TiVo++ from India

charmer writes "According to a story in rediff, a company in India, Divinet Technologies, have developed a set top box that plays video cds, offers sms, email, chat, plays mp3s, acts as a game box, has a web cam, video on demand, and a digital VCR, and has a multilingual interface (a necessity in India.) And it looks pretty good too :-) No pricing given though."

Comments

I have to wonder...

[Yanna]

if this is one of the dreaded consequences of outsourcing jobs to India.

I mean, the development of these type of technology used to be the patrimony of the US. Later on, it shifted to Far East (Japan) and now we see really cool gadgets being developed in India.

A sign of what's to come? Is this the result of the US losing their position as main providers of R&D? What will be left afterwards? An economy of service?

Re:I have to wonder...

[jkrise]

"this is one of the dreaded consequences of outsourcing jobs to India."

Oddly enough, American technology is to a large extent, devleoped by Indians. Consider this: about 30% of Microsoft employees are Indians. Similarly, NASA has more than 25% Inidans.Outside of Seattle, the only other development centers for MS is in Hyderabad, Inida and Israel.
Secondly, remember that American Corporate success depends on countries like India for their markets. Why'd you think Bill Gates spent 4 days in India? Philanthropy? AIDS aids? Think again.

"I mean, the development of these type of technology used to be the patrimony of the US."

See what this has led to... most of the innovation in the US suffers from this self-centred outlook. The Media-Center PC edition is an example. Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic etc. have now joined to put Linux onto their electronics. American tech focusses on 'lock-in' and 'lock-out' rather than 'features' and open-ness. Take GPS, Qualcomm, Microsoft and Adobe as examples.
Cellphones within the US are generally a few generations behind Europe, Japan and even India!!

" Is this the result of the US losing their position as main providers of R&D?"

On the contrary, it's the result of pampering a few US entities for actions which Americans wouldn't stand for, from other nations. I'd name Microsoft, Adobe, Qualcomm etc. in this list.
It's also a result of the American education system, though I'd need to write a lot to explain this.

"What will be left afterwards?"

The fruits of what's been sown. For starters, I'd suggest Americans need to be more understanding, tolerant and mature. There's no need to get angry at the French or paranoid about job-loss to third-world Indians. A little introspection will go a long way.

Re:I have to wonder...

[cioxx]

I mean, the development of these type of technology used to be the patrimony of the US. Later on, it shifted to Far East (Japan) and now we see really cool gadgets being developed in India.

Do you seriously think that US companies could not have invented a convergence box like the one above? Absolutely not. Afterall, US perfected the use of TiVos and other flavors of PVRs, which got hacked and modified initially. Then if you remember, TiVo bent under the Advertising Corporations' pressure and went from a hacker-friendly box preducer to an essentially a closed, DRM device producer with Series 2. You can't easily hack it anymore to fetch the data, modify software, etc.

So this move from lobbies and corporations who felt that TiVo was cutting into their advertising pie, seriously hampered the ability of producers to put out better, cheaper, open devices. No one is willing to give market something which would be designated to please both the population and the corporate entities who feel they're getting ripped off (For the record, I believe these allegations hold no ground). There are no companies dumb enough to go against already-established PVR makers, additionally opening second and third fronts with DVD and console producers in the competition department. MPAA, RIAA, DMCA and other 4-letter evils will rain down on this producer till they crack under pressure.

So yeah. You should first and formost blame the corporate forces for slowing down technology for the sake of few millions in advertising revenue.

That's my take on it.

Re:I have to wonder...

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed.

Western capitalist markets are based on continuous long term growth. Yet it is plain obvious that the markets cannot grow forever. This means that system is fundamentally flawed and will have to be modified in the future towards conservation of resources, controlled markets and zero-growth economies.

How this will be achieved, however, is unclear since the public has been brainwashed to believe that (representative) democracy and capitalism are the same thing. Just try saying that there is something wrong about capitalism or the reckless consumption based societies and you are immediatelly labelled as a luddite and communist who is hell-bent on replacing democracy with a Soviet-like dictatoriship.

Re:I have to wonder...

[Anonymous Coward]

"I mean, the development of these type of technology used to be the patrimony of the US. Later on, it shifted to Far East (Japan) and now we see really cool gadgets being developed in India."

RIAA/MPAA is a reason this.

It would be very easy for US company to put ASIC for enconding/decoding MPEG-4, off the shelf CPU, standard replacable IDE hard-drive, ability to fetch program information via XMLTV, Linux, ethernet connection, etc.. in a single box.

Re:I have to wonder...

[evilviper]

since our economy is based on growth alone, and we have nowhere to grow anymore, we've only got one way to go: down.

You are right to a point. The American economy has gradually shifted to servicing only the get-rich-quick markets. Now, the US may be in for a serious depression, but I don't think it's appropriate to call it the end of the line. Companies will simply (*GASP*) have to go back to making good products that consumers want, then all will be right with the world once again(tm). Until then, enjoy the slide.

Re:Stretching

[rtmfm]

The cable momopoly would never allow it.

CDAC setup to build supercomputers

[sonamchauhan]

... if this is one of the dreaded consequences of outsourcing jobs to India.

Hmm - No. Not due to job outsourcing... but its certainly a result of technology that was born in the US.

I said "No" because the people behind this are (from the article) "founder members of CDAC, the brains behind India's PARAM-supercomputer". If I recall correctly, CDAC was setup by the Government of India in the late 80s as a direct consequence of the US *withholding* export of supercomputers to India for fear it would be used for defense research (more specifically, nuclear research). As a result, the CDAC people built massively parallel supercomputers from off-the-shelf CPUs (IIRC, they still used American CPUs - off-the-shelf 8086s (?) to begin with). They have some very cluey guys with a lot of experience born from research efforts like creating the complex electronics for interfacing supercomputers. Now it seems some of those people are moving to the private sector - kind of like with Govt. spending jumpstarting the computer revolution in the US.

A sign of what's to come? Is this the result of the US losing their position as main providers of R&D? What will be left afterwards? An economy of service?

I think every country needs a *balance* of free trade and protection of weaker industries. A "we can sell to you, but you can't sell to us" mentality is ultimately is bad for everyone concerned; from what I understand, 2/3rds of US income derives from exports.

At the end of the day, I'm sure your leaders have an eye on industry and employment figures. If not, you elect new ones.

Hardware Costs

[ShooterNeo]

The only thing that bugs me is that while tech miracles happen, how can this thing do all these features effectively on cheap hardware? To do games and video on demand requires reliable disk drives or high end processing hardware.

Also, how is the networking the boxes depend upon better or cheaper or immune to the same problems with rolling out broadband or cable access, elsewhere? Surely it requires the same expensive upgrades to the wiring and nodes as any other networking upgrade, the expense having slowed down adoption of this kind of tech.

But the real problem is the software, the enormous virtual machine required to do all of these things. Programming software to do all the listed features well has taken years, and still isn't finished. I suspect this machine is not nearly as neat or as useful as the PC you are reading this on, especially if your PC is reasonably recent and has a fast, unrestricted, network connection.

Re:Links to da Box

[watzinaneihm]

Don't get all humpy about the box. Remember the simputer? Never really took off. A friend off mine has it, and works too slow. (dirt cheap tho). Here again we have a link to a website which says someone has a box which can do everything except wash dishes. No hardware info, No techspecs except a lot of acronyms, and most importantly no pricing info,
If this thing works at all, I think it must be in beta phase of implementation (the site claims the box alone has been beta teseted). Don't expect it within the next 2-3 years.

This is not a standalone unit - don't order this.

[yo303]

Most of the functionality of this device comes from the way it works as part of a network; the inexpensive client receives services from the central server. A WICE box won't work if it's by itself.

From the article (you did, read it, didn't you?)

"It consists of a Distribution Module (DM) box installed in every building or multi-dwelling unit (MDU), with a WICE box in every user's house. Each DM supports 16 users. A single wire brings you all the services."

If you did buy one of these, you'd have to run that wire all the way back to India.

yo.

Forget about Top-Down socialism

[ArcSecond]

I am convinced that socialist goals are valid: why NOT organize social activities so that you build up social "wellness" in balance with a development of capital?

The two classic problems, as I see them come from BOTH sides... Capital is mis-defined, and Social planning for the "Common Good" makes no sense when it is being carried out by a priveleged class of managers.

So , redefine Capital as EVERYTHING you need to produce: ie, traditional capital + the bioinfrastructure we need for life on earth. How can you produce in a vacuum (literally). If you were on the ISS you would take into account the effect your activities were having on your life support system, so why not Here On Earth?

As for Socialism, it has mostly been a lie. Most of what passes for "Socialism" is just an extension of the Capitalist Welfare State. Ie: let's have social programs run by bureacracy and private corporations. Meh. How are you going to guarantee the effectiveness of such programs if their MAIN stakeholders are SYSTEMATICALLY EXCLUDED from developing vision, mission, policy, and decision-making? How? You aren't.

So, I would call the direction I am heading as Libertarian Socialism or just plain Anarchism. A social "order" based around ecological and democratic principles. A diminishing of hierarchy, and an activist-lead process.

I don't have illusions about this happening any time soon. It is a movement, not a destination. Anarchists should NOT be utopians, or discordians, or terrorists. This is too serious for that kind of kid stuff.

Re:Not quite there yet

[The Cydonian]

While I agree largely with you, I'm more interested in the general trend of things. Earlier, in more socialist times, we used to have, say, a single government-controlled Electronic Corporation of India Limited (ECIL) developing a decrepit television box that showed more static than actual TV pictures. Now we have a whole lot of other startups in Bangalore, Hyderabad and other places actually innovating stuff.[1]

Yes, it's important to remain sceptical until technological innovation can be converted to actual wealth creation, but we're getting there. Pretty soon.

[1]- Ironical of course, that this thing has actually been developed in a government-linked laboratory.

What about usability?

[lightspawn]

The most amazing thing about TiVo is that every keypress has the effect you'd expect. This company actually cares about usability. Most companies don't.

Before trying this thing for a couple of hours, I can't even be sure I'd be willing to use this thing for free.