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Shelter: A Quest for Non-Toxic Housing

Crocuta writes "Many of the geeks on /. voluntarily confine themselves to their homes for vast stretches of time, but what happens when your home becomes your prison? Eric Hunting suffers from Environmental Illness which perpetually confines him to his home, which even as carefully furnished as it is, is still slowly killing him. His website, Shelter, is both a plea for help and a guide documenting one man's quest for non-toxic housing."

19 of 448 comments (clear)

  1. Erm... by pubjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Erm, wood anyone? Bricks and mortar? Glass?

    Having looked at the site, I can't help thinking that there might be a psychological element to "Environmental illness".

    1. Re:Erm... by Maeryk · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Erm, wood anyone? Bricks and mortar? Glass?

      What wood? Plywood (flooring substrate) and press board are all made with really nasty glues.. that give off formaldehyde, among other things, for years and years. Bricks are made of god knows what in some cases, bonding and strengthening agents are used in the formula, and these too can give off gasses or dusts that are toxic to people with allergies. Mortar has really nasty things in it.. which again people can be allergic too, and to seal it you need to use paint.. which also can cause reactions in people who cant deal with certain fumes.

      The fact that the guy is leaning towards adobe makes me think he is allergic to something that is pretty commonly used as a "safe" bonding or strenghtening agent.

      Maeryk

      --
      Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
    2. Re:Erm... by pubjames · · Score: 5, Funny

      What wood? Plywood (flooring substrate) and press board are all made with really nasty glues.

      Well don't use fricking plywood or press board then!

      Bricks are made of god knows what in some cases

      Bricks are made of clay, baked at very high temperatues. There really isn't much more to it than that.

      Mortar has really nasty things in it

      Really, like, erm, lime, silica and sand?

      Where do you buy your building supplies, for flips sake, Dr. Evil?

    3. Re:Erm... by Zathrus · · Score: 4, Informative

      Modern wood isn't very chemically "safe" -- various treatments involve chemicals you wouldn't otherwise like to be exposed to. One of the primary agents used in pressure treated wood is aresenic -- and there's some evidence that it does leak out into the surroundings (although still at a non-harmful level). Engineered wood (plywood, pressed wood, OSB, etc) often contains formaldehyde, along with other chemicals used in the bonding process (again - low levels - less than 1% of the mass is the bonding agent).

      Modern wood floors are coated with polyurethane and aluminum oxide. I've done more furniture finishing than I care to think about and poly isn't the nicest thing on earth.

      There are various chemicals used in the tinting of bricks and mortar, which I can imagine would be problematic. Modern concrete is also nasty - there's a reason they warn you not to handle with bare hands, since you can get chemical burns in short order.

      Glass would seem to be relatively inert, but who knows.

      Paints and wallpaper all have fun and interesting chemical compounds.

      There probably are some psychosomatic symptoms in this illness, as there are in many, but I doubt that covers all of it. There's a high likelyhood that he actually does have severe negative reactions to a vast amount of chemicals -- although why this is is an interesting question. Genetic defect? Too many antibiotic sprays and cleaners as a kid (yes -- overuse of these is bad and reduces the overall effectiveness of your immune system)? Exposure to some high doses of chemicals that caused a trigger effect?

      And while he claims the need for EI-friendly housing is "extreme", it's extreme only in a very, very, very small community. I won't question his need for it, but I do question the number of people in need. And the fact is, it's going to be expensive. Hideously so. Removal of modern building methods and resources means a lot of human intensive labor along with some very specialized resource requirements. An adobe home for $125/sq ft may be one of the cheaper alternatives.

    4. Re:Erm... by Christopher+Bibbs · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Mortar has really nasty things in it

      Really, like, erm, lime, silica and sand?

      Where do you buy your building supplies, for flips sake, Dr. Evil?

      I don't know where you get your building supplies, but the stuff my contractor showed up with had a long list of US patent numbers for additives that improved the strength, reduced the set time, and cut down on the dust. Anything else those chemicals might do is beyond me, but I can tell you there is more in there than lime, silica, and sand.

    5. Re:Erm... by Reziac · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And as to his quest for an *adobe* house... Adobe is made from natural clay mixes, which particularly in the Southwestern U.S., can contain (and leak) measurable quantities of lead, arsenic, uranium, and in some basin areas, enough selenium to make anyone sick. Not to mention that adobe is not chemically-inert (it tends to dissolve over time, if not kept roofed and whitewashed) and is fairly dusty.

      Then he was looking at ceramic-coated steel buildings. Some older ceramics contain lead pigments, sufficient to be toxic. Has he checked that? evidently not.

      If discarded UFOs were available as housing, THAT is what he'd be trying to finance.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  2. Bullshit by sam_handelman · · Score: 4, Flamebait

    The article poses the question: What Is Environmental Illness? It then goes off about Northern Exposure, which was a very funny television show, but is not a well established authority on immunological disorders.

    It's a psychosomatic condition. Get a subscription for paxil and go the fuck outside.

    --
    The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
  3. For those of you.... by pfankus · · Score: 4, Informative

    ...too lazy to dig deep enough, here's a description of the illness from the site:

    What Is Environmental Illness?

    In 1990 the CBS television series Northern Exposure introduced America to a little known community of disabled people through the character of Mike Monroe, a lawyer afflicted by an illness known as MCS (Multiple Chemical Sensitivity) who sought refuge in a peculiar geodesic dome home on the outskirts of the eclectic Alaskan community featured in the series. Mike was 'allergic to the 20th Century' and suffered a variety of symptoms in response to the most minor exposures to chemicals. Though writers of this series took much liberty with the facts of this ailment, the essential social condition of people with this illness was well portrayed, in particular the alienation and social anxiety associated with having an illness that no one really comprehended, least of all those in the medical community who would normally be relied on for understanding and compassion.

    It is unclear precisely when MCS first emerged because misdiagnosis and politically motivated denial have consistently accompanied it to the present day. But over the 1980s physicians throughout the industrialized nations of the world began reporting a steadily growing number of cases of people developing a host of chronic symptoms, sometimes vague, sometimes plain, and sometimes dramatically life-threatening, which seemed to have no obvious pathology other than an association with the presence of common household industrial products or pollution. Symptoms ranged from things one might normally associate with conventional flu or allergy -such as asthmatic, skin, and gastrointestinal reactions- to neurological effects both subtle and dramatic -such as cognitive difficulty, numbness, trembling, twitching and spasms, and partial to total paralysis. Some patients claimed sensitivity to things well beyond the conventional clinical sphere, such as electromagnetic fields produced by appliances and electrical wiring. And there were few symptoms any patients had consistently in common other than a general progressive malaise dubbed 'chronic fatigue' and a vague chronic muscle or joint pain labeled Fibromyalgia. Many could trace the onset of their illness to a trigger exposure to some specific chemical product which resulted in a sudden flu-like illness and rapid break-down, though therafter their reactions would come in response to exposures to a vast assortment of things, including foods and sometimes natural contaminants like pollen, fungal spores, dusts, and natural fragrances.

    Most MCS suffers tended to succumb to the condition in mid adult-hood and are often female with middle-class backgrounds. In the US there is a preponderance of them from northern and eastern urban/suburban regions, suggesting an association with general environmental pollution levels. Male cases were rarer and more often associated with specific industrial chemical contamination or industy-related pre-cursor illnesses such as the Systemic Candidiasis which is common among brewery workers. (GWS suffers, as noted below, are veterans and mostly male, their trigger exposure related to whatever they were subjected to in the Gulf War) Children were the rarest group but also a rapidly growing one, due perhaps to an increasingly sedentary and sequestered lifestyle that keeps children exposed to more indoor air pollution coupled to a steadily decreasing quality of diet for children in industrialized countries.

    These cases proved immediately politically controversial because of the implication that they could be related to ubiquitous consumer products. These 'human canaries', as some physicians had dubbed them, were a potential threat to corporate interests and the government agencies charged with establishing safety and health standards. Thus there was a tendency by the medical establishment to at first dismiss the growing number of reports and then to promote a psychosomatic explanation that effectively blamed the patient -or the

    1. Re:For those of you.... by MightyTribble · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Exactly. It's quack science.

      Anything from a peer-reviewed medical journal? Or is "the Man" keeping them down?

  4. Um.. MOVE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Steps to finding a non-toxic home:

    1. MOVE OUT OF NEW JERSEY

    The rest will be much easier once step 1 is complete.

  5. impossible quest by Joe+the+Lesser · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, without building a treehouse and moving there.

    Anything chemically processed is a potential source of 'toxins', not to mention possible natural toxins that may get trapped in your house instead of floating around in nature.

    This quest, like the quest for a bacteria free home (lead by those lysol nuts), are not realistic.

    What you can do is get outside and exercise/experience the real world more often, and this exposure to a wide variety of things should help one's body recover from being sheltered inside a closed system that contains toxins.

    --
    "I only speak the truth"
    Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
  6. it's psychosomatic... by egomaniac · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Does the guy wear a tinfoil hat as well?

    Studies of such "syndromes" as sensitivity to EMF have revealed that the people in question are utterly able to distinguish the presense of radio waves or whatnot. It's bogus -- they're scaring themselves to death.

    I quote from The American Academy of Family Physicians website:
    "[MCS] has been rejected as an established organic disease by the American Academy of Allergy and Immunology, the American Medical Association, the California Medical Association, the American College of Physicians, and the International Society of Regulatory Toxicology and Pharmacology. It may be the only ailment in existence in which the patient defines both the cause and the manifestations of his own condition. Despite this, it has achieved credibility in workmen's [sic] compensation claims, tort liability, and regulatory actions."

    "No evidence based on well-controlled clinical trials is available that supports a cause-and-effect relationship between exposure to very low levels of substances and the myriad symptoms reported by clinical ecologists to result from such exposure . . . . Until such accurate, reproducible, and well-controlled studies are available, the American Medical Association Council on Scientific Affairs believes that multiple chemical sensitivity should not be considered a recognized clinical syndrome."

    "Review of the clinical ecology literature provides inadequate support for the beliefs and practices of clinical ecology. The existence of an environmental illness as presented in clinical ecology theory must be questioned because of the lack of a clinical definition. Diagnoses and treatments involve procedures of no proven efficacy."
    Sorry to be insensitive, but until I see some better evidence for this being a real disorder, I'm going to assume that he's just another crackpot hypochondriac.
    --
    ZFS: because love is never having to say fsck
    1. Re:it's psychosomatic... by z4ce · · Score: 5, Informative

      Nutrasweet aka Aspartame IS safe. My dad works for the Merisant corporation which makes Equal, the largest consumer of Nutrasweet. If Nutrasweet is not safe, then certainly the solution to the problem will be darwinism. My dad and all of the other executives drink the stuff with every beverage. If they're at a restaurant that doesn't have Nutrasweet, they request it, and so on. All of the studies have shown there is no link to aspartame and any problems, and it has been one of the most studied substances on the planet. Something like 7000 studies I believe. And Merisant is NOT paying anybody off.

      As far as "Formaldehyde and Methanol" being such a problem, let me remind you that an eating an apple releases much more methanol into your system than the equal in your tea.

      And actually for the most part I think ADD and ADHD are just names for normal kids who want to sedate for our instutitional learning facilities (I do believe there are some true cases, but the vast majority).

  7. Re:Uhm, I think some things need explaining... by Maeryk · · Score: 4, Informative

    What is "Environmental Illness"? I've never heard it before in my life.

    Basically, from what I have read, it is one step below bubble-boy on the allergen list. Instead of being suceptible to germs, these people are susceptible to gasses and chomicals that most of us tolerate fine.

    What does "toxic home" mean in this context? I've never thought of lampshades as dangerous. I'm left guessing here.

    It means that every piece of anything chemically processed that you have in your home slowly breaks down over time, and gives off noxious chemicals. Everything from formaldehyde to radon.
    Most of us dont notice, but it apparently makes some people _very_ sick. Couple this with todays "need" to make homes virtually air tight, and you have a place that makes reactive people really, really sick.

    Obviously I can look these all up (and I will). But any other reporting source would've explained these concepts in some detail.

    He kinda does on a another page.. but you have to dig a bit to find it. It apparently involves moose, alaska, and nOrthern Exposure.

    Maeryk

    --
    Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
  8. Re:Wrong problem by Maeryk · · Score: 5, Informative

    Gypsum, plaster, brick, wood, steel are inert. If you can't handle these natural substances then too bad. Fate is not always kind. Life is not fair. Perhaps you have a psychological problem. Maybe a psychiatrist would be your best bet.

    BZZT:! Wrong answer. Gypsum is bad for anyone who has respiratory issues, because it is such a fine dust, and anyone with any kind of silica allergy has serioius problems with it.

    There are several woods that are downright toxic.
    Line a room with Cedar and make the house airtight and see how long you survive. The gas given off by it is not only toxic to Moths, it is toxic to people also. But the little blocks you keep in your closet dont release enough to sicken you, unless you are highly reactive to it.

    Bricks are also not inert all the time. The JIRR
    had an article on a brick in Boston that was carrying syphillus. (yes, that was meant to be humorous, but its true).

    Yeah.. I know i'm feeding a troll.. but your misinformation is staggering.

    Maeryk

    --
    Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
  9. Re:toxic housing: by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Your mother is a crackpot. and she is bringing you over to that side.

    Yes, MANY things can release som nasty gasses. but your wild ass remark about tyvek sealing it in is proof of a crackpot logic. Does your house have doors and windows? how about a properly installed heating system with the correct fresh air intake and heat exchanger? if the house was correctly designed you change over the air in the home at least 2-3 times and hour.

    The new home can have trace amounts of nasties in it's atmosphere, but by the time you move into it, a gas chromatagraph cannot even detect it. and it is alot more sensitive than anything you can gain access to "measure" how dangerous a home is.

    My father was a contractor, In college chemistry classes I wrote a thesis on such crackpot theories, and using standard science proved that it's all a bunch of hooey in a properly built home.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  10. Re:toxic housing: by pthisis · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is scary stuff! I have to personally wonder how much of the "cancer rise rates" are directly related to things like this.. especially the huge jump in Lung Cancer in the last 20 years. It certainly is not only due to smoking, as smoking levels have been decreasing steadily.

    Your assumption that there is a "huge jump in lung cancer in the last 20 years" is wrong, or at best misleading.

    Age-adjusted lung cancer rates have declined significantly from 1990-1999--age-adjusted rates are the only ones that are really worth looking at, they're what for instance the CDC and other bodies use since they account for increases in lifespan. Preliminary data for 2000-2002 seems to indicate this trend is continuing. If there is an increase over the last 20 years it's because an earlier increase (1983-1989) hasn't been wiped out yet.

    Remember that cancer rates lag smoking rates, too, so if smoking was halved today that would show up more and more over the next decade(s) rather than showing up immediately.

    http://seer.cancer.gov is one good resource for this data.

    Sumner

    --
    rage, rage against the dying of the light
  11. Healthy housing is simple really. by rolfpal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have built a few "Healthy Houses" for clients that were both environmentally sensitive and for non sensitive people.

    The simple fact of the matter is that buildings are made of stuff, and some of this stuff gets on our skin and into our lungs. If the stuff is bad for you, why use it. This problem is worse in energy efficient houses.

    Just the same as we know now that smoking is bad for you so:

    It makes sense to avoid building materials that produce toxic dust (silicone, asbestos, fiberglass)

    It makes sense to avoid materials that offgas formadehyde gas or other noxious organic compounds. Materials such as particle board, cheap carpet, urea formaldehyde foam insulation offgas significant amounts of formaldehyde, formaldehyde is good for some things, but not increasing your lifespan.

    It makes sense to minimize the potential growth of toxic or allergic natural pests such as mold, dust mites, spiders, ants and wasps.

    --
    nothing is real
  12. I can speak to this personally... by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I grew up with this sort of mindset presented as the normal way of life. My mother self-diagnosed herself with EI, MCS, Lupus, and other assorted disorders which never seemed to be confirmed by traditional medicine. This was always presented by her as proof of the shortcomings of the allopathic community.

    We lived out in the middle of the country, in a house made with a purposeful absence of traditional building materials. Non-treated wood, cedar shakes, etc. In spite of this, my mother seemed to grow constantly more sensitive to her environment, and put more and more safeguards in place to attempt to purify it. Ionic air filters were everywhere, including one in the car to attempt to reduce the effects of hydrocarbon emissions. She pursued a macrobiotic diet in order to attempt to balance her body and eliminate toxins taken in through food. Nothing seemed to improve the situation. Strangely(?) enough, as the years went by, both my sister and I both started exhibiting similar sets of symptoms.

    12 years later, I have a very strong feeling about what actually happened during that time of our lives. After I moved out, I started presenting a plethora of external insults to my body in the form of poor environmental conditions, a [comparably speaking] junk food diet, and ingestion of various chemical substances. I called it "college." :-) Strangely enough, the longer this went on, the less and less sensitive I became to my environment, to the food I ate, to the air I breathed. Now, as I sit here at my glue-ridden wooden desk in my carpeted office, breathing the air of one of the worst polluted cities in the country, the transformation is complete. I understand perfectly that people in my mother's mindset will say that I have "deadened my senses" to the surrounding toxins. My opinion is that, like any exercise in biodiversity, increased exposure to a variety of envioronmental substances makes one's system more able to cope with foreign invasions. The attempt to sterilize our living environment while growing up simply made us react more strongly to any small variation in that environment.

    As an addendum, my mother is still attempting to isolate herself from the known universe. In spite of this, she is still having the same difficulties. Given my experience over the past decade, I really have to wonder if the cure is a substantial portion of the disease.