block Shareaza from the network, but rather to
give their users the worst possible experience so they will stop
using the application. I'll leave it up to your imagination as for
the methods we will employ.
I suggest other developers (LimeWire, GTK-Gnutella, Swapper,
Morpheus, et. al.) do the same.
This is kinda like that scene from Bloodsport when Tommy Chong killed
his opponent, and the three judges turned their back on him in
silence and dishonor, with the audience following suit. Gnutella
needs to turn its back on Shareaza.
Adam Fisk (LimeWire):
I have to admit that I find it continually astonishing how few
participants on this list bring up the importance of open protocols, and
what that's all about. I think it's because many of the people here are
not actively developing Gnutella clients. If you were, you would
realize that the way that MP was introduced made it completely
impossible for any of us to work on it or embrace it. Why? Because the
specifications were late, incomplete, and inadequate. Beyond that, MP
was dropped on the Gnutella world like a bombshell -- completely
catching everyone off guard, and completely shutting off any debate
about what a new protocol with a name like that should entail -- Mike
just chose it all on it's own.
Think about what this would mean if anyone in any other context did
something like this. In fact, it's what Microsoft does all the time --
polluting open standards with proprietary implementations to corner the
market. All I ask is that you pretend you had a fully mature Gnutella
client when MP came along. If you put yourself in that position, you
would realize, as I did, that MP was never intended for compatibility,
but was intended to give Shareaza a marketting and development advantage
over everyone else, to the detriment of open protocol development
everywhere and to the trust that ultimately underlies that development.
-Adam
John Marhsall, a.k.a. Swabby (Gnucleus):
quote:- Misappropriation of gnutella2.com. The developer(s) of
Shareaza had time to correct this indiscretion, but that time has
expired.
Registered Gnutella2 and offered it as a neutral place for development
and specs.
quote:- Lack of specifications regarding MP. The developer(s) agreed
to publish some specifications but there are not. As a consequence,
we must rely on their accurate description on the behavior of MP
servents in a mixed world (in other words, one which includes
Gnutella servents such as BearShare). Unfortunately, the developer's
(s') track record(s) is/are very poor and therefore not trustworthy.
The reason the rest of the specs have not been released is because of
the GDF's inability to comment on them in a technical context.
quote:- Observed excessive network re-querying. This has been brought
to the developer's(s') attention but nothing has been done about it.
They have not acknowledged the defect or corrected it.
Without true analysis this is still speculation.
quote: - Greedy network behaviors. Raphael has documented evidence
that MP Ultrapeers are not as effective as non-MP Ultrapeers,
conferring an artificial "advantage" (not sure if there really is
one) to MP searches.
Again there was no evidence to support this, mostly because there are
not many Shareaza ultrapeers to begin with. Most clients that are not
BearShare or LimeWire rely of Gnucleus or old Morpheus clients to get
their ultrapeer connection.
quote:- Negative marketing efforts, and fragmenting the Gnutella
network. The developer, through silence, encourages hostilities
between users of the various Gnutella servents. This hurts the
network and stifles growth for everyone. Furthermore, the developer
(s) take everyone opportunity to deprecate Gnutella (a brand which
many dedicated individuals have spent countless man-hours building
up). Despite this, the developer(s) continue to TAKE resources from
the very network they are deprecating.
Hard to say when Shareaza implements more gnutella proposals than any
other client.
quote: - Communication obstacles. The developer(s) of Shareaza do not
maintain an open dialog with the rest of the community. It is
commonly agreed that this behavior is damaging for the network. We
have already seen a lack of communication's negative effects with
Qtrax and Morpheus. Even worse, the developer(s) let the users be the
mouthpiece of the application (specifically, Anenga).
How would you feel if all your hard work and development was returned
by being shut out and slander based on everything but the technical
merits of your work?
[...]
No ones figured out that blocking doesn't work. BearShare ultrapeers
do not allow non-BearShare leaves. And because there are almost no
Shareaza ultrapeers out there, they just connect to Gnucleus, LimeWire
or Morpheus clients in leaf mode.
- John Marshall
Vinnie responds:
"......You could have just left it alone...but unfortunately you
decided to have yourself added to the...
[flames=on]
RETARD LIST! YOU F#$@ING IMBECILE! I DONT EVEN NEED TO ARGUE ON THE
MERITS WITH YOU, BECAUSE YOU ARE THE **ONLY** JACKASS WHO OFFERRED TO
IMPLEMENT G2 BEFORE THE SPECS WERE RELEASED! GUESS WHAT DUDE! YOUR
CLIENT SUCKS A BIG FAT DONKEY'S DICK! NO WONDER MORPHEUS DUMPED IT
LIKE THE STEAMING HALF COILED TURD THAT IT IS!
[flames=off]......."
My friend told us how he thought Mekhi Pfeiffer was so hot in 8 Mile and how he roared her name out when he reached his juddering orgasm.
We told him Mekhi Pfeiffer was in fact the black friend of Eminem in the film.
We found his dead body in the canal the next morning.
Me too!
But oddly enough, mine come out thin.
I guess daddy was right when he said "Damn boy! You're tight!"
and sometimes Mac. :)
hehe
Well, I do.
I think Gnome is better than KDE.
I've never tried Debian.
I like RedHat better than Mandrake
I still use windows
I tried Slackware once
I'm not a geek
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
Gnutella2 speaks out against P2P Services!!!