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Building a Local Cellular Phone Carrier?
Netsuj asks: "I'm doing some work for a firm which operates in B.F.E. Many miles before even arriving, I loose signal on my GSM phone. What is the feasibility of creating a limited-area wireless telephone network? As it is outside the area of repeater technology (I believe), is there such thing as a simple cellular-to-wireline system? What are the possibilities of this operating on a break-even basis for employees (i.e. charging minimal roaming fees)? Any ideas? Sadly, something like this appears to be the only option; contacting any of the mobile network operators in the larger area resulted in absolutely no interest in expanding their coverage." Unfortunately, along with the technical problems, there is also paperwork. What kind of permits and other red-tape-hurdles would be necessary to satisfy all of the lawyer-types?
You'd better be well fucking financed for this little endeavor. It's no small fucking feat.
Where the fuck do I even begin? Good christ man.
1. Obtain license from FCC. Maybe you'll get luck and you can bid on a PCS license, something minor, like an F block. That's the cheap part. Depending on the area, you might get by with only paying a few hundred thousand. Or you might be a black jew from Greenland. Figure on spending a few million on this.
2. then hire a bunch of squirly fucks to do all sort of gypsy analysis on the area. with that license, it's use it or Lose is, hizzo. That includes all sorts of wacky fucking shit like topographic analysis and god knows what else.
3. So you'll need to put up a shitload of antenna sites to cover the mandated number of people. each site is pretty cheap at about $500,000. It might only take a a dozen or so, depending on where you buy your license.
4. Don't forget to hire a law firm to handle all the FCC related bullshit. I bet they're only a couple ten thousand a year.
I'm not fucking joking about this shit. It's next to fucking impossible to do, unless you're stonecold serious. And if you're asking slashdot, I highly doubt you are.
Get a satellite phone, or landline.
Maybe ditch the GSM phone? Analog works just about everywhere. A back phone is about $80 on eBay. Or you can do it the hard way.
finally a realist.
spoken like a true bofh... excellent
Move to Europe, we have civiization here, GSM phones work everywhere.
[Really offtopic] If the post submission bit doesn't allow this, that should be fixed. And it is high time that slashcode output *some* kind of HTML.
Free Java games for your phone: Tontie, Sokoban
If it's any easier to do it like they do, ie,
to interface phone & Internet services)...
so try it like that.
On the other hand, remember that - for NON-
commercial applications - the hams have had
autopatch service (interfacing, say, a 146 MHz
repeater to POTS, so that any [authorised]
amateur, who could acccess the repeater
can also make [in that case, local] calls,
that they dial themselves, using DTMF-pads
in the microphones of their 2-way, radios,
presently using narrow FM modulated voice).
Commercial trunked systems have telephone
interconnects, which seem like the same
thing, except each radio can be identi-
fied by the system, so it's easier to
allocate call-costs to user(s).
Oh, the [more or less open (sometimes
you have to join a radio club to access)
amateur radio autopatch systems usually
limit calls to local and/or emergency
tel.no's... still -free- in USA...?
A portion of the Club membership pays
the monthly phone bill for the line.
(Of course, in Australia - with its
tradition of gov't-owned telco (a.k.a.
Testra - currently accounting for 90+%
percent of the market; read: monopoly)
- local calls are -not- free, so hams
in Australia never enjoyed the benefit
of the autopatch.)
Oh, and if the [SA] Gov't Radio Network's
telephone-interconnect is any indication,
trunked radio networks charge HEAPS for a
phone call from a trunked radio (handheld
or mobile)... one service paying Au$ 8 / min
ie before it was removed from most radios.
Also, each radio in the network capable
of using the telephone interconnect ser-
vice was charged Au$ 5 / month - just like
cel.phones.
If you implement your -own- trunked radio
network, with tel.interconnect, you could
decide for yourself how to charge.
BTW, you didn't give us any indication of
how much traffic each handset/radio might
be expected to generate here...?
5? 10? 15?
Unless you're talking 40 or 50 miles, I bet if you talk to a local radio expert, you would find that a high-gain directional antenna, properly aligned, plus a repeater, would work miracles.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Then, get your hands on (or develop if you're so inclined) a voice-over-IP telephone client for said handheld PC and server software.
Seems like this could work as a poor man's makeshift wireless phone service. Of course I have no idea how graceful 802.11b equipment is about handing off from access point to access point, but it seems a lot cheaper (if less entertaining) than Profane Motherfucker's solution.
There are no karma whores, only moderation johns
Upon review Tsarkon Reports Profane Motherfucker was funny in this post.
But fuck all the rest of you nerdy gek fucking puke assholes who run thier fucking cakehole here like bitchfucks.
Fucking Slashdotting pricks get a sense of humor fuckers.
starting an gsm operator is not going to be cheap, due to various reasons including the permits which might not be available even with cash.
so, your best options are to look for something else to stay connected, try different operators(if you have more than one), different protocols(nmt is still available in parts of the world, and afaik, has larger cells).
heck, even trying different phones might work(and certainly is worth trying, they have differences in this regard, unless your company is working in south pole it could make it work), some phone manufacturers even sell better antennas for remote locations(naturally, they take more power, at least benefon offered one for their 'io' phone that already had the best range in some tests).
satellite phone might be feasible too..
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Many miles before even arriving, I loose signal on my GSM phone.
Thuraya phones use GSM by default but will fail over to satellite mode when no GSM signal is available.
Another option you might look at is amature radio. The licencing for this is much simpler and if you must access the pots they have phone patch devices that you can install.
If you really want cellular phone then a DECT network will be lot cheaper to setup. Of course, if you want to call somebody outside your cell (you didn't say that) then you still need a trunk line coming in. Cable, radio or satellite are the obvious choices.
Learn to live without your fucking phone glued to your ear. God, what a loser.
You might also consider switching providers, if that is an option.
The cell phone carriers spent billions buying all of the appropriate licenses from the FCC. Unless you have the cash to purchase a phone company, it ain't gonna happen.
Get an analog bag phone or be out of touch for a few minutes.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
I imagine you could work out a deal where they supply one (or a few) custom placed cells if you buy enough contracts and/or just plain give them enough money. As long as the firm you work for is large enough (I assume it is from the other proposed solutions), it could be a workable system.
This way you would avoid all the hassles of having to learn how to be a mobile phone operator, dealing with the FCC etcetera.
Pathman, Free (as in GPL) 3D Pac Man
They never stop working for you or something like that.
I've been all OVER BFE, and I've never had Verizon not work.
Of course, this is assuming that you are in the U.S. somewhere.
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
Why do I have the feeling i have been reading the parent post staring through a letterbox with my head rotated 90 degress?
Pathman, Free (as in GPL) 3D Pac Man
If and when you need to make a call, just stop at a gas station or a convenience store and drop a couple of coins into that antique box, they call a pay phone. It worked great for your Daddy and your Grand-Daddy. It'll work great for you too.
Quit being a whiny bitch.
Barriers to entry are so high that trying to compete is practically impossible. Better spend your money on a partnership with an operator. There are numerous examples of large buildings setting up pico-cells inside to ensure good deep coverage. They most likely cover the hardware and setup costs and let the operators bid for access. Then, the negociation hangs on the demographics of the covered population. If it were good enough the operator would already be there, so that means that you will at best give an operator free access to your network. But then you'll have cell phone coverage. Just keep in mind that each BTS will set you back 100-500k USD, so maybe whata you really want is just a VHF relay and handheld transceivers for your employees.
You may also wish to have a look at PMR networks such as TETRA (Terrestrial Trunked Radio). Many large industrial sites that need mission critical secure mobile coverage have turned to it with much success.
A Tetra FAQ
A Tetra introduction
go to www.andrew.com check out what they got for antennas.the prices are all listed.
the company i work for builds towers for phone companies.all i did last winter was install GSM.
also, somebody already mentioned DECT, which is another great possibility. I believe there are lots of european GSM phones that have DECT built in too.
It seems to me that the profane person's reply was a bit of a sidetrack. Anyway, you might want to look at this supplier of private GSM nodes: http://www.psitek.com/Product/GSM_private_network/ body_gsm_private_network.html.
I did a search on "private GSM" on google, and that is what I found. I recalled that in Hong Kong a few years ago it was possible for businesses to set up a GSM node within their office, allowing people to use a gsm phone as a part of the local telephone switch.
I suspect a major challenge here would be a) the need to use "unlocked" phones and b) the requirement to switch SIM cards when you got onto the "BFE" (whatever that is, the link to the acronym searcher didn't give an unambiguous solution). ...r
"Connaître, decouvrir, communiquer - telle est la destinée d'un savant." - F. Arago
Some of the business communications vendors (Such as Avaya) have microcellular systems designed for in-building and short-range communications using the same ideas as cellular. Some microcell phones are designed to automatically hand off to a proper cellular network (At least in theory - I've never seen such a system actually installed and working.)
If you want longer range - Find another solution. Your GSM phone won't cut it. If you're in the USA, get a real provider. The GSM operators in the US have HORRENDOUS coverage. One other poster suggested Verizon, I would too. Verizon's network and AT&T's old pre-GSM network are the only ones in the U.S. that can claim options of true nationwide coverage. (And at this point I don't think you can sign up for AT&T's "old" service, leaving VZW as the only game in town.) VZW's 100% coverage plan is somewhat more expensive than their America's Choice plans, which still cover 60-70% of the landmass of the US, significantly more than any other provider can claim for non-roaming service.
Yes, Verizon's plans are significantly more expensive as far as minutes per dollar, but you get what you pay for. Verizon is #1 in coverage, one of the top providers as far as customer service, and one of the top if not #1 in quality control of both their network AND the phones they release. (This is why the selection of phones available on Verizon is usually a bit more limited/behind other CDMA providers - It takes a LOT longer for a phone to pass Verizon QA testing if it passes at all. Nokia hasn't been able to even get a phone through the process successfully since the 5185. They make good GSM phones but are not nearly as competent when it comes to CDMA.)
Another option for you is two-way business-band VHF or UHF NBFM. This will require an FCC license in most cases, but one that's a hell of a lot easier to obtain than a PCS spectrum license. There are a few unlicensed frequencies, max range on those is 5-10 miles.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Then I'm guessing for the rest of us becoming our own gsm provider is probably cost prohibitive.
"Dogs love me 'cause I'm crazy sniffable." -Beastie Boys
Seems it wouldn't be too hard to put a GPS device in the cellphone, and to have it contantly recording the signal level every, say, 5 seconds. If it has clean signal, it can send the data immediately; and if it's in a dead spot, it can cache the data for (some time -- a day at most? Depends on how much it takes to store it), and then send it up when it has signal again.
This way, the cellular carrier will have detailed maps of where they need new towers.
I'm sure they have some way of determining where to put a new tower, but this seemed like a good solution -- if people aren't going to a specific area, then it won't get data from there, and they won't need to waste putting a cell tower up near there.
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
You could use a passive repeater for this...
A passive repeater is two tuned high-gain antennas connected by a length of high-quality coax (or other transmission line).
You put the exterior antenna in an optimum position for transmit/receive to the cellular antenna (perhaps even using a directional design such as a Yagi) and place the interior antenna in a strategic location for maximum internal coverage.
There IS some loss in this design, but the idea is to make up for it in the gain of the antennas (especially the external one).
Best of all, this design requires no power (as it is completely passive) and if you're handy with antenna design, you could whip the whole thing together on a thin budget.
All opinions presented here aren't mine.
BFE=Butt Fuck Egypt=someplace in the middle of nowhere
I contracted for Sprint PCS when they were building their network in Atlanta. I was told that each tower cost about $100,000 to build. They signed 20 - 30 year leases, and paid a couple thousand a month rent on each tower. Each one had a T1 line going to it from Bellsouth.
When they launched the network, I think there was something like 427 towers around the metro area, with plans to build more. Not sure how many more, as my serivces were no longer needed after they launched. Sure did a lot of driving in the 9 months or so that I worked for em.
contacting any of the mobile network operators in the larger area resulted in absolutely no interest in expanding their coverage.
Is this fact or speculation?
In the UK, the mobile operators are so desperate to install new transmitters they actually pay [tens] thousands a year to householders,stores,schools,libaries indeed nearly anybody really thousands a year in site rent. The key factor is not the type of location or even number of subs, but mainly black-spot coverage. The coverage percentage is a main selling point.
Definitely not an expert but sheps idea sounds good. Especially when combined with a cheap tower in downtown B.F.E. .
If you know the bandwidth you can build your own antennas (maybe even your own repeater). Of course you could always build the thing (things?) and just nail it in an appropriately located treen on the high ground.
"The phrase "high tech" doesn't spring out at me here."
anonymous coward