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Exactly One Kilogram Of Silicon

Ed Pegg Jr writes "You may know of the importance of 299792458 for length, and 9192631770 for time. However, the official standard for weight is still a block of platinum/iridium made a hundred years ago. A group of scientists from the Avogadro Project are hoping to change that, though, by producing a perfect sphere of ultrapure silicon."

32 of 95 comments (clear)

  1. A perfect sphere? by ptaff · · Score: 5, Funny

    A perfect sphere would imply fractional quarks and fractional parts of quarks, and ... an infinite precision!

    Pi is still irrational, isn't it?

    Don't tell me the all my math teachers lied to me!

    1. Re:A perfect sphere? by sporty · · Score: 4, Funny
      A perfect sphere would imply fractional quarks and fractional parts of quarks, and ... an infinite precision!

      Pi is still irrational, isn't it?


      And worrying on the quark level might make you a little irrational too ;) There's always room for error...er.. jello.
      --

      -
      ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only

  2. Honest Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What exactly is the benefit of having an object with a mass of exactly one kilogram if we already know, mathematically, how much one kilogram is?

    1. Re:Honest Question by qengho · · Score: 4, Informative

      What exactly is the benefit of having an object with a mass of exactly one kilogram

      To calibrate scales.

    2. Re:Honest Question by Istealmymusic · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes.

      --
      "The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
    3. Re:Honest Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      How do they keep the perfect sphere from rolling off the scale?

    4. Re:Honest Question by hplasm · · Score: 3, Funny
      Doughnuts. Is there nothing they can't do?

      You put one on the table, and the perphect sfere sits on the hole.

      --
      ...and he grinned, like a fox eating shit out of a wire brush.
  3. Next they need to work on NULL pointer checks by devphil · · Score: 3, Funny


    I'm tired of reassuring the coding standards people that, yes, such-and-such a pointer has been tested against the platinum/iridium void* kept in a vault in Paris.

    --
    You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
  4. Old news by L.+VeGas · · Score: 4, Funny

    producing a perfect sphere of ultrapure silicon

    Pam Anderson has already cornered this market.
    Ohhhh, silicon...

  5. Stick it to the French by An.+(Coward) · · Score: 5, Funny

    We'll come up with our own standard of mass, and we'll call it the Freedom Sphere. So put that in your pipe and smoke it, Jacques Chirac! With your burned lips!

  6. why kilogram? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    the SI unit for length is the metre - not the kilometre

    why is the unit for mass the kilogram when it should more logically be the gram?

    using the gram might be easier to accurately measure too.

    1. Re:why kilogram? by RobKow · · Score: 3, Informative

      Consistency of units we already have.

      We've got cgs (centimeter-gram-second) and MKS (meter-kilogram-second) systems, and at least one more.

      If you're not satisfied, make your own. And watch the rush to adopt it!

      I'm partial to MKS myself; less silly multiplication by powers of ten to correct units.

    2. Re:why kilogram? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Neither system is consistent in the sense I suspect the original poster meant. Both systems mix purportedly "basic" units with a different sort of unit that requires a prefix, despite the fact that it's supposed to be basic:

      centimeter - gram - second
      meter - kilogram - second

      It's just a matter of names. Logically, either system should be all "basic" units, with no prefixes. If a meter happened to be defined as 1/100th the current length, then you'd have the "meter gram second" system for the first case, and it would make more sense.

      Of course, you still have the problem that a kilo of water is a cubic decimeter, not a cubic meter. So in the MKS system, you'd have to have a "gram" weighing rather inconveniently 1000 times as much, and a meter 1/10th the size, to make this "meter gram second" system more consistent.

      The real answer, of course, lies in that word "convenient". The metric system, despite the claims of some proponents, is not really particularly inherently logical. Sure, it uses powers of ten. But the units themselves were chosen completely arbitrarily. And they were chosen simply to be relatively close to units already in use at the time - yards, bushels, pounds, quarts, and so on, because those were convenient sizes people were used to, not because there was some overriding scientific reason for choosing those sizes. (1/10^7 of the distance from Paris to the North Pole, indeed. Talk about chauvinisitic... as if there were a fundamental scientific principle rooted in the location of Paris!)

      A truly "scientific" system would have units sized on fundamental constants - speed of light, Planck's constant, permitivity/permissivity of free space, all those sorts of numbers. You'd know you had such a system because they would be nice round numbers rather than arbitary long strings of digits as they are in the current metric (or English) system.

      And when it comes to prefixes, you could always argue that the English system is far more logical in the age of computers. The metric system goes by powers of ten, which happens to be convenient for manual calculation. But the English system goes by powers of two; e.g, 16 cups = 8 pints = 4 quarts = 2 half gallon = 1 gallon. Much nicer for computers; no roundoff error there in the floating point processor, and you can change units by a simple shift operation rather than the hugely more time-consuming multiplication by ten. Same logic, different base.

    3. Re:why kilogram? by david+duncan+scott · · Score: 4, Funny
      There is a system based on fundamental constants, the Planck Units.

      Still, just try getting a .75 centipace wrench. You can't even order them, and without that, just how the hell are you supposed to repair the flux capacitor?

      --

      This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander

    4. Re:why kilogram? by Idarubicin · · Score: 3, Interesting
      But the English system goes by powers of two; e.g, 16 cups = 8 pints = 4 quarts = 2 half gallon = 1 gallon. Much nicer for computers; no roundoff error there in the floating point processor, and you can change units by a simple shift operation rather than the hugely more time-consuming multiplication by ten. Same logic, different base.

      Yes, 3 feet to the yard (for surveyors, 66 feet to the chain), 1760 yards to the mile...

      Please, tell me how to use a shift operation to divide by 1760. :P The other nice thing about metric is the consistent prefixes. There is one MKS symbol for length (m), not many (in, ft, yd, mi...) and it can be associated with a set of prefixes (micro, milli, kilo, mega, etc.) that have consistent meaning across all metric units. For us humans, it is easy to find a unit that lets you express values in "comfortable" form--living cells are on the order of 10 micrometers across, not 0.00001 meters; it's 100 kilometers to Grandma's house, not 100000 meters. And since it's in easy powers of ten, I can tell you immediately that you can line up 10^10 cells along the road to Grandma's, if you want to know.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
    5. Re:why kilogram? by dublin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There are good reasons to hate the metric system, other than because it's French.

      Case in point - I was working with pressure instrumentation this week, and have a new appreciation of what absolutely *insane* units have to be used by the poor folks that prefer metric.

      I'm talking, of course about that riduculous unit the Pascal, that defames the name of one of history's great scientists and thinkers.

      The idiot who decided that a pressure as ridiculously low as one Newton per square meter was a useful unit of pressure should have been stood up against the wall and summarily shot. That such a thing exists as an ISO standard seems to fit the inherent silliness of every ISO-developed standard I've ever encountered.

      I'm only half joking. This is such a ridiculously low pressure that any sort of real-world engineering use requires kilo-, or more likely megaPascals in order to express it. To put this silliness in perspective, realize that the very low pressure of 1 Atmosphere is equivalent to 101,325 Pascals. No wonder the civilized world calls it 14.7 psi instead... :-)

      --
      "The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last ./ post
  7. BILLY! by teamhasnoi · · Score: 4, Funny
    How many times have I told you NOT to play with your perfect sphere of ultrapure silicon outside the house! It's the official standard of weight and here YOU are rolling it through a SANDBOX! No telling how many nanograms of mass you've abraded off of it!

    Get in here this INSTANT, and bring it with you! When your father gets home you are going to be grounded, young man! Two weeks to the PICOSECOND by the atomic clock in the kitchen. Now go stand in the corner, and NO LEANING! You'll probably throw the wall out of plumb, or expand the angle to 90.7632+1E degrees or something, you troublemaker!

  8. To Mr. Pegg by Captain+Nitpick · · Score: 5, Informative
    However, the official standard for weight is still a block of platinum/iridium made a hundred years ago.

    ITYM mass. SI has no unit for weight. There's the newton for force, but it is not defined in terms of gravity. It is also not a SI base unit.

    --
    But then again, I could be wrong.
    1. Re:To Mr. Pegg by big_groo · · Score: 3, Funny
      Directly from the PDF:

      2.1.1.2 Unit of Mass (kilogram)

      The international prototype of the kilogram, made of platinum-iridium, is kept at the BIPM under conditions specified by the 1st CGPM in 1889 (CR, 34-38) when it sanctioned the prototype and declared:

      'This prototype shall henceforth be considered to be the unit of mass.'

      The 3rd CGPM (1901: CR, 70), in a declaration intended to end the ambiguity in popular usage concerning the word 'weight' confirmed that:

      The kilogram is the unit of mass; it is equal to the mass of the international prototype of the kilogram.

    2. Re:To Mr. Pegg by Captain+Nitpick · · Score: 3, Interesting
      What do you think a newton is? The force exerted by one gram begin accelerated at one G (or its weight at one G).

      A newton is defined as 1 kg-m/s^2. As the AC already stated, you're off by roughly a factor of 100, and even that isn't exact.

      --
      But then again, I could be wrong.
  9. New Austin Powers movie plot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I've always have this strange idea of a Austin Powers movie where DR EVIL has stolen the "Kilogram" and held the entire world hostage for one trillion pesos.

    What an idea.

  10. meter nit by yerricde · · Score: 5, Informative

    1/10^7 of the distance from Paris to the North Pole,

    Actually, the meter was defined as roughly 1e-7 of the distance from the equator to the North Pole along Paris's meridian, making the earth roughly 4e7 m (40,000 km) around.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  11. Did anyone else think of... by AEton · · Score: 5, Funny
    It's the new, improved, Happy Fun Silicon Ball!
    Warning: Pregnant women, the elderly and children under 10 should avoid prolonged exposure to Happy Fun Silicon Ball.
    Discontinue use of Happy Fun Silicon Ball if any of the following occurs:
    • Chipping
    • Scratching
    • Spontaneous degeneration
    • Conversion from matter to energy (E = mc^2 = c^2 energy!)
    • Sudden change in mass of everything around you
    Happy Fun Silicon Ball has been shipped to our troops in Kuwait and is also being dropped by our warplanes on Iraq. Our Westernization process of SI imperialism will defeat them!
    When not in use, Happy Fun Silicon Ball should be returned to its special container and kept under refrigeration...
    Do not taunt Happy Fun Silicon Ball.

    Happy Fun Silicon Ball
    Accept no substitutes!
    --
    We recently had heard in the office over one of the Yellow Machine that's made by Anthology Solutions.
  12. Why does it have to be a SPHERE? by DancingSword · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Is there some inherent problem with other geometries?

    Like, say, the cylinder ( as the original kilogram were )

    Isn't machining a sphere, perfectly, more .. error-prone?

    --
    Messages to/for me ( in me journal )
    1. Re:Why does it have to be a SPHERE? by sarabob · · Score: 4, Informative

      as TFA says, it's to avoid having edges which can be chipped etc.

  13. Please Correct me by smurf975 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I always thought one kilogram is one liter of pure water?

    If I'm correct what is the point? They should worry about what makes a liter and what is pure water.

    --
    -- I don't buy it, I grow it.
  14. Okay, you asked for it by Noren · · Score: 5, Informative
    A kilogram is a unit of mass and a liter is a unit of volume. (You probably knew that...)

    Water expands and contracts as the temperature and pressure around it change, even in the range where it is still liquid.

    It turns out that liquid water at 1 atmosphere pressure is most dense at about 4 degrees Centigrade, where its density is 0.9999750 g/cm^3. at closer to room temperature- at 22 degrees C- its density is only .9977735 g/cm^3. It never actually gets up to 1 g/cm^3 the unit system was originally designed to use, I think because of the limits of accuracy of measurements when the current definitions of individual units were set. In defining a unit, all those significant figures are relevant, so for these purposes the above are unacceptably big differences.

    Measuring mass by what the volume of water is would be more complicated and less accurate than the current system. Besides, a liter is trickier to define than a kilogram, so it'd likely be the other way around if defined in terms of each other.

    1. Re:Okay, you asked for it by dublin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It turns out that liquid water at 1 atmosphere pressure is most dense at about 4 degrees Centigrade, where its density is 0.9999750 g/cm^3. at closer to room temperature- at 22 degrees C- its density is only .9977735 g/cm^3. It never actually gets up to 1 g/cm^3 the unit system was originally designed to use, I think because of the limits of accuracy of measurements when the current definitions of individual units were set.

      This extremely unusual quirk of water (along with its inverse density as a solid) is one of the chief reasons that stable oceans are pretty much impossible with other substances, despite waht science fiction authors like to imagine: Because water is densest at 4 C, the entire volume of a body of water has to first reach that temperature (since it sinks to the bottom at that temp) before freezing at the top. Any other scenario results in bad things happening, like, say, all bodies of water freezing solid, making the continuation of life through winter rather difficult for aqautic species... One more reason to question whether naturalistic notions of origins really hold up under close scrutiny. (Don't even get me started on eclipses...)

      --
      "The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last ./ post
  15. that won't help much by u19925 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    the problem of mass standard is not that it was made 100 years ago. the problem is that there is no way to describe it so that it can be reproduced independently. as one of the famous scientist said, "we can communicate our definition of length and time to aliens 1000 light years away (if they are listening us), but we can't tell them what we mean by 1 kilo".

    Secondly, it doesn't matter either what exactly is 1 kilogram. what matters is some reference atomic mass and then pick up Avogadro number (based on existing 1 kilo mass) and then get rid of the existing standard. this would allow independent reproduction (e.g. 1 kg is equivalent of 6.02...... x 10^23 atoms of Oxygen 16 in certain energy state. this scheme too has problem. there is no practical way of verifying that you have met the standard definition. so, two scientists can argue that each is possesing exact 1 kg and this cannot be arbitrated.

    1. Re:that won't help much by Ian+Jefferies · · Score: 3, Informative

      "we can communicate our definition of length and time to aliens 1000 light years away (if they are listening us), but we can't tell them what we mean by 1 kilo"

      And then:

      what matters is some reference atomic mass and then pick up Avogadro number (based on existing 1 kilo mass) and then get rid of the existing standard.

      Doesn't the use of an Avagadro number of atoms, of specified number of protons and neutrons, exactly solve the weight description problem? You've got a point about ensuring that the ensemble of atoms doesn't interract with anything chemically, spontaneously decay, or be affected by a cosmic radiation event. However the existing platinum/iridium standard weight is subject to those same effects, and is (very) slowly evaporating away anyway!

      The issue you're probably thinking of is transmitting the identification of left and right to aliens, consistant with our own usage. Martin Gardner has a very accessible discussion of this in his book "The New Ambidextrous Universe", and it has deeper implications from CPT (Charge, Parity, Time) symmetry in physics. The problem wasn't found to have a solution until C.S. Wu found a violation in CPT symmetry in 1957, allowing left and right to be uniquely identified.

      Ian.

      --
      A physicist is an atom's way of thinking about atoms
  16. Re:Diamond by SEE · · Score: 4, Informative

    Not only do diamonds' surfaces oxidize, they're pretty easy to burn, and only metastable in any case.

    Diamonds are *not* forever.

  17. Mathematics != Real World by aricusmaximus · · Score: 5, Informative

    A good question. The reason is that a kilogram is not a mathematical object (which is pure idea). It is a scientific object (which can and should have a real world representation).

    Pi does not exist in the real world. If you don't agree, show me an object in the real world that has exactly pi length, weight, or volume.

    By contrast, the kilogram is an idea (an agreement really), that leads to a real world object (bar of platinum, sphere of silicon) that people can test their measuring devices against.

    Ask yourself this: if you and your friend had two scales, how would you know which one is more accurate?

    Answer: you would test them against a scale you agreed was more accurate.

    But, in order to test for accuracy, you need a very "accurate" object. You need something that everyone agrees weighs a certain amount (say a kilogram?) And your "most accurate" scale had better exactly weigh that object as exactly one kilogram.

    That's basically what calibration is: you take an object you declare to be 1 kg (or 1 g) and then you set your scale to indicate it as such. Obviously, there is more to it than that, but that's the very basics.

    Science relies tremendously on these types of standards. One of the biggest (and unsung) "wins" of the 20th century was the tremendous increase in the objective standards of accuracy. Imagine trying to build a microprocessor if everything was designed in terms of hand lengths or feet lengths of the various contractors. Without increasingly tight, objective standards of measurement, modern science and technology would not exist.

    Ironically enough, I'm a mathematician. I would encourage you to talk to a professional scientist or engineer and ask them about it.