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The Myth of Radio Spectrum Interference

Selanit writes "Just came across a fascinating article on Salon about a technologist who claims that there is no such thing as "interference" in the radio spectrum. He argues that interference is a symptom of inadequate equipment, not a fact of nature, and that with improved transceivers we could open the spectrum up to high-quality broadcasts by anyone. Reference is made to the GNU Radio Project. Neat stuff." We've posted other stories about this. I wonder if the "color" meme will catch on.

7 of 564 comments (clear)

  1. Big difference betwqeen RF and optical receivers by AlecC · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The big different between RF and optical receives is that RF receivers (radios) are usually fairly omnidirectional, whereas optical receivers (eyes) are usually pretty directional. In part, this derives from the physics of the things - longer waves go turn more round obstacles, and tend to broadcast wide angle if their wavelength is similar in size to their aerial.

    The way we use radio takes advantage of this - we don't have to aim the antenna for our car radio, and we prefer it that way so we can listen as we drive. This leads to a promiscuous sort of receiver, which is subject to interference. I think it is going a bit far to say thai is because of the legislative environment or technological background - it is because it is the way we *want* it to be.

    At optical weavelengths, we *want* a directional, even a focussed, image - and our eyes produce it. In between, we tend to use directional transmissions with point-to-point microwave dishes.

    However, the simple reflector style lens, depending upon newtoinian optics to fouca an image of the transmitter onto the receiver, is not the only way to receive a signal. People are already working on multi-aerial systems which take a "holographic" approach to reconstructing the signal. There was an article about one of them on /. a few months ago. These could very well lock onto the signal from a particular direction, and ignore signals on the same frequencey from a different direction.

    I think the frequencxy hopping bit is actually somewhat of a red herring. It doesn't generate new spectrum, it meakes better use of the spctrum we have. It gets rid of the wastage caused by blank safety space betwenn radio stations both in geographical space and in spectum space.

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  2. Re:complete bunk by nicodaemos · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm not sure how you can consider the article complete bunk if you've had a sufficient college physics class that covered the particle-wave duality of electromagnetic waves.

    In your example, it's true that your eyes can't discern the difference between the signals and this is classically how we've viewed radio detectors. However, the information in the signals is not lost - you're ability to detect between them is altered, but the photons themselves are unaltered.

    If you switch to a different type of sensor or encoding scheme - for example, utilize frequency hopping (aka spread spectrum) then you could easily broadcast the two signals over the same range of frequencies (colors).

    Overall the article has a lot of merit in providing a different and, in my mind, compelling metaphor of bandwidth as colors as opposed to the classical bandwidth as land. As to his ideas of limitless bandwidth being true, the idea is beyond my ability to see how this is feasible, but that does not detract from his idea that we could actually be communicating a LOT more over the current spectrum than we are today.

  3. There are more sensitive radio receivers out there by tjwhaynes · · Score: 5, Interesting
    and they are known as radio telescopes!

    Radio Astronomers have a hard enough time keeping the important wavebands free of interference without the radio spectrum being unregulated. Lots of useful, hard science is being done by the radio telescopes around the world observing the machinations of galaxies out in the distant universe. One of the key problems is that these signals are amazingly faint. The standard unit used in radio measurements is the Jansky - thats 10^(-26) Joules per second per square metre - which should give you some indication as to how faint. Lift that coke can off the floor onto the table and you've just used up more energy than has been received from distant galaxies by ALL the radio telescopes on the surface of the planet.

    Terestrial radio transmitters are so many orders of magnitude stronger than these signals that any sideband transmissions even 90db below peak transmission still totally swamps the surrounding spectrum. And very few transmitters are truely 'perfect'. It's not as though a transmitter broadcasting at frequency X with HWHM waveband Y can't be detected at X +/- 8 Y. Yes - better quality receivers allow you to separate out signals at close frequencies, but a very strong signal next to a very weak signal will drown out it's neighbours.

    Cheers,

    Toby haynes

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  4. Re:The article is crap by pe1rxq · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What the guy in the article is talking about is using spread spectrum techniques.
    This is done by spreading your signal over a large spectrum with a pseudo random key. The number of possible keys is still limited (There has to be a certain difference between two keys for it two work) and thus you still have a maximum number of users although things like roaming are a lot easier since you are limited by keys overlapping and not range overlapping.

    This is what is being done in CDMA cellphones, Wireless Lan, Bluetooth etc. It is nothing new, already happening and you still need regulation to make sure the spectrum doesn't get completly unusable.

    Jeroen

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  5. More than that... by fireboy1919 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So...he's talking about using the spectrum more efficiently.

    But more than that, I think. Consider that the spectrum itself is not quantized. We quantize it with different radio stations, but this is not really absolutely necessary. If our recievers/transmitters where all spread spectrum, and they could all recieve/transmit at nearly any frequency we wanted, then there really wouldn't be much problem with interference. Sure, you might get signal degradation in one frequency band because someone else was using it, but you'd get less in another band that would make up for it.

    To make sure that the spectrum doesn't become completely unusable wouldn't require government regulation of WHO uses it as much as it would require regulation on HOW they use it. If people used the spectrum the way that broadcasting companies do now, we would certainly have a problem.

    But it is unlikely that anyone would be able to completely use all of the spectrum because of the unbelievable energy requirements that this would need.

    In short, with the appropriate scheme, there really is enough bandwidth for everybody (that is, bandwidth would be limited by power, not by regulation).

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  6. He's right, but he's completely wrong by Argyle · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If we were starting our broadcasting systems today, he'd be right. There are many better ways to do it today.

    However when radio and television began, there were no computers or even transistors, there were no phase-locked oscillators or QAM modulation, and there were only a handful of broadcasters.

    Yes, some of the frequency hopping and CDMA type concepts have been around for a while, but only in the last 10 years available at a price that anyone but the government could afford.

    Mr. Reed's ideas are insightful, but not very practical. Our entire telecommunications infrastructure relies on spectrum assignments. The technology does encounter interference. To simply point the finger at bad planning and blaming the decisionmakers from the 50s for not predicting the state of technology fifty years later is ludicrous.

    Reasonable proposals to more forward with UWB that doesn't interfere with traditional infrastructures should be pushed. Eventually the old technologies will fade away like the telegraph.

    But to simply rant that "It sucks. Cooler, better tech exists." doesn't do anything.

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  7. Um, no... by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The processor in your Palm Pilot is completely different than the DSPs found in many digital radios, etc. The Palm Pilot is a general-purpose CPU, which means it requires much more hardware to do what a dedicated DSP designed around signal processing does. (DSPs are often HEAVILY pipelined to maximize throughput because decisions rarely have to be made so branch mispredictions are a non-issue. If you thought the P4 had a deep pipeline, check out some DSPs...) Also, many "software" radios aren't really software - More appropriately a lot of them are "reconfigurable hardware" - Essentially using FPGAs to implement custom dedicated logic. (Once the domain of ASICs, but for small runs FPGAs are much cheaper, and for anything where you might expect to change the logic around later FPGAs are a must.) An FPGA can do things that a 2.4 GHz P4 could barely dream about, while costing not much more than the CPU in your Palm Pilot, simply because it's dedicated to the task.

    Note that the GNU Radio project recently achieved ATSC (US digital TV) demodulation.

    Using $1000+ worth of hardware

    40x slower than realtime.

    Compare that to the MyHD HDTV tuner card, which can do realtime demodulation, MPEG decoding, and display scaling for $300. Why? Because it's designed for the task. It's somewhat reconfigurable, but you can't take a Palm Pilot and turn it into a software-defined radio.

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