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When Cable Companies Break -Your- Cable Modem?
Steve asks: "I've suffered ongoing problems with my cable access for several months which my cable company has not resolved. Yesterday I discovered that the cause of the problem was probably due to a remote software update applied to my cable modem by the cable company 2 months ago. Their solution is to give me a new rental modem. This is fine, except that I *own* the current modem which is now broken and can not be sold on. The cable company are unwilling to offer compensation. According to my contract, the company can only modify equipment which they own. The question: have they broken the UK's Computer Misuse Act? Should they be liable for damages caused?"
Find a lawyer and sue... or threaten to anyway. It may be enough of a push.
That siad, if you do go to court remember one simple fact that makes their behavior look questionable: THEY broke something of YOURS, and now are making YOU pay THEM for the replacement they're LENDING you. If they broke your modem on purpose, this would be extortion; but I doubt they did that.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
.. would be proving that the update is what damaged/rendered your modem unusable. I think that the whole process would be more trouble then it is worth. Not to say that you most likely do not have a legitimate complaint, it would probably be too time consuming/expensive for you to pursue.
Also consider who sould be testing the modem. If it is tha cable company, do you think they will admit to actually destroying the modem. *ha*
The question: have they broken the UK's Computer Misuse Act?
Heh, who cares about this "Computer Misuse Act". They broke your property which they did not have permission to mess with. It's really just as simple as, that. Sue them! You'll win hands down in my opinion (not that it matters).
I am a viral sig. Please help me spread.
I predict that in the near future we're going to see lots of stories like this. This really demonstrates the problems and dangers which come from companies remotely 'auto-updating' customers products, particularly with out the customer's consent, or even knowledge.
Microsoft Windows has ever increasing types of 'auto-update' features, particularly with the advent of Windows XP. I'm not that familiar with XP, so I'll refrain from commenting on exactly how prevalent it is with XP, but its certainly going to be a big point that large companies will be making soon.
You'll notice too, how the introduction is always in small steps, not from "1. Nothing, 2. We own and admin your computer", but gradual steps, allowing customers to slowly warm to the idea that a faceless company somewhere has the 'right' to install and update whatever the hell they want to.
Given Microsoft and Other's track history, would you really trust them to admin your computer? When one service pack breaks another, does it make you wonder? TrustWorthy Computing! Please, spare me the jokes, Microsoft.
This may sound overly simple, but complain.
Pick up the phone and dial their support department and calmly ask for a manager. As soon as you get them ask them their name and direct phone number then tell them your 'issue' - cause no-one has a problem when dialing support departments.
Point out that what they've done is equivalent to stepping into your house with a hammer and hitting your modem with it until it broke.
NEVER get angry or upset, if the person you're speaking to can't help you, simply ask for the next higher manager. Again keep a note of names and phone numbers, NEVER accept a phone back, it hardly ever happens.
Persistence is the key word here and try to keep in mind that the first people you speak to simply don't have the power within that company to offer you what you want, simply move up the ladder till you get to the person you need.
Eventually you'll be wasting the time of someone important enough to say 'We'll send you a new modem'.
Good luck - talking to the Citizen's Advice Bureau if you still don't get satisfaction may help.
try perhaps writing "Letters to the Editor" (or some sort of consumer rights type column) to a few local computer magazines. They will generally contact the company in question, get their side of the story, and oh-by-the-way your dirty laundry is going to be in the next issue, so whatcha gonna do about it?
Bad PR is pretty good grease..
You may also have some industry body you can complain with as well. In Oz, that's the dept Fair Trading, Telecommunications Industry Ombudsman, ACCC, etc. Even if they can't do anything for you, registering the complaint gives them stats they can use later on if the problem gets bad enough.
Opportunity knocks. Karma hunts you down.
I got better things to spend my money on. I would rather rent. That way when they require an upgrade, I get a new modem kind of free (but not really cuz I pay some money every month). Also, if they so try a screwy modem update, they can fix it for me.
Gorkman
Was it an 'automatic update' or did you download it an update your modem yourself?
Why didn't they supply you with the modem in the first place?
My DSl ISP sent me the DSL modem and I just hooked it up and was online and I have to manually update it.
If they sent you a signel it is their fault if it friend your modem. If you downloaded an update that fried your modem your screwed. It sounds like it could be their fault though, and it sounds like their compensation is a rental. You may be able to accuse them of purposely destroying your modem so that you would have to use the rental, but that would only be valid if they are making you pay extra for the rental.
Only 'flamers' flame!
Check your License Agreement before you do anything. This should be common sense. Cable internet providers rely on little configuration text files in the modem to throttle bandwidth and so on. They probably have a section in your license agreement that allows them to upload information to the cable modem. You probably cannot use their service without agreeing to this. Whether or not you own the modem is irrelevant here. You use their service, you play by their rules.
Read your manual. I had the exact same thing happen with my connection. Power cycling the modem was no use, and doing so would just cause it to lock up trying to download an update and getting stuck. After going through the manual, I discovered the factory reset option. This cleared all the bad gremlins, and the latest update downloaded and installed fine. You have read the manual, right? If that's no help, I guess renting is the way to go.
Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?
The question: have they broken the UK's Computer Misuse Act? Should they be liable for damages caused?"
Tell me again why the editors keep posting clear solicitations for legal advice to Ask Slashdot...
This sounds like a question for a judge. If it was in the US, I could understand your reluctance, but don't you blokes over there get to see one of those guys in a funny wig? Or do I just watch too much PBS Mystery?
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I'm working under the assumption that their errant software update did not physically damage the cable modem, it just put in some updated software that renders it unusable.
I suggest contacting the manufacturer of the cable modem; there may be a combination of some "reset" step and some kind of firmware update that would overwrite whatever badness the cable company (accidentally, I assume) put on there, and get it going again.
You own a modem. Someone updated its software, without you ever agreeing that to let them. That it happened to be a bad "upgrade" is not important -- it's indisputably yours and indisputably on your property, and they fucked with it. Bad cable provider.
You're owed at least the cost of repair/replacement of your modem, and any rental fees you've been charged to that point. In addition, you're due whatever reasonable expenses you incur in claiming these things that you're owed (lawyers, court fees).
If you want, it'd be reasonable to ask for some token for the time you were forced to waste in dealing with this abuse of your personal property. Given the somewhat vague value of an individual's time, you might as well ask for something else that is of vague cost to them - something like n months of service for free, or somesuch other reasonable thing.
Of course, IANAL, I've never even been to the UK, YMMV, caveat emptor, etc.
Good luck.
Kid-proof tablet..
According to my contract, the company can only modify equipment which they own. The question: have they broken the UK's Computer Misuse Act? Should they be liable for damages caused?"
Yes and yes assuming that you can prove it.
Of course the big question is why can't you simply patch it to the prior version?
Firstly, IANAL
Secondly - resolving the problem. Have you talked to the modem manufacturer? They may send you a fix for free. Sending you a software fix will cost them nothing, and will generate goodwill, so it's in their interests to do this.
Third - The computer misuse act is probably completely inappropriate here. I believe it's a criminal law intended for dealing with malicious damage. Threatening them with it for negligence makes you look like a moron. Breach of contract and negligent damage are more suitable terms.
I'd suggest sending a letter, by recorded delivery, explaining that you owned the modem, that a rental modem will not be adequate, and state precicely what you want them to do. Don't threaten legal action, at least not directly. Everyone does that. It makes people sound like stuck up little twits.
If all else fails, I would suggest that you consider ADSL, and tell the cable company that you are doing so. This will cost at least give you the satisfaction of knowing that you have deprived them od revenue.
There are a couple of minor problems with this approach when dealing with most major companies these days.
I wouldn't bother calling phone support for an issue like this. Just send them a registered letter to their customer services manager, stating your problem, what you'd like to have them do about it, and a reasonable time period in which you want them to act. If they don't, maybe send them one reminder letter. Don't get all clever and lawyery if you're not a pro, just make your case in plain English, and ask for a sensible response. Then take them to the small claims court if they fail to respond reasonably.
In open-and-shut cases, which this could well be (though obviously we don't know the full details here), the UK small claims courts are actually pretty good. There's no US-style paying a fortune for a lawyer; in fact, you probably don't need one at all, though you might want to speak to your local Citizen's Advice Bureau. Hearings in the court tend to be brief, and the few results I've seen have been pretty fair to all concerned.
I'm no lawyer, but from past experience, the court would probably award the cost of an equivalent new modem plus court costs, or something similar.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
..does your contract with your provider state that you can use your own modem with their service? If it does, then they need to rectify the matter. If not, you may not have much recourse.
I know that Time Warner wouldn't let my old boss use his own equipment for a business account (and were were a shop with such equipment and knowledge) and force him to use their rental modem. They generally do this to ensure that they can cap the modems if need be.
As someone else suggested, contact the mfg of the modem and let them know what happened. See if they can provide an update that will undo what the cable provider pushed and close the door on allowing them to do it again in the future.
And, as always, document every conversation you have with the cable company.
Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
I haven't had many problems with my cable ISP in 2.5 years, but I have had a few. In each case, they own the problem, soup to nuts. All I have to do is pretend that I'm rebooting the Windows PC that the modem isn't really connect to whenever they ask, and figure out what they're *really* asking for, and make sure I comply.
Own your own modem, and whenever there's a problem, it's finger-pointing time. Is the problem in their system or your modem? No doubt even if it's really in their system, and some of their people know it, the guy on the other end of the phone won't, and will blame it on your modem.
In the face of life's inevitable problems, renting is simpler, though a few bucks more expensive. The rental fee didn't used to be there, and I figure it was their way of jacking the rates up without a rate increase. I have no doubt that sometime in the next year there'll be some sort of 'service fee' for non-rental modems and we'll all be at parity, again.
Unfortunately all the rebates I've seen in my area are for new subscribers, only.
I'd really rather have DSL with its more enlightened/less restrictive Terms Of Service.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
On the other hand, I've never had a single problem with my setup. I suspect that's because I bought a good cable modem, rather than using the crappy Motorola ones the cable company rents out. It's a tradeoff, so the situation isn't as clear-cut as you present it as being.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Of course the big question is why can't you simply patch it to the prior version?
He may well be able to do this, and that may well work. (Actually, one of the big problems I have here with stating anything definitive is the original poster's statement:
Yesterday I discovered that the cause of the problem was probably due to a remote software update applied to my cable modem by the cable company 2 months ago.
Note that probably -- i.e. he doesn't know for sure.)
However, I digress. I have seen situations where a microcode/firmware update has messed things up so badly that you can't recover from it. I once had a client who applied an update to their Dell server and ended up getting a completely new motherboard from Dell for free as their server became quite useless as a result of the update. This doesn't sound quite that lethal, but it does happen.
Im sure I'm going to get modded down and flamed for this... but I have one question.
If you own the modem, why was your modem accepting software updates?
I mean, the cable company sends out software updates for their own hardware only.
If you bought your modem, yours does not fall under that catagory.
Why did you allow it to accept this update?
I'm willing to bet that the cable company has in your contract somewhere a clause that states they will not support your hardware at all.
If it works, great. If not, its not their problem. And rightfully so.
So from the sounds of it, your modem that you bought had a major flaw in it, in that it should not have been listening to the cable companys update commands.
Why is this the cable companys fault?
Sounds to me like someone taking a 110vac lamp and plugging it in a 220vac outlet, having it blow up, then wanting to sue the power company for not making things magically work.
If this was the cable companys hardware and they broke it themselfs, it would be a totally different story.
But your connecting an unsupported forien device that the cable company even tells you out right isnt supported nor garenteed to even work at all, into their network.
This isnt a telephone device.. you buy an analog modem and the FCC garentees it will work with the phone network. you buy an electrical device and its UL listed to garentee it will work with the power grid.
You rent a cable modem because they garentee it works with their service. you failed to do this part, and are trying to blame someone else.
Either you didnt research enough into if that modem would work correctly in the first place, or did not configure it correctly (Which is what it sounds like).
How anyone can believe this is anything other than user-error is beyond me.
It would be good for everyone out there who's a about to subscribe to a cable modem service in the UK (including me) to know just which company we're talking about.
So, please, which one is it?
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Tell me again why the editors keep posting clear solicitations for legal advice to Ask Slashdot...
Believe it or not, many Slashdot readers have talked with attorneys, and some may have discussed similar issues with their counsel. Secondhand legal advice ("my lawyer told me this") is good for an initial survey of the legal landscape so that a client can know some of what's going on before the initial consultation.
Disclaimers: No warranty, this isn't legal advice, make sure your BS meter is well calibrated, etc.
Will I retire or break 10K?
The cable company are unwilling to offer compensation. According to my contract, the company can only modify equipment which they own. The question: have they broken the UK's Computer Misuse Act? Should they be liable for damages caused?"
Yes, one of their employees, not the company, has almost certainly broken Section 1 of the UK Computer Misuse Act 1990, which states:
(1) A person is guilty of an offence if--
(a) he causes a computer to perform any function with intent to secure access to any program or data held in any computer;
(b) the access he intends to secure is unauthorised; and
(c) he knows at the time when he causes the computer to perform the function that that is the case.
UK Computer Misuse Act 1990
It almost certainly hinges on the final clause, that they knew this access was not authorised. It seems resonable to assume they do know about their responsibilities under the Computer Misuse Act, so I suggest you try to get then to admit it.
I work for Comcast.
First suggestion is to call up the ISP. Verify your account info with the first rep. Then ask them nicely if you could speak to a supervisor. Get their name, and explain the situation, and make a deal with them, ie: will they refund you the cost of a new modem, plus 1-2 months of service interruptions if you fax in the receipt of the new modem? See how the supervisor reacts to that. Then bargain down to 1 month free plus cost of modem, then just the modem itself.
I will guarantee you that I as a rep would be able to talk my sup into doing that for the customer if there was cleary a legitimate thing that shows that is what caused the modem to be damaged, how to prove that, who knows.
But the most important thing is never, NEVER raise your voice when you are on the phone, I will guarantee you, 1. you will not get any respect at all, 2. you will more than likely get hung up on, or givin company policy bs. But also you must be very persistent, threatenin youll find a different isp sometimes works, but not always, especially with my company we are soo huge one customer isnt goin to hurt us.
But you will be fully wastin your time if you go to court, just be persistent and very nice n calm sounding and also reasonable. Also make sure you remember who you spoke to, also verify with them that they will note your account about what you spoke about etc.