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DRM and Threat Analysis

miladus writes "A timely and concise intervention by Ed Felten on the topic of DRM and the models used (or not used) to represent the threats to defeat. In brief, 2 models, one based on the potential of large scale redistribution of copyrighted files implying defeat of DRM if one user succeeds in bringing file inquestion to P2P network; the other, refers to the majority of users who would casually copy files. The implications of the schematization are most interesting because they explain some the logic behind the often confused and confusing rhetoric of DRM advocates and the necessity for rational grounding for technologies."

26 of 185 comments (clear)

  1. DRM by A+Swing+Dancing+Dork · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I am okay with DRM as long as I know who holds the keys. With todays Homeland security, I am not sure that I am the only key holder.

    1. Re:DRM by Joe+the+Lesser · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Constutional protections? I'm sorry. Didn't you get the memo? We're more concerned with terrorism than freedom now. Please change your mood accordingly.

      ~Management

      --
      "I only speak the truth"
      Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
    2. Re:DRM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Umm... Under DRM schemes you are not the one who holds the keys...thats kind of the point...

  2. Euphemisms by sploxx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From the article:
    "... leads to incoherent rhetoric ..."
    The only rhetoric I hear and see all the time are the many euphemisms used by the "DRM industry".

    drm - I best manage my rights by deciding freely what to do with the data on my PC

    copy *protection* - what does it protect?

    piracy - I am not on a ship in the carribean sea.

    etc.pp.

    1. Re:Euphemisms by oliverthered · · Score: 2, Insightful

      security - trust no-one, except me.

      TRUST - managed, we 'manage' your PC.

      "the consumer" - The tax payer.

      Music - Somthing that's too bad to dance to and too droll to humm.

      Rights - Something that hasn't been taken away yet.

      "consumer durables" - things that are made to break after you get them home, not before.

      Inovation - Anything that makes you fit into our little box.

      "Internet Experiance" - We always make it better.

      "the buyer" - The owner.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    2. Re:Euphemisms by ichimunki · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The term piracy is just too loaded-- no matter how common its usage may be it implies a criminal mindset and has connotations of pillaging or theft. Sharing, while it describes the act, also implies a legal and moral right to do that sharing-- a lot of the sharing going on is not Fair Use.

      Why don't we stick with accurate legal terms straight out of the lawbooks? I propose "copyright infringement" as a reasonable alternative. It points out that the act is illegal or otherwise disallowed and focuses on that as the basis for discussion. This way we can keep the discussion of the morality of copyrights, 3rd party duplication and derivation, and other such matters separate from the legal questions.

      Right now this debate is hugely clouded by the existing legal framework and the language used in its enforcement. The average American doesn't mind a little "piracy", but when questioned closely on this topic will probably have strongly held opinions that equate some level of "piracy" with theft-- which copyright infringment is not (theft, that is). If information, ideas, stories, visual expressions, etc, were rivalrous resources such that my use of them would prevent your use of them, then the word "theft" might be appropriate. But since this is not the case, words like "piracy" and "theft" serve only to cloud the issue.

      BTW, Slashbot hero Lawrence Lessig uses the word "thief" in his book "The Future of Ideas" to describe someone who would engage in whole copying of said book-- proving that even top notch IP lawyers who are presumably on "our" side have internalized this dangerous notion that an idea or an expression can be owned while still being shared.

      We are never going to resolve this issue (unless technocrats resolve it for us by conspiring to remove our right to Fair Use entirely) by tossing about loaded words. We need to divest the discussion of any moralizing whatsoever... unless you want to make the case that there is a moral basis for copyright (the Constitution merely mention promoting the Arts and Sciences, not some support for an inherent human right to idea ownership)-- which no one has done yet, except by taking the existing legal framework and describing it using loaded, moralistic words.

      --
      I do not have a signature
  3. MS wants to play both ways... by jkrise · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From the ref. article:
    "Either you choose the Napsterization model, and accept that your technology must be utterly bulletproof; or you choose the casual-copying model, and accept that you will not prevent Napsterization. You can't have it both ways"

    If you're a big enough monopoloy, you can PRETEND to have a bulletproof model - sell the model to the copyright holders, and sell (indirectly) a cracking tool to the mass market. Build yet another platform (Palladium) to break the latter tool.

    --
    If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
  4. Napsterization in the end by embedded_C · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The DRM advocates must choose the Napsterization Model: It is potentially the most damaging, in terms of profits.

    1. Re:Napsterization in the end by smd4985 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You are correct - when it comes down to it, a DRM advocate would have to make her system 'bulletproof'.

      Unfortunately, a 'bulletproof' DRM system infringes upon the long-standing principle of fair-use.

      So we have two possibilities:
      1) if DRM only solves the casual copying problem, the owners of the copyrights aren't happy.
      2) if the DRM system is 'bulletproof', the users of the copyright content aren't happy.

      Since there hasn't been an innovative compromise that defends against napsterization AND protects fair-use, no one is happy with the state of DRM.

      --
      smd4985
    2. Re:Napsterization in the end by micromoog · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nah, with a sensitive-enough pair of microphones you could get a hi-fi recording even from these earbuds. If the audio exists (which by definition it must to be copyrightable), there is a way to record it analog with near-perfect accuracy.

  5. napsterization easy to spot by A+Swing+Dancing+Dork · · Score: 2, Insightful

    it would seem to me that copanies whos software checks in with servers (much like the constant updating of firewall software or even MS OSes) could easily track when software has been propogated throught the Napsterization model. When someone downloads the latest update 100 times you can figure that it has been comprimized.

    Can someone with more knowledge on the subject please ream my argument. I, unlike some slashdoters, enjoy intelectual discourse.

  6. Fantastic by arvindn · · Score: 4, Insightful
    He has made a profound point in so few words. There can be no excuse for /.ers for not reading this article.

    I just want to make the observation that in real life you don't get to choose your threat, of course; both threat models are present to some extent. You can only talk about which threat model $protection_measure addresses and to what extent.

    Another thing is that *AA can hope to bring the Napster model closer to the small-scale copying model by persecuting individual users. Witness:

    The first, which I'll call the Napsterization model, assumes that there are many people, some of them technically skilled, who want to redistribute your work via peer-to-peer networks; and it assumes further that once your content appears on a p2p network, there is no stopping these people from infringing.
    On most p2p networks there is no anonymity and so there is still a chance of preventing this scenario. But all that changes when freenet comes into the picture. If it gets widely used, an ugly, long-drawn, bloody clash between "content creators" and "pirates" is inevitable. There are two possible outcomes at the end of it: 1) a draconian world ruled by the evil side 2) a severe reevaluation of our current notions on copyright, intellectual property, and revenue models. I dearly hope the clash occurs and the latter outcome results. The sooner we get out of the digital dark age the better.
    1. Re:Fantastic by st0rmshad0w · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think there would be a clash between "content creators" and "pirates", there hasn't been thusfar (with the exception of Metallica). Part of the issue with all this mess is we don't actually _hear_ from the creators, only the publishers, bankrollers etc... When will the artists ever stand up and take a side in all this? They certainly need to do so before any meaningful DRM is in place or it will be too late for an alternative.

  7. The problem with DRM'd music... by bert33 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    is that at some point the music has to be unencrypted. There is no way to prevent me from intercepting the signal being sent to my speakers, recording it and ripping it to mp3. The quality is not going to be that great, but that's par for the course on Kazaa. The same is true for movies... there will always be cam versions no matter what.

    So, if we accept the (logical) "Napsterization" model using any type of encryption/fair use deprivation sceme is going to be pointless when the music/film has to be percieved by the human eyes and ears in the same way it always has been.

    --
    These people look deep into my soul and assign me a number based on the order I joined.
    1. Re:The problem with DRM'd music... by bert33 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wouldn't that make all currently existing CDs unplayable on this new equipment?

      I'm not sure that would fly with the general public who only knows how to buy a CD and put it in their CD player. The RIAA/MPAA can get away with a lot as long as it doesn't effect Joe Public shopping at best buy for the newest Brittney Spears CD. Once it gets to the point that everyday non-technical people are effected is when the true backlash will begin.

      --
      These people look deep into my soul and assign me a number based on the order I joined.
    2. Re:The problem with DRM'd music... by jkabbe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And even THIS isn't foolproof. DRM speakers? Fine, just buy a quality set and then put a mike in front of them. The resulting recording is now free from DRM. DRM monitor? Just put a video camera in front of your monitor (just get the refresh rate right - maybe this isn't a problem with LCD?) and the movie is now free from DRM.

      And of course with the Napsterization model, once a single person does this it's "game over" for that protected work.

      If people are allowed to freely distribute information then DRM can never possibly work. Period.

  8. May I add... by infolib · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...that this is equally relevant to DRM skeptics.

    When we argue that DRM has no place in copyright law we need real understanding of its purpose and effect. Otherwise, we're just fighting windmills. Enough people doing that already...

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
  9. partly correct, but: by n3k5 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    1) if DRM only solves the casual copying problem, the owners of the copyrights aren't happy.
    2) if the DRM system is 'bulletproof', the users of the copyright content aren't happy.
    1) The users are even unhappy about DRM that just tries to solve the casual copying problem. Think CDs not playing in car CD-players etc.
    2) I haven't seen a bulletproof DRM system yet, not even a theoretical one.
    --
    but what do i know, i'm just a model.
  10. Re:DRM works by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    It doesn't even work in a monopoly. What software companies don't understand is that casual copying is a form of price discrimination that benefits the seller. Consider:

    1 customer is willing to pay $20
    4 customers are willing to pay $5

    With DRM, you can charge $20 and make $20 or charge $5 and make $25. But without DRM, you can charge $20 and make $40, because the one customer who is willing to pay $20 will buy his own copy, and the other 4 customers will chip in and buy another copy for $20 and pirate it amongst themselves.

  11. Napster, Casual Copying, and Capacitance by Crash+Culligan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The talk of two copying models and the level of protection needed to minimize each is profound. It speaks of a deep wisdom which many have overlooked.

    But I want to add something to it. Everyone here knows what a capacitor is, right? It's two metal plates separated by a little insulator. When enough of a charge builds up between those two plates, the current will briefly jump the gap through the insulator.

    The same applies to the Napsterizing/Casual-Copying model. Under casual copying, people make copies and distribute them to one or two friends. With Napsterization, one copy is made and broadcast to a great many people who want it.

    The two are separated by a small gap. Will someone make one or two copies, or make it available for hundreds to download? That's where the capacitance comes in. If there's enough pressure, sooner or later a piece of media will jump the gap from casual copying and appear somewhere for everyone to grab a copy of.

    What affects capacitance between the two? Well, the better the content is, the more people will want to show it to other people. The easier it is to show to other people, the more people will do so. P2P software today has cut the gap considerably. DRM is an attempt to add insulation and keep things from making the jump from casual copying to mass distribution.

    It's been demonstrated, preventing any copies from being made is theoretically impossible, but the Content Cartels continue to try to prevent it. Likewise, preventing the jump to from casual copying to underground mass distribution is nearly impossible, but the Content Cartels continue suing every P2P, university, or network service that doesn't outlaw it outright.

    It'd be interesting to see statistics on which results in more copies being made: P2P distribution or casual copying. Because it seems that P2P networks do more damage, but are much harder to prevent. And, in fact, if a DRM is put into place which prevents casual copying, I could see MORE people going to P2P systems to get copies from those who CAN break the "anti-fair-use technologies."

    Thoughtful as the piece on different types of copying threat is, it becomes moot as the different types come closer together.

    --
    You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert until you read it in the original Klingon.
  12. The Core Fallacies of DRM by Catiline · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Felten's comments come close to, but do not quite repeat, the twin comments I have been making to friends about Digital Rights Manglement for the past year.

    First, Digital Rights Manglement schemes assume that the control over use of media offered to producers due to the virtue of being digital -- controls which they have never before possed in any other medium -- outstrip the value of fair use rights for their entire [potential] audience, despite the twin facts that fair use rights are established in law, and that [some of] the controls suggested violate other legal doctrines such as first sale. This alone is enough to dissuade me from supporting any such schemes.

    Secondly, even if you are a prolific creator -- such as Steven King or the Beatles -- you cannot create as much media output as you have input. Even for a creator, the fair use rights lost to DRM will outweigh the additional rights gained. Any way you slice the question, the public rights lost to Manglement will outweigh the private ones gained, because even the few beneficiaries also lose -- on a scale far larger than they gain. (The rest of us just lose.)

  13. Technical versus legal issues. by fjpereira · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I don't think those who have been supporting DRM are very interested in the technical issues around it.

    They are just interested in having some sort of encription system and then have laws to protect it.

    It just doesn't mather if the technical aspects of the encription methods are strong or weak.

    They just want to have laws to be able to go after anybody suspect of breaking the encription systems.


    My advice to all the people doing research on ecription and security is this: just be very carefull..

  14. I was too bleak. by infolib · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'd like an easy technological solution, but we don't have it, and we're not going to.

    In fact, I suspect we do have one now: Easy and cheap online sale.

    Smart content providers will beat the pirates on ease-of-use, not to mention good-conscience. It's not perfect, but I'm generally optimistic that it'll be good enough. While waiting for the un-smart content providers to die off we should fight to stop copyright law from becoming too badly "fixed".

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
  15. Re:Huh? What's this guy on? by Dyolf+Knip · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes, they killed Napster. They managed to get rid of AudioGalaxy, too. But FreeNet, Kazaa, WinMX, and any P2P systems likely to show up in the future are comparatively unkillable. The killing off of the first few centralized sharing networks accomplished nothing except to make 'the enemy' harder to get next time around. They can't possibly affect them anymore, so instead they announce their uncopyable (and often unplayable) CDs as the solution to all copying problems. Not only is it a bad solution, it's a bad solution being applied to an entirely different problem. Similarly, a hardware/OS-level DRM-ed music file will only work until it is broken once, after which it gets shared as an ordinary unprotected file and the solution is worthless, inconveniencing only the non-sharing customers.

    --
    Dyolf Knip
  16. This can be generalized by CyberLife · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The point made by the author can be generalized to any form of problem solving. When approaching a situation, you must first understand the problem before you can even begin to formulate an adequate solution. In my experience, this is the #1 thing that people do wrong in engineering (software or otherwise). Why just the other day, I was conversing with a collegue who was trying to decide between two ways of structuring a web application that would affect how the client used it. I asked him how the client currently does their business. He didn't know.

  17. Re:DRM -- NEVER okay with DRM by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I am okay with DRM as long as I know who holds the keys. With todays Homeland security, I am not sure that I am the only key holder.

    I am NEVER okay with DRM. As long as someone else holds the keys, they can change the rules anytime afterwards.

    Consider, you buy DRM protected music this year.

    Next year, through spending lots of money in Washington D.C., the industries are are granted the legal right to specify that the music you bought cannot be copied to any other form, and your DRM is automatically updated to enforce that without ever asking your consent.

    The year after that they get a law where your purchased music will expire after ten years of use. Just won't play after that.

    And the year after that, instead of unlimited plays allowed within your remaining eight years (the ten year limit was made retroactive, of course), you now have to pay a few pennies for each play. And btw, it now expires in seven (for you four) years.

    You can't do anything because they own the keys and can change the conditions of their use any time they wish (true of any DRM system, to deal with compromised keys, if nothing else). Your only recourse is to the law -- and they've already preempted that route.

    Let's be clear here: DRM IS NEVER OKAY. Got that?

    And if you're foolish to think the rules never change on something after you've bought it, look at how copyrights on old music and movies continue to be extended beyond ever expiring? Even now, copyrighted material first published before you were born will never expire in your lifetime.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."