An XHTML Tutorial That Does Not Assume HTML?

stevelinton writes "I am looking for a tutorial similar to Dave Ragget's excellent HTML tutorial(s), but for XHTML 1.1. I am NOT looking for a "HTML to XHTML" conversion tutorial. I want to teach a class XHTML 1.1 from day 1, without assuming that they know any HTML at all. Does anyone know of such a thing?"

Comments

You can't learn XHTML without HTML

[_vapor]

I looked around for something like what you are looking for, and I found this. As I see it, the problem with your request is that XHTML is not a "language" in itself. XHTML is essentially an XML-ized form of HTML. When you are writing XHTML, you are still using HTML tags (aside from the XHTML DTDs and such); the difference is that you are following XHTML rules (i.e. all tags must be lowercase, they must be well-formed, you must close all tags, etc). That is why, I think, it is hard to find an XHTML tutorial that doesn't presuppose that you already know the essentials of HTML. My advice to you is that if you are going to teach XHTML from step 1, presupposing no HTML knowledge, the best way would be to teach HTML but require the students to follow XHTML's rules.

Re:You can't learn XHTML without HTML

[PeekabooCaribou]

I think the important thing about teaching XHTML is to avoid the mistakes of HTML. For example, if you're teaching XHTML, you don't want to spend a class teaching your students the ins and outs of table-based layout.

XHTML and HTML look similar, but the mindset of XHTML is completely different. Any XHTML course would have to emphasize CSS just as strongly. We're working towards seperation of content and style here. HTML assumes you're going to use linebreaks for formatting, and transparent GIFs for spacing, and dozens of other tricks that make all your pages a headache to work with.

Re:You can't learn XHTML without HTML

[lewp]

Perhaps IHBT, but oh well.

Lazy HTML users? Most of the HTML hacks that "lazy" designers use are to get around browser incompatibilities so their clients' complex layouts look correct in all the browsers their customers might be using.

You think people who design for a living wouldn't love to be able to just use CSS for everything and avoid nested tables and spacer gifs? Being able to run their page through the w3's validator and being positive it will work? Most of them are on cloud 9 that they can avoid font tags for the most part nowadays.

Creating a simple page with CSS handling all the layout questions and having it just work everywhere is a dream that most designers want to realize. The current practice of creating a site and testing it in NN 4/6/7, IE 5(Win/Mac)/5.5/6, and perhaps Opera and Konq depending on the client's requirements, then adjusting for one browser's quirks and testing everything again is certainly not something designers enjoy. Unfortunately, the people who sign the checks don't so much care about clean HTML code as they do their pretty layout working in every browser they might use no matter how decrepit it is.

Re:HTML is just used in a wrong way ..

[Khalidz0r]

Well,

XHTML provides long term durability because of its strict rules, WHICH ALSO apply to HTML,

XHTML used nowadays still doesn't depend on real XML, it is still only based on the rules,

Stuff you are talking about is still to come in the future, NOT now.

People use XHTML and send it as text/html still, this is enough reason to show that it is wrong. Most browsers do NOT interpret XHTML based on XML yet.

XHTML time will come, but still the "rules" of using it are the same as those of HTML so far, with few differences as I mentioned earlier, it is better to learn HTML and then see how XHTML comes out of it rather than start out with HTML.

Khalid

XHTML vs XML

[ptaff]

First of all, something _very_ important is to make sure your students understand the 'tree-like' organisation of information in XML. h1 and p tags are NOT designed to be tags for bigger size and line breaks. People tend to look HTML as a paint program, it's so easy and Internet Explorer allows all this stuff.

Then you can show them HTML tags. I think the road from HTML to XHTML is much more dangerous than beginning with XML because of all the bells and whistles that can distract from the fact that XHTML is a _structure oriented_ markup language.

As some of your students will already know some HTML, don't let them corrupt their classmates with "witty" tricks like spacers made out of GIFs and FONT all over the place.

May I suggest Mozilla as a workbench? it can be configured to be extremely strict regarding XML syntax, and if it does fine in Mozilla, you are SURE it's legal.

Re:HTML is just used in a wrong way ..

[Khalidz0r]

You write XHTML code, but you don't use XSLT, but a normal dtd.

This is just using the XML convention, NOT actually using XML yet, there are some websites in the internet using fully XML based XHTML which you hardly can view with any browser, I forgot the name though.

P.S. I code XHTML myself when I develop pages, I have nothing against XHTML, but I think it's better to learn HTML before and then understand how XHTML is different, gives us more knowledge.

Khalid

Re:Excellent idea!

[nkg]

I think you are missing the point.
HTML, XHTML mark-up are very similar and someone with a good grasp of HTML would be able to pick up the differences very quickly.
Yes they both are mark-up languages used to create/display web page But how you go about creating web pages with the two are very different. Presently (most not all) html designers would use Dreamweaver to design a web page using table's for poisonings. font tag's to change size,face & colour. etc.

Whilst those who prefer XHTML mark-up try and put the layout elements in to CSS.
So how you go about creating /designing the pages are quite different.
So teaching someone how to *design* a webpage using HTML is quite a redundant lesson.